Abortion

[9sublime]

Apparently, this glitch found it necessary to delete my posts only.

Maybe they never posted in the first place because of a technical issue?

If you really want I'll take a screenshot of the page and then take a screenshot of a page with deleted posts.

However, you should probably question what possible motivations I could have for lying about this on a small internet forum?

 

[numinus]

However, you should probably question what possible motivations I could have for lying about this on a small internet forum?

Maybe you hate my guts?

 

[bewitched]

Maybe you hate my guts?

you've been aborted.

 

[numinus]

you've been aborted.

I have no doubt that, left to your own devices, you'd do just that within an instant and without remorse.

 

[palerider]

it's not a baby at 8 weeks.
a zygote, yes. baby. no.
some people can't get past that fact.

You need to learn some real basic biology. If the sort of complete misunderstanding you just noted is what you have based your position on, then everything you believe is a lie.

We are zygotes for only about a day. After that, division picks up pretty rapidly. By 8 weeks, when most abortions are performed, it is a baby that is being killed. By 8 weeks, we have a face. We have fingerprints, and we have footprints. By 8 weeks, if you touch an unborn with a sharp object it will react very quickly and attempt to pull away. In fact, neuroscientists have been saying for decades that any abortion performed at 8 weeks or later shoud be done with a general anesthetic being given to the child because it very likely feels the pain of being torn to pieces more exquisitely than we could.

You need to get past your misunderstandings and get a grip on what abortion is really about.

 

[palerider]

no, actually it's the law. abortion is legal.

Irregardless of what the law says, unborns are human beings from the time fertilization is complete. You know, at one time, the law said that blacks weren't acutally human beings and it was as legal to own one of them as it is to own a dog. Do you believe that just because the law says that a thing is legal that it is, by definition, right?

so women have rights over their own body. [/quoter]

There are any number of laws that tell you exactly what you may and may not do with, put into, or take out of your body. And with regard to abortion, it isn't your body that I am concerned with. It isn't your body that is being torn limb from limb or burned to death in salt water. I have no problem with what you do with your body but abortion is about another body entirely.

your opinion of life doesn't matter.['/quote]

Typical. You obviously don't know what you are talking about but my opinions don't matter. I suppose that you would have said that those who were opposed to slavery had opinions that didn't matter as well.

the problem with this issue is that so many people take it emotionally.
it's a physical issue. no emotion involved. very simple.

It is a biological and legal issue. My position is based in the law and developmental biology. Unlike yours, which is based on lies, misinformation, and abject ignorance.

 

[bewitched]

Irregardless of what the law says, unborns are human beings from the time fertilization is complete. You know, at one time, the law said that blacks weren't acutally human beings and it was as legal to own one of them as it is to own a dog. Do you believe that just because the law says that a thing is legal that it is, by definition, right?

so women have rights over their own body. [/quoter]

There are any number of laws that tell you exactly what you may and may not do with, put into, or take out of your body. And with regard to abortion, it isn't your body that I am concerned with. It isn't your body that is being torn limb from limb or burned to death in salt water. I have no problem with what you do with your body but abortion is about another body entirely.

your opinion of life doesn't matter.['/quote]

Typical. You obviously don't know what you are talking about but my opinions don't matter. I suppose that you would have said that those who were opposed to slavery had opinions that didn't matter as well.



It is a biological and legal issue. My position is based in the law and developmental biology. Unlike yours, which is based on lies, misinformation, and abject ignorance.

law is law.
your opinion doesn't change law.
I'm glad for the law as I have seen women die from unwanted pregnancy and others thrive from abortions that didn't hold them back from financial dependence, male abuse, and murder.

 

[bewitched]

I have no doubt that, left to your own devices, you'd do just that within an instant and without remorse.

nah, you're kinda cute.

 

[top gun]

law is law.
your opinion doesn't change law.
I'm glad for the law as I have seen women die from unwanted pregnancy and others thrive from abortions that didn't hold them back from financial dependence, male abuse, and murder.

What does the Supreme Court know... they've reversed rulings before. I say let someone who really understands right and wrong decide. Maybe Republican Evangelist Ted Haggard is available for his consultation and decision making prowess on this matter when he's not smoking meth or engaging with male prostitutes (no pregnancies there)! I feel he would be a better judge of right and wrong than the actual woman involved don't you? But not the United States Supreme Court! Lordy no!

What you fail to see is once you are pregnant you have no rights. At the instant of fertilization of just 2 cells you are a prisoner and a slave to those cells. You MUST give up all free will and be a government forced incubator for the state. In fact should you seem to be inclined to self abort you should be tied down to a table and force fed to ensure nothing stops the biological processes inside your own personal body.

Or in other words... be thankful we and the vast majority of the rest of the world allows a women's right to choose and doesn't Police State it's women like brood mares.

 

[palerider]

law is law.

So when the law said that women were to be turned away from voting booths, it was the law and there was nothing wrong with the status quo? Is that what you are saying? And when the law said that you could own blacks and treat them humanely or kill them at your whim, that was the law and there was nothing wrong with it? Is that what you are saying?

your opinion doesn't change law.

That is where you are wrong. Opposing opinions are exactly how laws get changed. In its history, the supreme court has reversed itself over 200 times exactly because people had opinions that ran contrary to previous decisions. As a result, those decisions were revisited and found to be unconstitutional and struck down. Exactly the fate awaiting Roe v Wade.

I'm glad for the law as I have seen women die from unwanted pregnancy and others thrive from abortions that didn't hold them back from financial dependence, male abuse, and murder.

Glad for a law that has resulted in 45 MILLION unborn human beings being denied the mos basic human right? And I don't believe that you have seen women die from unwanted pregnancies. I believe that was nothing more than a dishonest appeal to emotion. I believe that you have a problem with men and would say anything you felt was necessary, honest or not, if you believed it would help you make your point.

 

[Coyote]

What you fail to see is once you are pregnant you have no rights. At the instant of fertilization of just 2 cells you are a prisoner and a slave to those cells.

One could make the same argument for what you are carrying: does it have any rights? or no rights? or some rights only after a certain point?

And to say that the pregnant woman has no rights and is a slave to those cells is not being intellectually honest. She always has the right to save her life for one - I don't believe any law denying her life and health could pass a constitutional challange. In addition - in most (but not all) cases she had the right to refuse the risk of pregnancy.

 

[bewitched]

What does the Supreme Court know... they've reversed rulings before. I say let someone who really understands right and wrong decide. Maybe Republican Evangelist Ted Haggard is available for his consultation and decision making prowess on this matter when he's not smoking meth or engaging with male prostitutes (no pregnancies there)! I feel he would be a better judge of right and wrong than the actual woman involved don't you? But not the United States Supreme Court! Lordy no!

What you fail to see is once you are pregnant you have no rights. At the instant of fertilization of just 2 cells you are a prisoner and a slave to those cells. You MUST give up all free will and be a government forced incubator for the state. In fact should you seem to be inclined to self abort you should be tied down to a table and force fed to ensure nothing stops the biological processes inside your own personal body.

Or in other words... be thankful we and the vast majority of the rest of the world allows a women's right to choose and doesn't Police State it's women like brood mares.

God Bless you!
women are slaves to the government. exactly. just like they were slaves and property of the King 200 years ago.
excellent point!!!

 

[bewitched]

One could make the same argument for what you are carrying: does it have any rights? or no rights? or some rights only after a certain point?

And to say that the pregnant woman has no rights and is a slave to those cells is not being intellectually honest. She always has the right to save her life for one - I don't believe any law denying her life and health could pass a constitutional challange. In addition - in most (but not all) cases she had the right to refuse the risk of pregnancy.

no, that's the whole point, a fetus has no rights because it's at that point a part of a woman's body.

name the risks of pregnancy. include murder, financial failure, homelessness, birth defects, and others.

 

[Coyote]

no, that's the whole point, a fetus has no rights because it's at that point a part of a woman's body.

name the risks of pregnancy. include murder, financial failure, homelessness, birth defects, and others.

I have done so in making my argument previously. I am still pro-choice, but I don't believe in unlimited choice and the argument that what the woman carries is not a human being and has no rights is as intellectually dishonest as the opposing arguments that the fetus has rights equal to the mothers.

The other point is - all those risks could, for the most part - be averted with responsable use of birth control and education. Abortion is not and should not be birth control.

 

[palerider]

God Bless you!
women are slaves to the government. exactly. just like they were slaves and property of the King 200 years ago.
excellent point!!!

God bless you? God bless you for supporting a law that has allowed women to kill 45 million innocent children in this country alone? If God involves him or herself in this matter, by bet is that it isn't going to be by blessing those who support the wholesale killing of his/her most innocent creations.

And your "women are slaves" argument is just more of the mindless drivel that you seem to spew without end.