Public Schools - Indoctrination Centers

[PLC1]

You have to define promotion .......

By faculty, staff or any other promoting group outside the school during school hours ...... NO

Among students and outside of school hours ..... YES

And, there is a clear difference between teaching and promoting as well ...... the leftist see this as the same to fulfill their anti-1st Amendment agenda ..... but it is not the same.

Um...

OK.

I think we're both in agreement about where the line is to be drawn. Now, the "leftist" sees this as "the same to fulfill their anti 1st. Amendment agenda" doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Are "leftists", whoever you conceive of the m to be, against the teaching of religion outside of school hours?

Is that statement somehow related to the link we've been discussing of the promotion of Islam?

 

[Texas_tea]

Um...

OK.

I think we're both in agreement about where the line is to be drawn. Now, the "leftist" sees this as "the same to fulfill their anti 1st. Amendment agenda" doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Are "leftists", whoever you conceive of the m to be, against the teaching of religion outside of school hours?

Of course they are ..... but, they haven't found away to enforce that yet ......

I am sure it's coming and I suspect it will have something to do with accusing and then enforcing hate speech laws on the churches over homosexuality.

Their goal is to eliminated religion all together.

Communist Goals #25 -28
25. Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio, and TV.

26. Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as "normal, natural, healthy."

27. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with "social" religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity, which does not need a "religious crutch."

28. Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the ground that it violates the principle of "separation of church and state."

 

[PLC1]

Of course they are ..... but, they haven't found away to enforce that yet ......

I am sure it's coming and I suspect it will have something to do with accusing and then enforcing hate speech laws on the churches over homosexuality.

Their goal is to eliminated religion all together.

Communist Goals #25 -28
25. Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio, and TV.

26. Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as "normal, natural, healthy."

27. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with "social" religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity, which does not need a "religious crutch."

28. Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the ground that it violates the principle of "separation of church and state."

I'm sure Joe McCarthy would have agreed with you.

When "they" try to eliminate religion altogether, then your fears about "them" will be realized.

personally, I don't think "they" are very many, very powerful, or likely to succeed.

Now, as for Cruella's link, that was about promotion of religion in public schools, and not about eliminating it altogether, was it not?

I think we're discussing two different issues.

 

[Texas_tea]

I think we're discussing two different issues.

No ..... I think they are strictly focusing in on Christianity ..... I am not sure exactly why that for the most part does not include Islam with the exception that Islam is more in line with a totalitarian government.

 

[PLC1]

No ..... I think they are strictly focusing in on Christianity ..... I am not sure exactly why that for the most part does not include Islam with the exception that Islam is more in line with a totalitarian government.

It is true that the Islamic nations seem to have more of an issue with separating religion from government.

They will never be free, IMO, until they do. Separation of church and state, whether or not it is in our Constitution in those words, is essential to liberty.

 

[Texas_tea]

It is true that the Islamic nations seem to have more of an issue with separating religion from government.

They will never be free, IMO, until they do. Separation of church and state, whether or not it is in our Constitution in those words, is essential to liberty.

Yes ....

That may be true but, not in it's current interpretation. The Freedom to Practice Religion is just as essential to our liberties as the government not sponsoring or pushing a state religion.

 

[PLC1]

[quote="Texas_tea, post: 217807/]

That may be true but, not in it's current interpretation. The Freedom to Practice Religion is just as essential to our liberties as the government not sponsoring or pushing a state religion.[/quote]

.

Correct, but the freedom to practice religion does not extend to public entities like the schools.

 

[Texas_tea]

[quote="Texas_tea, post: 217807/]

That may be true but, not in it's current interpretation. The Freedom to Practice Religion is just as essential to our liberties as the government not sponsoring or pushing a state religion.

.

Correct, but the freedom to practice religion does not extend to public entities like the schools.[/quote]
You keep posting that yet you cannot post where in the US Constitution that misinterpretation comes from

 

[PLC1]

.

Correct, but the freedom to practice religion does not extend to public entities like the schools.

You keep posting that yet you cannot post where in the US Constitution that misinterpretation comes from[/quote]
and you keep calling it a misinterpretation.
and I keep asking whether you really support the sorts of things described in the link that Cruella gave us.

Are you really arguing for practicing religion in the public schools, as opposed to teaching about various religions?

My position is that the government, and government entities, have no business practicing religion. The separation of church and state, whether or not those words actually appear in the Constitution, is one thing that separates us from the Islamic countries.

State religions were tried in Christian Europe centuries ago as well, which is why the founding fathers were against such a combination.

 

[Texas_tea]

Are you really arguing for practicing religion in the public schools, as opposed to teaching about various religions?

Already answered this one ....

My position is that the government, and government entities, have no business practicing religion. The separation of church and state, whether or not those words actually appear in the Constitution, is one thing that separates us from the Islamic countries.

Separation of Church and State has absolutely nothing to do with what makes us different from the Islamic countries. The US Constitution does ....

Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

The Constitution says absolutely nothing about the government "practicing" religion. It specifically says Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion. Religious symbols in a school or government establishment , school children or public employees praying or talking/writing about God is not a law and is in no way forcing and establishment of religion on anyone.

Not allowing children or public employees (as in gov. employees) to pray, talk about, wear religious symbols, have religious symbols in these establishments, etc. is damn sure prohibiting the free exercise thereof, which is against the law according to the US Constitution.

State religions were tried in Christian Europe centuries ago as well, which is why the founding fathers were against such a combination.

The US has never had a state sponsored religion and has only outlawed religion in government establishments in the last 40 years or so .....

Our Founding Fathers were against state established religion. That is obvious. It is the First Amendment to the US Constitution. But, they were also for the FREEDOM OF RELIGION as well .............. that too is in the FIRST Amendment !

 

[PLC1]

My position is that the government, and government entities, have no business practicing religion. The separation of church and state, whether or not those words actually appear in the Constitution, is one thing that separates us from the Islamic countries.
Separation of Church and State has absolutely nothing to do with what makes us different from the Islamic countries. The US Constitution does ....

Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

The Constitution says absolutely nothing about the government "practicing" religion. It specifically says Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion. Religious symbols in a school or government establishment , school children or public employees praying or talking/writing about God is not a law and is in no way forcing and establishment of religion on anyone.

Not allowing children or public employees (as in gov. employees) to pray, talk about, wear religious symbols, have religious symbols in these establishments, etc. is damn sure prohibiting the free exercise thereof, which is against the law according to the US Constitution.


The US has never had a state sponsored religion and has only outlawed religion in government establishments in the last 40 years or so .....

Our Founding Fathers were against state established religion. That is obvious. It is the First Amendment to the US Constitution. But, they were also for the FREEDOM OF RELIGION as well .............. that too is in the FIRST Amendment !

OK, and your point?

We still have freedom of religion. You and I can go to any church we decide to go to, or go to none at all, and still have all of the rights of citizenship along with anyone else. It doesn't matter whether you're Jewish, Muslim, Christian, or whatever in this country. Children or public employees can pray, talk about, wear religious symbols, all they want, as long as they don't expect others to pray along with them, wear the same symbols, or accept their religion. There have been attempts to outlaw wearing of crucifixes and so on, but they haven't been successful. It is, as I've said before, a cornerstone of liberty.

Back 40 years ago, before religion in government was outlawed according to what you just posted, what was different?

You're talking about 1973 and before, a period I remember quite clearly. A lot has changed since then, to be sure, but government practicing religion isn't one of them.

And, about those examples that Cruella posted, you're still OK with those?

 

[Texas_tea]

Publisher of AP History Book Containing Questionable Second Amendment Summary Has Direct Ties to Common Core – and There’s More

The publisher of a controversial advanced placement history textbook, which acts as a study guide for the advanced placement U.S. history exam and seems to diminish the Second Amendment, is directly linked to Common Core standards, TheBlaze has learned. Additionally, it appears a South Carolina high school, and possibly many others, are using a different history textbook that also contains a questionable interpretation of the Second Amendment.

Just a typo, huh .......

 

[Texas_tea]

We still have freedom of religion.

Tell that to the students who want to pray at football games or graduation .... the examples are too many to list .... probably some 23 pages or so .....

And, about those examples that Cruella posted, you're still OK with those?

I never said I was OK with that and I have already answered that question!

 

[PLC1]

Publisher of AP History Book Containing Questionable Second Amendment Summary Has Direct Ties to Common Core – and There’s More

The publisher of a controversial advanced placement history textbook, which acts as a study guide for the advanced placement U.S. history exam and seems to diminish the Second Amendment, is directly linked to Common Core standards, TheBlaze has learned. Additionally, it appears a South Carolina high school, and possibly many others, are using a different history textbook that also contains a questionable interpretation of the Second Amendment.

Just a typo, huh .......

Well, you never know just what those Texas schools are going to use to revise history. This book obviously does have some serious flaws.

 

[PLC1]

Tell that to the students who want to pray at football games or graduation .... the examples are too many to list .... probably some 23 pages or so .....

They can pray all they want, privately and voluntarily. What they can't do is broadcast it over the speaker system for everyone.

Didn't Christ say we should pray privately anyway? What's the problem here?

I never said I was OK with that and I have already answered that question!

Oh. So, you don't believe in the schools practicing religion. Maybe we're on the same side of the argument after all.