Vote Gary Johnson!!!

[Pandora]

So let me get this straight. From this whole discussion looks like two wrongs do make a right??? It was wrong to vote for Obama back in 08 just like its wrong to vote for him again and Romney but since there's no other alternative I guess the lesser of two evil's prevails. Got it...So let me ask you all this. If Gary Johnson told you that you don't have to jump of the same cliff like everyone else you guys would still do it???

So lets say 5% of republicans vote for Gary Johnson instead of Romney and another 3% vote for Ron Paul, then what? What does that gain you? Gary Johnsons own running mate said the best they are hoping for is to get 5% of the vote so that next time around they can join in on the debates.

Is that what you are hoping for?

 

[K.Cantu]

So lets say 5% of republicans vote for Gary Johnson instead of Romney and another 3% vote for Ron Paul, then what? What does that gain you? Gary Johnsons own running mate said the best they are hoping for is to get 5% of the vote so that next time around they can join in on the debates.

Is that what you are hoping for?

Maybe if the people who make the rules for participating in debates would allow third party candidates to join then 5% wouldn't be necessary wouldn't you agree? I'm hoping for America to finally wake up from this two party nightmare and see them for what they really are. Let me ask you this Pandora. Do you believe that our Democratic process is fair in anyway in regards to third party participation? Be honest because it's not. How come those with the largest amounts of money and influence can make up the rules as they go and allow only those select few to participate in our elections. Gary Johnson call's it for what it is and I think it's rather funny that more Conservatives are hell bent against Libertarians then they are against Liberals. The proof is in the pudding and you can see how they shafted Ron Paul at the Republican Convention in Tampa. Now tell me that ain't the case?

 

[Pandora]

Maybe if the people who make the rules for participating in debates would allow third party candidates to join then 5% wouldn't be necessary wouldn't you agree? I'm hoping for America to finally wake up from this two party nightmare and see them for what they really are. Let me ask you this Pandora. Do you believe that our Democratic process is fair in anyway in regards to third party participation? Be honest because it's not. How come those with the largest amounts of money and influence can make up the rules as they go and allow only those select few to participate in our elections. Gary Johnson call's it for what it is and I think it's rather funny that more Conservatives are hell bent against Libertarians then they are against Liberals. The proof is in the pudding and you can see how they shafted Ron Paul at the Republican Convention in Tampa. Now tell me that ain't the case?

I agree that 3d party people should be able to participate in the debates. But thus far they have not and as hard as you try, if you are lucky you will get 4-5% of the republicans to vote with you. So in the end what do you get? We need a change, I do not disagree but first we have to have the change from the bottom.



Start now on helping to make laws that let 3d party people be in the debates next go around. That is something that you should have been working on 4-8 years ago if changing the system was what you were trying to do. 3 weeks before an election isn't the time or the place to start.



I am sorry. But he is not going to get elected. Though I do see you having a chance on the next go around if you start now.



I think Ron Paul didn’t get good treatment because even though 95% of what he believes is really good stuff, the 5% of his foreign policy is flat nutty. And he is really hard to take seriously. He was kind of a joke in the debates IMO



I am sure you realize that he isn’t going to win and I keep asking you how exactly voting for him over Romney will benefit us and you have not answered me. Let’s say he even gets half of Romney’s votes (isn’t going to happen) but let’s say it does, then what?

 

[Cruella]

How many elections has Ron Paul run in now? Not all were as a Republican. They guy needs to get a clue.

 

[K.Cantu]

I agree that 3d party people should be able to participate in the debates. But thus far they have not and as hard as you try, if you are lucky you will get 4-5% of the republicans to vote with you. So in the end what do you get? We need a change, I do not disagree but first we have to have the change from the bottom.



Start now on helping to make laws that let 3d party people be in the debates next go around. That is something that you should have been working on 4-8 years ago if changing the system was what you were trying to do. 3 weeks before an election isn't the time or the place to start.



I am sorry. But he is not going to get elected. Though I do see you having a chance on the next go around if you start now.



I think Ron Paul didn’t get good treatment because even though 95% of what he believes is really good stuff, the 5% of his foreign policy is flat nutty. And he is really hard to take seriously. He was kind of a joke in the debates IMO



I am sure you realize that he isn’t going to win and I keep asking you how exactly voting for him over Romney will benefit us and you have not answered me. Let’s say he even gets half of Romney’s votes (isn’t going to happen) but let’s say it does, then what?

And how is voting for Romney or Obama going to be any different? Your voting for Romney because you don't like Obama I get that. But why is my vote for Gary Johnson a wasted vote? Romney hasn't proved anything to me and let's just say Romney does win. You really believe he's going to get anything accomplished? Compromise is bad word among both parties. By the way what's wrong with countries building their own schools and roads without U.S. Tax payer dollars? What's wrong with us trying to get out of the U.N? Isn't NATO big enough to fend for itself. Can't Japan defend it's own island without trying to get into a skirmish with china? How many more bases can we afford over seas since we're in so much debt? How are we going to pay for the next war when all I hear form the left and the right is that we don't have the money to pay for anything??? I can give you 16 trillion reasons why we need take care of our own. Since when do we let Politicians like McCain, Graham and Libeirman decide what wars we should engage in while at the same time rail against our national debt. Ron Paul's foreign policy is spot on and hell even his son called out Romney for his speech on foreign policy. Pandora...you tell me how we can continue to pay for other countries to take care of their infrastructure while we slowly watch ours wither away.

 

[Pandora]

And how is voting for Romney or Obama going to be any different? Your voting for Romney because you don't like Obama I get that. But why is my vote for Gary Johnson a wasted vote? Romney hasn't proved anything to me and let's just say Romney does win. You really believe he's going to get anything accomplished? Compromise is bad word among both parties. By the way what's wrong with countries building their own schools and roads without U.S. Tax payer dollars? What's wrong with us trying to get out of the U.N? Isn't NATO big enough to fend for itself. Can't Japan defend it's own island without trying to get into a skirmish with china? How many more bases can we afford over seas since we're in so much debt? How are we going to pay for the next war when all I hear form the left and the right is that we don't have the money to pay for anything??? I can give you 16 trillion reasons why we need take care of our own. Since when do we let Politicians like McCain, Graham and Libeirman decide what wars we should engage in while at the same time rail against our national debt. Ron Paul's foreign policy is spot on and hell even his son called out Romney for his speech on foreign policy. Pandora...you tell me how we can continue to pay for other countries to take care of their infrastructure while we slowly watch ours wither away.

I don’t think you should vote for Romney or Obama if neither agree with you at all politically. I only say your vote is wasted because I can guarantee you that he isn’t going to win. Now for me it would be a terrible waste of my vote because Romney has a chance, a good chance and he is nowhere near as bad as Obama. To vote for anyone but Romney will mean I helped re elect Obama and I sure don’t want that on my conscience. But if you were not going to vote for either of them anyways then voting for anyone else is a good idea, why not Ron Paul? He will get more votes than Johnson.



If you think there is no difference between Romney and Obama then I don’t think there is any point going on in this thread. Its just silly really to think they are the same in any meaningful way.



And so I have asked you 3 times what’s the game plan after election day when your guy doesn’t just not win but doesn’t even get enough votes to be taken seriously… but you still don’t really give me an answer on what exactly it is you are realistically hoping for on election day, or what you are planning next.

 

[K.Cantu]

I don’t think you should vote for Romney or Obama if neither agree with you at all politically. I only say your vote is wasted because I can guarantee you that he isn’t going to win. Now for me it would be a terrible waste of my vote because Romney has a chance, a good chance and he is nowhere near as bad as Obama. To vote for anyone but Romney will mean I helped re elect Obama and I sure don’t want that on my conscience. But if you were not going to vote for either of them anyways then voting for anyone else is a good idea, why not Ron Paul? He will get more votes than Johnson.



If you think there is no difference between Romney and Obama then I don’t think there is any point going on in this thread. Its just silly really to think they are the same in any meaningful way.



And so I have asked you 3 times what’s the game plan after election day when your guy doesn’t just not win but doesn’t even get enough votes to be taken seriously… but you still don’t really give me an answer on what exactly it is you are realistically hoping for on election day, or what you are planning next.

Nothing will change because I know our candidate won't win because the cards are so stacked against him. You know this so why ask the question? but you still haven't answered mine? Do you think our democratic process is fair in regards to third party candidates? I already know the answer to it but I like to hear the response because the more excuses Democrats and Republicans make about why third parties don't matter. The more it emboldens us to prove you all wrong.

 

[Pandora]

Nothing will change because I know our candidate won't win because the cards are so stacked against him. You know this so why ask the question? but you still haven't answered mine? Do you think our democratic process is fair in regards to third party candidates? I already know the answer to it but I like to hear the response because the more excuses Democrats and Republicans make about why third parties don't matter. The more it emboldens us to prove you all wrong.

I did answer your question, I said no it is not fair and that it should be changed but you change it from the bottom up not top down and not 3 weeks before an election. You should have been working on this for the last 4-8 years, not 3 weeks before an election.



Ok so you admit nothing will change or be any different the day after Gary Johnson does not win. So why are you going on about it?



Vote for him if you want but why are you trying to suck more votes away from Romney for Johnson?



And why the hell are you just not advocating for Ron Paul? He already has a recognizable name, backing, support and bumper stickers!

 

[dogtowner]

So let me get this straight. From this whole discussion looks like two wrongs do make a right??? It was wrong to vote for Obama back in 08 just like its wrong to vote for him again and Romney but since there's no other alternative I guess the lesser of two evil's prevails. Got it...So let me ask you all this. If Gary Johnson told you that you don't have to jump of the same cliff like everyone else you guys would still do it???

you votefor who best can represent your interests. one cannot represent anything if you cannot win.

 

[K.Cantu]

you votefor who best can represent your interests. one cannot represent anything if you cannot win.

Kinda hard to win a game when the rules keep changing they way they do right? I'll ask you this Dogtowner. Tell me with a straight face that we have FAIR democratic process that allows for third parties in this country.You know maybe if we big money spenders like the Koch Brother's or George Soro's this discussion would be totally different. Thank god for citizens united huh?

 

[GenSeneca]

Tell me with a straight face that we have FAIR democratic process that allows for third parties in this country.

And...? Newsflash: Life isn't fair... Throwing a temper tantrum about that inescapable fact of life does nothing to support or promote the Libertarian cause or it's candidates, it just turns people off. I say that as a long time supporter of the LP (especially Ron Paul). My biggest complaint about the LP are their loud mouthed supporters who just love to be as obnoxious as they can be in front cameras and crowds... they do more to drive away voters and keep the LP relegated to joke status than anything the D's or R's do to thwart LP success.

Dog and Panda are right, if you want Libertarians to be successful, you have to start winning elections on the local levels and work your way up to the national stage. In the short term: Most states have a bicameral system, focus on winning 1/3 of the House in each state, that will set things in motion for winning on the national stage.

Mid term: If the LP were to get 25-33% of the House of Representatives in the US Congress, then the LP would be taken seriously on the national stage and their presidential Candidates would be participating in the debates. The LP could accomplish those goals if it focused on local elections and put in the ground work necessary for such victories.

Winning the presidency is a LONG term proposition. The LP will have to take a long hard road if it ever wants to sit in the White House. Even if, by some miracle, Gary Johnson won... Both the establishment parties, who hold both houses of Congress, would unite against him and NONE of the legislative goals the LP wants to see accomplished would get done.

Welcome to reality.

 

[K.Cantu]

And...? Newsflash: Life isn't fair... Throwing a temper tantrum about that inescapable fact of life does nothing to support or promote the Libertarian cause or it's candidates, it just turns people off. I say that as a long time supporter of the LP (especially Ron Paul). My biggest complaint about the LP are their loud mouthed supporters who just love to be as obnoxious as they can be in front cameras and crowds... they do more to drive away voters and keep the LP relegated to joke status than anything the D's or R's do to thwart LP success.

Dog and Panda are right, if you want Libertarians to be successful, you have to start winning elections on the local levels and work your way up to the national stage. In the short term: Most states have a bicameral system, focus on winning 1/3 of the House in each state, that will set things in motion for winning on the national stage.

Mid term: If the LP were to get 25-33% of the House of Representatives in the US Congress, then the LP would be taken seriously on the national stage and their presidential Candidates would be participating in the debates. The LP could accomplish those goals if it focused on local elections and put in the ground work necessary for such victories.

Winning the presidency is a LONG term proposition. The LP will have to take a long hard road if it ever wants to sit in the White House. Even if, by some miracle, Gary Johnson won... Both the establishment parties, who hold both houses of Congress, would unite against him and NONE of the legislative goals the LP wants to see accomplished would get done.

Welcome to reality.

Throwing a temper tantrum...Who's trying to label who there GenSeneca...All you con's and rep's have been nothing more then straight up pissed ever since I showed up on these boards. You have Dogtowner resorting to name calling. Texas-Tea looks like he's about to throw a conniption fit and now you want to throw your two sense in. So your suggestion that Libertarians just stick to Local and state elections?!? Wow you guys that afraid of us??? I mean what else is there after local and state elections??? We're not going to allow you guys to regulate us like you have the Republicans. You want call me out on our issues then do some research on Libertarian and quit drinking the cool-aid from your side and try thinking for yourself for once. Also Panda hasn't answered my question as to whether our democratic process is fair when it comes to third party candidates. Maye you can help her out on this one because maybe she's confused about it which I could honestly understand. Look you can cry and whin and complain about Libertarians all you want. Like my Candidate said we're the future and you guys are going out like the dinosaurs. Both Democrats and Republicans. LIVE FREE!!!

 

[Pandora]

Also Panda hasn't answered my question as to whether our democratic process is fair when it comes to third party candidates. Maye you can help her out on this one because maybe she's confused about it which I could honestly understand. Look you can cry and whin and complain about Libertarians all you want. Like my Candidate said we're the future and you guys are going out like the dinosaurs. Both Democrats and Republicans. LIVE FREE!!!

FOR THE THIRD TIME

NO

IT IS NOT FAIR

FOR THE THIRD TIME

THE SYSTEM NEEDS TO BE CHANGED

FOR THE THIRD TIME

YOU CANT WAIT 3 WEEKS BEFORE AN ELECTION AND THINK VOTING FOR SOME GUY WHO CAN NOT WIN IS GOING TO CHANGE ANYTHING

FOR THE THIRD TIME

YOU SHOULD HAVE BEEN WORKING ON THIS 4 YEARS AGO OR 8 YEARS AGO

FOR THE THIRD TIME

YOU NEED TO START NOW IN A GRASS ROOTS WAY GETTING LIBERTARIANS ELECTED TO CITY STATE AND LOCAL POSITIONS THEN MOVE THEM UP TO NATIONAL POSITIONS, GET YOUR MESSAGE OUT AND PERHAPS THE NEXT GO AROUND YOU WILL HAVE A STRONG CANDIDATE

Sorry for all the caps but I feel like screaming to you because I have said this two other times in the other two threads you asked me this same question in.

There needs to be reform, yes of course but 3 weeks before an election is not the time or the place.

now all three times I have answered your question I have also asked one...

When Gary Johnson does not win and he wont, what next?

 

[K.Cantu]

FOR THE THIRD TIME

NO

IT IS NOT FAIR

FOR THE THIRD TIME

THE SYSTEM NEEDS TO BE CHANGED

FOR THE THIRD TIME

YOU CANT WAIT 3 WEEKS BEFORE AN ELECTION AND THINK VOTING FOR SOME GUY WHO CAN NOT WIN IS GOING TO CHANGE ANYTHING

FOR THE THIRD TIME

YOU SHOULD HAVE BEEN WORKING ON THIS 4 YEARS AGO OR 8 YEARS AGO

FOR THE THIRD TIME

YOU NEED TO START NOW IN A GRASS ROOTS WAY GETTING LIBERTARIANS ELECTED TO CITY STATE AND LOCAL POSITIONS THEN MOVE THEM UP TO NATIONAL POSITIONS, GET YOUR MESSAGE OUT AND PERHAPS THE NEXT GO AROUND YOU WILL HAVE A STRONG CANDIDATE

Sorry for all the caps but I feel like screaming to you because I have said this two other times in the other two threads you asked me this same question in.

There needs to be reform, yes of course but 3 weeks before an election is not the time or the place.

now all three times I have answered your question I have also asked one...

When Gary Johnson does not win and he wont, what next?

Your getting angry for the wrong reason and at the wrong people. Libertarians have been around for a very long time and not with the last three weeks. And I answered your question and your obviously having a hard time with the answer. But you already know the answer and it hurts to know the truth. LIVE FREE!!!

 

[Pandora]

Your getting angry for the wrong reason and at the wrong people. Libertarians have been around for a very long time and not with the last three weeks. And I answered your question and your obviously having a hard time with the answer. But you already know the answer and it hurts to know the truth. LIVE FREE!!!

I am not angry at all, just fustrated that you keep saying I didnt answer your question.



I know that libertarians have been around longer than 3 weeks. I am talking about you personally who comes here 3 weeks before an election trying your best to get everyone to vote for someone who cant win.


Now you claim that you have answered mine. Please show me where you answered mine. I took the time to tell you my answer three times, please repeat your answer for me.


After the election when Gary Johnson does not win. What next? What is the game plan for you???