Abortion

[Gipper]

I'm not a fan of abortion either, but some of the people who post here make me think about reconsidering my stand on retroactive birth control.

Yeah, me too.

 

[Gipper]

I am sorry, but if you were so not arrogant, you would have noticed that the question was not for you. I am not interested in anything you have to say on any subject.

Why must you hurt me so? I am in such a state now due to your unkind words.

I will agree that I can be "arrogant" at times.

But, you my dear are IGNORANT.

 

[dahermit]

But, you my dear are IGNORANT.

Prove it.

 

[palerider]

Please post some evidence that overpopulation is a myth. I want to be educated on the subject.

Prove a negative? Really? If you believe it to be a problem, the onus falls upon you to prove that it is, not for me to prove that it isn't.

 

[dahermit]

Overpopulation is a myth and I am afraid that you just can't build a rational argument in support of anything upon a myth.

You did not construct your post with a negative connotation. You stated that, "...Overpopulation is a myth...", as a positive statement. Now, provide some evidence, or provide some modifications such as: "Although no proof to the contrary exists, it is my opinion that overpopulation is a myth.", please. No dancing.

If you believe it to be a problem, the onus falls upon you to prove that it is, not for me to prove that it isn't.

I did not say that it is a problem or that it exists or that it is a myth. I just want to be shown (by you) that it is a myth. That should not be too hard for you to do.

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

Prove a negative? Really? If you believe it to be a problem, the onus falls upon you to prove that it is, not for me to prove that it isn't.

You could prove the positive if you like: prove that there is enough clean water available to provide for the larger population, demonstrate that there is enough food on an ongoing basis to support a larger population...etc.

 

[palerider]

You could prove the positive if you like: prove that there is enough clean water available to provide for the larger population, demonstrate that there is enough food on an ongoing basis to support a larger population...etc.

Considering that you could turn the state of texas into a giant subdivision and give each and every individual on earth a 33'x33' plot of land, the idea that the earth is overpopulated decends to the absurd very quickly. And in developed countries, the primary health concerns are those that arise from obesity so food and water isn't an issue. The third world remains poor, disease ridden, and starving because greens like to keep them from having the one convenience that makes your own lifestyle possible. That little electrical outlet that you never think twice about. Take it away and you will be where the greens are keeping the third world in about 3 months.

 

[dahermit]

Considering that you could turn the state of texas into a giant subdivision and give each and every individual on earth a 33'x33' plot of land, the idea that the earth is overpopulated decends to the absurd very quickly. And in developed countries, the primary health concerns are those that arise from obesity so food and water isn't an issue.

Giving every person on earth a place to stand, or squat in the sun and elements does not give them a means to make a living, an abode, clothing, or food or water, transportation to a job.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=the-ogallala-aquifer
Overpopulation is about resources and the quality of life, not about a 33'x33' plot of land to stand on. Many people in the U.S. have less than that now and have no need or desire to have an insignificant piece of land.
Water is not a factor in obesity, but it is an absolute necessity for an agrarian society.

The third world remains poor, disease ridden, and starving because greens like to keep them from having the one convenience that makes your own lifestyle possible. That little electrical outlet that you never think twice about. Take it away and you will be where the greens are keeping the third world in about 3 months.

If you gave electrical outlets to them, would they have our standard of living in three months? Or, would they still be living in a dust bowl. How would they pay for the electricity if they had it? How would they magically afford refrigerators, super markets full of meat (so they would not eat ("bush meat"),air conditioners, homes, autos, and clothing? Would it suddenly rain ending the droughts? Would they suddenly have an Ogallala Aquifer under their parched land instead of dry bed rock? Oh, magical outlets thou art good! Just plug into it and all the starvation and misery of the world ends!

Unrelated to posts: Why have you chosen an avatar (other than the obvious similarities) that looks like Michael (the boss in Scranton) from "The Office"?

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

Considering that you could turn the state of texas into a giant subdivision and give each and every individual on earth a 33'x33' plot of land, the idea that the earth is overpopulated decends to the absurd very quickly. And in developed countries, the primary health concerns are those that arise from obesity so food and water isn't an issue. The third world remains poor, disease ridden, and starving because greens like to keep them from having the one convenience that makes your own lifestyle possible. That little electrical outlet that you never think twice about. Take it away and you will be where the greens are keeping the third world in about 3 months.

The problem is not that there wouldn't be enough land, what are people going to do on 33 X 33? Potable water, water for irrigation, and water for industrial uses will be the problem. The Colorado River no longer runs to the sea, California is trying to take water from the Columbia, all over the planet we are finding that aquifers are drawing down and becoming increasingly polluted.

I'm surprised at you, Pale, you're smart enough to realize that humans need more space than just the land they stand on and grow their food on to be happy. Living cheek to jowl with others will drive many people to insanity. Look at the studies done on people in overcrowded conditions.

It would seem that the overfishing of the benthic and pelagic fisheries of the world would be a warning sign. There are people calling for the extinction of elephants because they say we simply can't spare the huge amounts land necessary for elephant habitat. Wolves, grizzly bears, polar bears, tigers, and other large predators need wide areas to live in that can no longer be accomodated.

 

[palerider]

Giving every person on earth a place to stand, or squat in the sun and elements does not give them a means to make a living, an abode, clothing, or food or water, transportation to a job.

The point is that the earth is mostly empty. Not overpopulated to the point of dwindling resources as many hand wringing emotionalists would have people believe.

If you gave electrical outlets to them, would they have our standard of living in three months? Or, would they still be living in a dust bowl.

Did we achieve our standard of living in 3 months? The statement was that without it, you would lose yours entirely in 3 months. There is a difference.

Perhaps you have never thought of what that electrical outlet lets you do and why it makes your standard of living possible. What is your primary need? Food and water, right? When was the last time you went to a well, or a stream for water? When was the last time you spent more than a fraction of your week gathering food, and where did you gather it?

That outlet makes it possible for you to store food. It frees you from the necessity to spend the greater part of every day of your life scratching for the minimum number of calories necessary to continue your life. It is that freedom from grubbing for the bare necessities that allows you to have a job and build a standard of living, and it is the denial of the conveniences that we never think twice about that keeps the third world exactly where it is.

How would they pay for the electricity if they had it? How would they magically afford refrigerators, super markets full of meat (so they would not eat ("bush meat"),air conditioners, homes, autos, and clothing?

Freed from the necessity to scratch 10 hours a day to aquire the basic caloric necessities by having the ability to store food, even at a community level, jobs would come in precisely the same manner as they came to us.

Would it suddenly rain ending the droughts?

Did electrical outlets suddenly make it rain on our non arable land making it possible to grow food in the desert? Invest just a little bit of thought into something for once in your life? There is no doubt that we can grow food anywhere, in any conditions and make land that was once barren as a rock produce food enough to feed ourselves and produce surplus as as never been seen on earth before. It is certainly due to the power grid, but did the electrical outlets make a single drop of rain?

Would they suddenly have an Ogallala Aquifer under their parched land instead of dry bed rock? Oh, magical outlets thou art good! Just plug into it and all the starvation and misery of the world ends!

Funny thing about hydroelectric plants. They make it possible to bring water to places were abundant water was an unknown resource. By the way, exactly which country are you claiming has no ground water?

Unrelated to posts: Why have you chosen an avatar (other than the obvious similarities) that looks like Michael (the boss in Scranton) from "The Office"?

I have never seen "the office" so I don't know what you are talking about and even if I had, I would never choose an avatar, or anything else upon such shallow reasons.

 

[dogtowner]

I'm not sure which but lack of food or water will be what culls the human herd first. The oceans are well on their way to being fished out and clean water is hard to come by even now.

Have greens assisted in aiding disease ? Sure. Banning DDT for no reason killed millions and millions.

 

[dahermit]

The point is that the earth is mostly empty. Not overpopulated to the point of dwindling resources as many hand wringing emotionalists would have people believe.

Simplistic. It is not only a matter of dwindling resources. It is also a matter of the effect of massive waste disposal. consider the Eastern and South Eastern United States with all its major cities and populated areas. The sewage effluent and all the other runoff is channeled into the sea causing damage to shell fish beds killing off the shell fish or making it dangerous to eat. Entire fisheries are disappearing because of sewage discharge and over fishing.

In pre-Colombian times (not overpopulated), an Indian could defecate into a shallow hole, cover it and be on his way. The feces would decompose and become part of the humus harming nothing. The Indian could fish to his hearts content without ever effecting the numbers or quality of the fish stock.

Enter over-population. Build dams for hydro-electric city needs, destroy the spawning runs of fish(especially Salmon in the North West). Build coal fired plants (the most common) and add Mercury to the fish population. Build neuclear..."Three Mile Island", "Chernobyl", ring a bell?

...what country has no ground water...

All the land West of the Ogallala Aquifer, which includes many areas in the Rocky Mountain Range. There are many places in the western states where pumped wells are a nonexistent source for water and if you do not have a surface source (mountain snow melt, catch basins, etc), you do not have water at all. Why do you think that Southern California (L.A.), accesses the Colorado River? If there was ground water available, why would there be so much talk about tapping into the Great Lakes for Western States water? You appear unaware of the water debates in the Southwestern United States. Las Vegas has a continuing and anticipated problem with any larger human population demands upon its water resource.
When the Ogallala Aquifer goes dry because of increasing demand, the Central United States will no longer have an irrigation source for the thousands of acres under cultivation to feed the rest of the U.S.
Water is a finite resource. The more people using it, the sooner it runs out.
For God's sake put down the video games and research what is happening with the the Ogallala Aquifer, California's ( where a major portion of winter produce comes from), water problems. The only people who cannot see that there is a problem are those who's vision is obscured by having their heads too far up thier.....

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

The point is that the earth is mostly empty. Not overpopulated to the point of dwindling resources as many hand wringing emotionalists would have people believe.



Did we achieve our standard of living in 3 months? The statement was that without it, you would lose yours entirely in 3 months. There is a difference.

Perhaps you have never thought of what that electrical outlet lets you do and why it makes your standard of living possible. What is your primary need? Food and water, right? When was the last time you went to a well, or a stream for water? When was the last time you spent more than a fraction of your week gathering food, and where did you gather it?

That outlet makes it possible for you to store food. It frees you from the necessity to spend the greater part of every day of your life scratching for the minimum number of calories necessary to continue your life. It is that freedom from grubbing for the bare necessities that allows you to have a job and build a standard of living, and it is the denial of the conveniences that we never think twice about that keeps the third world exactly where it is.



Freed from the necessity to scratch 10 hours a day to aquire the basic caloric necessities by having the ability to store food, even at a community level, jobs would come in precisely the same manner as they came to us.



Did electrical outlets suddenly make it rain on our non arable land making it possible to grow food in the desert? Invest just a little bit of thought into something for once in your life? There is no doubt that we can grow food anywhere, in any conditions and make land that was once barren as a rock produce food enough to feed ourselves and produce surplus as as never been seen on earth before. It is certainly due to the power grid, but did the electrical outlets make a single drop of rain?



Funny thing about hydroelectric plants. They make it possible to bring water to places were abundant water was an unknown resource. By the way, exactly which country are you claiming has no ground water?



I have never seen "the office" so I don't know what you are talking about and even if I had, I would never choose an avatar, or anything else upon such shallow reasons.

I hate to be a poop about this, but this post you are responding to was not written by me, it was done by dahermit. My post was #1734.

 

[palerider]

All the land West of the Ogallala Aquifer, which includes many areas in the Rocky Mountain Range.

Some research is in order on your part. Little of the land west of the rockes is without grandwater. The ogallala is the largest; not the only.

I will say one thing for you guys (libs) you believe in the crazyiest things and continue to believe no matter how often they are proven wrong. The population myth didn't work out for malthus and it didn't work out for ehrlich and it isn't going to work out for whoever is pushing the tripe today; any more than AGW.

 

[palerider]

I hate to be a poop about this, but this post you are responding to was not written by me, it was done by dahermit. My post was #1734.

Sorry. One block of tripe is hard to distinguish from another.