ISLAM is EVIL !

[jb_1430]

You really should get educated on the subject. Killing 'those who do not agree' is not sanctioned by the religion.

It would seem you really dont know anything about Islam and simply parroting what you have heard about Islam. Weve been over this before,

[9.5] So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
[9.29] Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

Feel free to post ANYTHING that contradicts my assertions, if you can.
MARK

 

[vyo476]

Noooooo, you were the one that added "only" to my description. MARK

So it is possible to be a good Muslim without becoming a terrorist, then?

 

[vyo476]

I thought that you were just arguing that muslim governments don't support terrorist and will arrest anyone who is involved with them.

That was actually Armchair_General who was talking about how murder is illegal in Islamic countries. Although it may be technically illegal, I think we all know just how much those governments care about that sort of thing if it is within their interests to look the other way.

Anyway, you dodged the question. Nice weasel tactics.

 

[9sublime]

OK, YES OR NO ANSWERS FROM ALL OF YOU.

A religion is only evil if the people who believe in it manipulate its scriptures to commit evil deeds. Those who live a good life (i.e. not a terrorist) are therefore not evil, and the religion they follow therefore is not evil either, because they have interpreted it differently. Agreed?

 

[vyo476]

I suppose the question we should be asking is: Is a religion simply the sum of its ancient religious texts or is what modern adherents make of it?

Palerider and jb highlight various violent aspects of the Muslim holy texts that are followed to the letter by a few extremists. In their eyes these extremists are the only "good Muslims."

9sublime and I highlight the peaceful lifestyles of the majority of Muslims and say that Islam should be defined by their values and actions, not the values and statements of documents that are thousands of years old and obviously not widely followed. We believe that the extremists, not representing the general will of most Muslims, are not "good Muslims."

I suppose that who is right and who is wrong is a matter of opinion. Here's the catch: So what? Hypothetically, lets say that pale rider and/or jb argued 9sublime and I down and we all agreed that "Islam is evil." Where do we go from there? What do we do? What is the point of this discussion?

 

[9sublime]

While all your points are excellent and I agree with them, you didn't give me a yes or no answer lol.

However, the reason we argue about this is because its a discussion forum.

And religion is simply what it is interpreted as by each individual, after all, its a load of man made bollocks anyway.

 

[jb_1430]

.

As Khaleel Muhammad, professor of religious studies at San Diego State University, ssaid, regarding his discussion with the critic Robert Spencer, that "when I am told ... that Jihad only means war,
In other words Mark, Your an ignorant fool.

Heres a good book you should read.

http://www.rezaaslan.com/nogodbutgod.html

Im not aware of anyone claiming that Jihad means only war. At the bottom are the first 7 results of a search of the Haddiths for Jihad. Here is about the 13th result and anyone can see that Jihad doesnt mean fighting for women.

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 43:
Narrated 'Aisha:

(That she said), "O Allah's Apostle! We consider Jihad as the best deed. Should we not fight in Allah's Cause?" He said, "The best Jihad (for women) is Hajj-Mabrur (i.e. Hajj which is done according to the Prophet's tradition and is accepted by Allah)."

The other passages leave no doubt that Jihad means fighting the unbelievers. Ignorant fool! MARK

Volume 1, Book 2, Number 25:
Narrated Abu Huraira:

Allah's Apostle was asked, "What is the best deed?" He replied, "To believe in Allah and His Apostle (Muhammad). The questioner then asked, "What is the next (in goodness)? He replied, "To participate in Jihad (religious fighting) in Allah's Cause."

Volume 1, Book 2, Number 35:
Narrated Abu Huraira:

The Prophet said, "The person who participates in (Holy battles) in Allah's cause and nothing compels him to do so except belief in Allah and His Apostles, will be recompensed by Allah either with a reward, or booty (if he survives) or will be admitted to Paradise (if he is killed in the battle as a martyr).

Volume 1, Book 10, Number 505:
Narrated 'Abdullah:

I asked the Prophet "Which deed is the dearest to Allah?" He replied, "To offer the prayers at their early stated fixed times." I asked, "What is the next (in goodness)?" He replied, "To be good and dutiful to your parents" I again asked, "What is the next (in goodness)?" He replied, 'To participate in Jihad (religious fighting) in Allah's cause."

Volume 2, Book 15, Number 86:
Narrated Ibn Abbas:

The Prophet said, "No good deeds done on other days are superior to those done on these (first ten days of Dhul Hijja)." Then some companions of the Prophet said, "Not even Jihad?" He replied, "Not even Jihad, except that of a man who does it by putting himself and his property in danger (for Allah's sake) and does not return with any of those things."


Volume 2, Book 24, Number 547:
Narrated Abu Huraira

Allah's Apostle (p.b.u.h) ordered (a person) to collect Zakat, and that person returned and told him that Ibn Jamil, Khalid bin Al-Walid, and Abbas bin 'Abdul Muttalib had refused to give Zakat." The Prophet said, "What made Ibn Jamll refuse to give Zakat though he was a poor man, and was made wealthy by Allah and His Apostle ? But you are unfair in asking Zakat from Khalid as he is keeping his armor for Allah's Cause (for Jihad).

Volume 2, Book 26, Number 594:
Narrated Abu Huraira:

The Prophet was asked, "Which is the best deed?" He said, "To believe in Allah and His Apostle." He was then asked, "Which is the next (in goodness)?" He said, "To participate in Jihad in Allah's Cause."

Volume 3, Book 29, Number 84:
Narrated Aisha (mother of the faithful believers):

I said, "O Allah's Apostle! Shouldn't we participate in Holy battles and Jihad along with you?" He replied, "The best and the most superior Jihad (for women) is Hajj which is accepted by Allah."
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/reference/searchhadith.html

 

[9sublime]

You still fail to see this very basic point Mark. Islam is only evil if interpreted as such.

 

[ArmChair General]

Im not aware of anyone claiming that Jihad means only war. At the bottom are the first 7 results of a search of the Haddiths for Jihad. Here is about the 13th result and anyone can see that Jihad doesnt mean fighting for women.

What?

The other passages leave no doubt that Jihad means fighting the unbelievers. Ignorant fool! MARK

Where, in any of those does it say anything about 'fighting the unbelievers'?

Jihad literally means to "struggle in the way of God".


Have you ever checked out the Islamic Military Jurisprudence? (The Basic Sharia Laws Governing Warfare?)

 

[jb_1430]

So it is possible to be a good Muslim without becoming a terrorist, then?

Well, I generally wouldnt pass judgement on anyone as to whether they were a "good" member of any religion, but would assume, that those who adhere to ALL the written doctrine are judged as good, and not a bunch of "crazies".

MARK

 

[9sublime]

Well your wrong mate. If thats the case, a good Christian should believe in the ark, Adam and Eve and not touch a woman during her menstrual period.

 

[jb_1430]

What?
Where, in any of those does it say anything about 'fighting the unbelievers'?

How about the first one-

"What is the next (in goodness)? He replied,
"To participate in Jihad (religious fighting) in Allah's Cause."

And from the Koran-

[9.123] O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil).

Jihad literally means to "struggle in the way of God".
Have you ever checked out the Islamic Military Jurisprudence? (The Basic Sharia Laws Governing Warfare?)

Yes, and the verses from the haddiths demonstrate the form that the "struggle" most often takes. And Ive read all the haddiths. Milestones, 4th chapter discusses the rules of jihad.

http://www.youngmuslims.ca/online_library/books/milestones/hold/chapter_4.asp
In this respect, the people with whom there were treaties were divided into three categories: The first, those who broke the treaty and did not fulfill its terms. He was ordered to fight against them; he fought with them and was victorious. The second were those with whom the treaty was made for a stated term; they had not broken this treaty nor helped anyone against the Prophet - peace be on him - Concerning them, God ordered that these treaties be completed to their full term. The third kind were those with whom there was neither a treaty nor were they fighting against the Prophet-peace be on him-, or those with whom no term of expiration was stated. Concerning these, it was commanded that they be given four months' notice of expiration, at the end of which they should be considered open enemies and fought with.

http://www.youngmuslims.ca/online_library/books/milestones/hold/chapter_4.asp

You do seem pretty secure in your state of denial. I doubt I could show you anything to convince you otherwise. MARK

 

[jb_1430]

You still fail to see this very basic point Mark. Islam is only evil if interpreted as such.

I would say that makes the interpretation of Islam not evil. The words remain the same.
Youve just heard the claim repeated so many times, that the terrorist are twisting or perverting the doctrine, that you accept it as fact. Dont believe everything the President tells you. MARK

 

[jb_1430]

Well your wrong mate. If thats the case, a good Christian should believe in the ark, Adam and Eve and not touch a woman during her menstrual period.

I think your brain must have inserted into my comments that word "only" again. MARK

 

[jb_1430]

I suppose the question we should be asking is: Is a religion simply the sum of its ancient religious texts or is what modern adherents make of it?

My references to "Islam" refer to the doctrine. MARK