Public Schools - Indoctrination Centers

[Texas_tea]

The "official site" being the actual text of the common core curriculum.



No, not at all. I said all along that what you said wasn't there. What you quoted was just what someone else says that it says, not what it actually says.

It is not as it seems .... that is my point .....

Reading the official site will get you no where ....

If you believe the official site and care not to discuss others opinions on this matter (16 pages plus) then say so ....

 

[PLC1]

It is not as it seems .... that is my point .....

Reading the official site will get you no where ....

If you believe the official site and care not to discuss others opinions on this matter (16 pages plus) then say so ....

"The official site" is the text of the core curriculum you're discussing. It's like reading the Constitution, or, if you don't like that analogy, the Communist Manifesto instead of reading what someone said about it.

You can find someone on line who will agree with anything on practically any subject. Knowing how to sift fact from opinion and determine who is credible is one of the things taught in the core curriculum.

 

[dogtowner]

It is not as it seems .... that is my point .....

Reading the official site will get you no where ....

If you believe the official site and care not to discuss others opinions on this matter (16 pages plus) then say so ....

If it is somehow not as it seems then it should be demonstrable.
If the suggestion is that there are individuals who infuse personal opinion into practice then thee is no argument. But you cannot hang fault on some program when its not being followed.

 

[BigRob]

Is this a loaded question???

It's NOT Dewhurst if that is what your asking ..... we defeated that RINO POS with Ted Cruz ....

No, no loaded question. I am just curious. I assume Dan Patrick?

 

[Cruella]

I see common core as another liberal Trojan horse, just like Obamacare. First it was snuck into the stimulus package. Another way liberals operate, in secrecy. Did anyone who voted for it know it was there, read it or understand it?

It's also illegal, usurping states rights. But since when have liberals cared about federal laws or the 10th amendment? Holder is suing the state of LA right now, because his union buddies don't want them to use school vouchers. So much for caring about minorities and the poor.

It's untested. There was no pilot program and no one knows how it's going to affect our kids. Funny how it's okay to make PHARMA jump through years of testing to put an aspirin on the market, but hey, what difference does educating our all of our kids with the same mediocre. untried and untested formula make?

Just because on it's face nothing horrible jumps out yet, doesn't mean a thing. We're still finding out all the hidden horrors of Obamacare, and it hasn't even gone into effect yet.

If you think another giant federally ran and controlled bureaucracy is a good thing, then you don't understand the goals of this Administration, how our Republic is supposed to operate or the ultimate goal of Common Core.

Just like Obamacare, Common core is a work in progress. Get your foot in the door and slowly take over and mandate every movement of every kid, teacher and school. What's going to stop them from adding a little quip about making private and homeschooling illegal? Germany just sent in a swat team to take some kids away whose parents were homeschooling them. Is that what's going to happen here too? If you don't think that it can't happen, then just wait and see.

 

[dogtowner]

States foolishly took federal money so some degree of sayso was surrendered. Please also note thatwhen a federal bribe fails to work (Im talking about obamalunch getting punted) it can be jettisoned. That is the power states and localities still possess. Will weak kneed areas fall over themselves for whatever ? Of course but those players are already hotbeds for individual shenannigans now and those areas are dying as a result (can yousay Motown ? lThe unique thing about schools is that there are so damn many systems that central control is impossible. And if parents care about anything anymore its their kids and theire education.

 

[Cruella]

The unique thing about schools is that there are so damn many systems that central control is impossible. And if parents care about anything anymore its their kids and theire education.

Are you sure about that? All state requirements, regardless of the schools make-up, must include the common core standards. The standards are tied to the SAT tests. There are 47 states that have adopted the CC program. They are only allowed to add no more than 12 or 15% to their curriculum.

As far as I understand it, they only have the math and reading portions. The rest is still to be implemented. Common Core is also tied to the SAT tests, which are also being changed. The object is to have all states uniform, which will be controlled by the federal government. This will put even more kids in badly performing states further behind, and will lower the academic levels like in Mass. We can't have any state or school "better" than any others. They must all be equal.

 

[dogtowner]

Are you sure about that? All state requirements, regardless of the schools make-up, must include the common core standards. The standards are tied to the SAT tests. There are 47 states that have adopted the CC program. They are only allowed to add no more than 12 or 15% to their curriculum.

As far as I understand it, they only have the math and reading portions. The rest is still to be implemented. Common Core is also tied to the SAT tests, which are also being changed. The object is to have all states uniform, which will be controlled by the federal government. This will put even more kids in badly performing states further behind, and will lower the academic levels like in Mass. We can't have any state or school "better" than any others. They must all be equal.

yes, I'm sure. Is this the same Common Core that noone can cite an example of the subversion attributed to it ?

 

[Cruella]

yes, I'm sure. Is this the same Common Core that noone can cite an example of the subversion attributed to it ?

Like I said. This has just been implemented and not even completely. We have no clue how an untested program is going to pan out.

As a conservative, I'm against centralized government. I believe in education at the local level, not the federal level, otherwise why bother to elect school boards and have community and parental involvement? Just let the government and teacher unions dictate what will, and how they will be taught.

 

[dogtowner]

Like I said. This has just been implemented and not even completely. We have no clue how an untested program is going to pan out.

As a conservative, I'm against centralized government. I believe in education at the local level, not the federal level, otherwise why bother to elect school boards and have community and parental involvement? Just let the government and teacher unions dictate what will, and how they will be taught.

there is nk valid argument to support federal involvement from a constitutional perspective yet wehave a deprartment of education. theybought a role from stupid people. its insane but it here and this debate wont change that. we actually do know whats in this common core so there is not much to say about it. we do not know what individuals might try in its name but as you point out, we do have local school boards and they can and do support the will of the people when those people require it of them. when they dont, Frankiln wisely point out that they deserve what they get.

 

[PLC1]

The bottom line is, there is nothing in the Core Standards that even remotely resembles what is being said is in there.

Yes, the Department of Education represents the federal government getting into an area that the Constitution does not support, but it does not show schools as "liberal indoctrination" or contain anything about the teaching of religion.

The core curriculum, like the state counterparts, include how to read for information and how to evaluate that information, what the bureaucracy likes to call "critical thinking skills." Applying those skills will convince anyone that there is no "liberal indoctrination" going on.

 

[dogtowner]

Like I said. This has just been implemented and not even completely. We have no clue how an untested program is going to pan out.

As a conservative, I'm against centralized government. I believe in education at the local level, not the federal level, otherwise why bother to elect school boards and have community and parental involvement? Just let the government and teacher unions dictate what will, and how they will be taught.

just found out something interesting about the principal of the highschool the missus works at. he's in mortal fear of the PTA. To the extent that he is willing to piss off the staff keeping them happy. Of course this is the definition of anecdotal but it does show the power of the people when they choose to use it.

 

[Texas_tea]

just found out something interesting about the principal of the highschool the missus works at. he's in mortal fear of the PTA. To the extent that he is willing to piss off the staff keeping them happy. Of course this is the definition of anecdotal but it does show the power of the people when they choose to use it.

How effective will this power be against Federal Mandates?

Regardless of what "the people" want ... if the government controls the education system across the country, the administrators will eventually have to comply.

We have seen these mandates throughout the history of education. Whether it be desegregation or full inclusion. Now, I am not saying these particular mandates were bad but, the point is, all schools eventually have to comply with these Federal Mandates.

What happens if these mandates become something "the people" do not approve of, which surely you realize is a real possibility?

 

[Cruella]

Calif. teachers are already bitching about it and it doesn't go into full effect until next year. I guess they had the understanding that it would not affect the way they chose to teach. Now they are finding out that that is a lie. Apparently they are being told "how" to teach and they aren't liking it.

They also found out that this program was the dream child of a man who has never taught before and the program has never been tested.

Way to go.

 

[Texas_tea]

Common Core is not only about "indoctrinating" our children ..... it is a huge data collecting model as well.


The National Education Data Model (NEDM), available online, lists hundreds of data points considered indispensable to the nationalized student tracking racket. These include:

“Bus Stop Arrival Time” and “Bus Stop Description”

“Dwelling arrangement”

“Diseases, Illnesses and Other Health Conditions”

“Religious Affiliation”

“Telephone Number Type” and “Telephone Status”

Home-schoolers and religious families that reject traditional government education will be tracked. Original NEDM data points included hair color, eye color, weight, blood types, and even dental status.

How does data collecting advance the education for our children? It doesn't. It only advances big government.

Socialism can be defined as "Big Government"!!

The goal of Socialism is Communism ...
-Vladimir Lenin