LOLOLOLOLOL!!!! I would again post the convert or die passages, but they wouldnt work any better the second time. Ive read the Koran, all the Haddiths and the writings from Islamic writers. Ive not gained my knowledge from talk show hosts. And the history of the Islamic empire only supports my assertions. Ive posted the scriptures and writings that support my position. This "out of context" ploy gets old after the 5th time, when still no context has been presented to show otherwise. MARK
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ISLAM is EVIL !
- Thread starter DemocratLupis
- Start date
LOLOLOLOLOL!!!! I would again post the convert or die passages, but they wouldnt work any better the second time. Ive read the Koran, all the Haddiths and the writings from Islamic writers. Ive not gained my knowledge from talk show hosts. And the history of the Islamic empire only supports my assertions. Ive posted the scriptures and writings that support my position. This "out of context" ploy gets old after the 5th time, when still no context has been presented to show otherwise. MARK
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ArmChair General
Well-Known Member
Well then good luck with your bigotry. Though if what you've posted so far is any indication of what you know of Islam, then its obviously very little.
Mark, you're an absoloutely uneducated pleb when it comes to this, you believe Islam is evil and wont see it any differently when proved wrong, you just drag up more out of context quotes that most Muslims don't adhere to in their lives.
And please stop putting MARK at the end of your quotes you pretentious arsewipe.
And please stop putting MARK at the end of your quotes you pretentious arsewipe.
vyo476
Well-Known Member
Let's take a look at some of your postings, jb.
One of the (many) things you're missing is that the Qu'ran was originally written in Arabic. The Arabs considered their language to be one of their greatest artistic achievements. There is a great deal of metaphor present and English translations of the text just don't do it justice.
Another thing - consider the single, core belief of Islam - submission to the will of God (Allah), right? So how, exactly, does one submit to the will of Allah? By reading the Islamic holy texts and by listening to Islamic holy leaders, both of which involve someone reading those books and deciphering a meaning from them. Doing so, and implementing a belief on such a reading, requires interpretation. I'm sorry if I believe that the majority of Muslims, who are quite peaceful and really just want to be left alone, are better at interpreting their religion than you are. I'm also sorry if I judge a religious group by its modern adherents rather than by its ancient texts or by its ancient history - I don't dislike Christians, I just dislike how so many people in America have decided that there is a moral superiority inherent in Christianity that does not exist in Islam.
Could this not refer to an inner struggle? An inner fight in Allah's cause? Must it refer to picking up a weapon and killing others?
Once again - what type of "fight" does this prescribe? Around here we teach children to "fight intolerance, bigotry, and racism." Do you suppose that means "go pick a fight with a racist?"
One of the (many) things you're missing is that the Qu'ran was originally written in Arabic. The Arabs considered their language to be one of their greatest artistic achievements. There is a great deal of metaphor present and English translations of the text just don't do it justice.
Another thing - consider the single, core belief of Islam - submission to the will of God (Allah), right? So how, exactly, does one submit to the will of Allah? By reading the Islamic holy texts and by listening to Islamic holy leaders, both of which involve someone reading those books and deciphering a meaning from them. Doing so, and implementing a belief on such a reading, requires interpretation. I'm sorry if I believe that the majority of Muslims, who are quite peaceful and really just want to be left alone, are better at interpreting their religion than you are. I'm also sorry if I judge a religious group by its modern adherents rather than by its ancient texts or by its ancient history - I don't dislike Christians, I just dislike how so many people in America have decided that there is a moral superiority inherent in Christianity that does not exist in Islam.
Yeah, youve made several comments like this now. Void of relative content, instead relying on personal attacks. You allege I get my ideas from talk show hosts, and yet all Ive quoted is the Koran haddiths and Islamic writers. Feel free to present anything other than your own translations of Arabic and your personal opinions to support your ignorance. MARK
Feel free to present anything other than personal attacks and your personal opinions. "Proved"??? Youve not presented anything to even support your position. MARK
Do you have anything OTHER than your desparate need to believe that Islam is peace to support this assertion? What kind of "reward, or booty" do you think would follow from an inner struggle? What kind of inner struggle would lead to being "killed in the battle as a martyr"? What kind of inner struggle requires "putting himself and his property in danger" and after this inner struggle "does not return with any of those things." ?? What kind of inner struggle requires "keeping his armor for Allah's Cause"? Why would one need "horses and weapons as preparation for" for inner struggle for.
ITS FREAKIN AMAZING what you people have convinced yourselves of, and the total absence of evidence that has convinced you. Riiight, jihad means inner struggle and I am the uneducated one.
You all may now return to your carefully crafted fantasy worlds. MARK
vyo476
Well-Known Member
1.4 billion peaceful people who refer to themselves as Muslims.
Perhaps the spiritual kind?
A struggle implies the possibility of defeat and a martyr is someone who, in death, has provided an example for those who remain living. Someone who loses that inner struggle is spiritually dead; his death, a transition from being a good person to an evil one, is a martyrdom of the original good person and a warning to those still alive about how to avoid going down the same path.
Giving alms isn't always terribly safe; the poor can be especially ravenous and so, giving to them may sometimes by a potential hazard to both health and property. After giving them stuff...you go back without it, and potentially without your health too if necessary - the point is you do it whether or not you're going to get hurt.
If the fighting is a metaphor for inner struggle the armor would simply be a metaphor for inner defenses and a resolution to withstand evil.
More metaphor. The Muslims were well versed in war and so it isn't too terribly surprising that their metaphors would contain a whole lot of that type of imagery.
Also the Muslims (re)invented cavalry (Charlemagne got the idea from fighting the Moors in Spain); making reference to "horses and weapons" is symbolic of struggling with ideas external to Islam by usage of patently Islamic means.
I challenge you to discredit any of those interpretations by any means other than statements like, "That's a stretch."
Ive not made any claims regarding 1.4 billion muslims and have only been speaking of their written doctrine.
"interpretations"??? You mean this arguement that none of the words have the plain meaning of the words, but instead are a metaphor for something else??? How about the absence of any other muslim interpreting these passages as metaphors and the abundance of Muslims who interpret the words to have their literal meaning. Ive offered the interpretations of Qutb Sayyid and Ambassador Sidi Haji Abdrahaman who both interpret the words to mean exactly what they say. I havent seen anybody offer anything that interprets the words otherwise...... or have you convinced yourself that the muslims are not capeable of interpreting the words and need you for guidance. Must admit Im impressed with the mental gymnastics you go through above to maintain your perception of the world.
MARK
vyo476
Well-Known Member
That's rather like a person burning an American flag and then saying he has nothing against Americans. These people follow the doctrine you hold to be evil and yet are peaceful. This is a paradox. Explain it.
That is an interpretation, yes. One of many.
If so many do interpret them that way, how come so comparatively few follow them?
You're the one who is claiming that Islam is "evil" and that it is not interpretative - that there is only one way to view it.
Must admit, I'm dismayed at the ability of close-minded plebs like yourself to maintain such a simplistic world view in the face of evidence that things might be a little more complicated than you thought.
Yeah, and Christians fornicate, who would of thought. Weve been over this. It is the "FUNDAMENTALIST" those who follow the literal meaning of the words who are causing the problem. Not all Muslims are fundamentalist. Is it that difficult for you to understand?
"World view"???? What nonsense. Ive given you my views of the written text of the koran and haddiths, not the world. Your the one seemingly trapped in a world view where nothing is as it seems.
I still havent seen any evidence. MARK
vyo476
Well-Known Member
Muslims are Muslims because they follow Islam. "Islam," then, is the sum of what they make of it. You say that Fundamentalists, who follow the literal meaning of the word, are the problem - and you are right. However, why is it that those who do not follow the literal meaning of the word - as you've admitted, the majority of Muslims - are wrong and Islam is "evil"?
You want to say that their holy books are flawed? Be my guest. I'll agree that they provide a groundwork for evil, but they themselves are not evil.
Islam doesn't kill people. People with Islam kill people.
Perhaps you have the ability to live outside of the world. That sounds awfully nice; out there, your words and actions don't have any consequences, do they?
Here in our world calling a religion "evil" has a lot of consequences. One of those is pissing off the people who follow that religion.
So you're an Aristotelian! How...quaint. I hate to have to burst your bubble, but the world quite often isn't what it seems at first.
I have clearly stated that my references to Islam refers to the doctrine.
Yeah, I suspected that all these mental gymnastics you go through to defend Islam are an attempt to avoid "pissing off" the peaceful muslims. Afraid they might revert to their doctrine?
MARK
My evidence is that I know Muslims who denounce terrorism and live good lives. Therefore, Islam is only evil if interpreted as such. The fact that these Muslims exist proves that.
As for personal attacks, I always thought calling me a limey brit and telling me to **** off was classed as one.
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vyo476
Well-Known Member
Way to ignore the question.
I'm afraid you might wind up pushing more moderate Muslims towards extremism. The extremists are relatively few right now but if people like you keep trashing their religion we'll probably see even more of a rise in their numbers.
But by all means, if there is a positive to be drawn from making the statement "Islam is evil," please, let me know what it is.
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