The useless war against drugs in Mexico

[PLC1]

Stay with me now.

Please see this: http://www.bobbeauprez.com/policy/most-expensive—and-least-successful—war-us-history



Now has the US government spent more on the war on drugs or the war on poverty?

I don't know. Obviously, a lot of money has been spent on the failed war on poverty. A lot has been spent on the failed war on drugs also. I'm not sure if anyone has actually added up the cost of law enforcement, incarceration, and intercepting of drugs. Those costs are born by the federal, state, and local governments.

Why argue over which program is the costliest? Both are way too expensive and yield little or no return.

Rather than a war on drugs and a war on poverty, let's wage a war on common sense.

War on drugs = more drugs
War on poverty = more poverty
War on common sense = more common sense?

It's worth a try. One thing we could use more of is common sense.

 

[ktucan1]

My my...we will be great friends.

My avatar is not The Great Ronald Reagan. It is the murdering Che. Don't tell me you do not know him.

I did not bash the poor. I merely pointed out the outrageous cost of welfare. But you being a lib naturally believe a conservative bashes the poor by pointing out the cost. Silly yes?

See the thread "costliest war" from Jan of this year. You will see many silly comments like yours.

Why do libs always respond so similarly? I guess it is the brainwashing they have endured.

Just like the libs don't bash the rich right? Yeah nice try with the labeling by the way and yeah I see that is Che and you must be a great admirer of him. I mean for a so called CONSERVATIVE to even have him as an avatar says a lot about you Sir. The only brainwashing here is the fact that you believe half of everything you say on these boards. Yeah the war on drugs is a waste of time and effort not to mention money. So I guess according to con's like your self(See what I did there) you whole solution to the problem is to continue to throw money at it. How about the money we spend on the war on drugs be better spent on securing our borders and while we're at it why don't we use that 59 billion dollars just passed for Iraq and Afghanistan and use that as well on our borders. Sorry if I sound like a conservative on the latter but when your a moderate like myself you can pick and choose your evil as you like and when you like. You know something Gipper deep down inside you a Liberal screaming to get out....You just don't know how to go about it.

 

[Gipper]

Just like the libs don't bash the rich right? Yeah nice try with the labeling by the way and yeah I see that is Che and you must be a great admirer of him. I mean for a so called CONSERVATIVE to even have him as an avatar says a lot about you Sir. The only brainwashing here is the fact that you believe half of everything you say on these boards. Yeah the war on drugs is a waste of time and effort not to mention money. So I guess according to con's like your self(See what I did there) you whole solution to the problem is to continue to throw money at it. How about the money we spend on the war on drugs be better spent on securing our borders and while we're at it why don't we use that 59 billion dollars just passed for Iraq and Afghanistan and use that as well on our borders. Sorry if I sound like a conservative on the latter but when your a moderate like myself you can pick and choose your evil as you like and when you like. You know something Gipper deep down inside you a Liberal screaming to get out....You just don't know how to go about it.

Oh forgive me for jumping to conclusions. It was sorta like you claiming I BASH THE POOR BY POSTING THE COST OF THE WAR ON POVERTY (see what I did there???)...

I assumed you were are lib based on your silly response. I guess moderates do the same thing.

And you can call me conservative all day long. Label me conservative. I am cool with it.

There is that label thing again. Why do libs not like being called libs?

 

[ktucan1]

Oh forgive me for jumping to conclusions. It was sorta like you claiming I BASH THE POOR BY POSTING THE COST OF THE WAR ON POVERTY (see what I did there???)...

I assumed you were are lib based on your silly response. I guess moderates do the same thing.

And you can call me conservative all day long. Label me conservative. I am cool with it.

There is that label thing again. Why do libs not like being called libs?

Don't assume Gipper because when you do you make an A$$ out yourself like the old saying goes. Yes I'm a moderate and I know that terrifies you as it should. People like you like to label everybody who disagrees with you as a lib well now, is that the best you got? What's your solution to our ailing economy? Oh yeah TAX CUTS all around....You know trickle down economics and all the SOS that the right likes to spew out as the only cure....Just how would we pay for it? I mean all day long I hear that we don't have money to spend but some how we have money for Tax Cuts and hell even the war on drugs. While were at it we even have money for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Wow.....But we don't have money for securing our borders or dishing out unemployment benefits but somehow the magic money tree seems to sprout at the right moment for everything else the Democrats and Republicans hold near and dear to their cold evil hearts. Come up with some solutions Gipper and please spare us the name calling I mean leave that to the KIDS at the NAACP and the Tea Party. If they ain't calling you a racist then they are calling you a communist or a socialist. Reagan is still dead Gipper so you need to let go

 

[OldTrapper]

Don't assume Gipper because when you do you make an A$$ out yourself like the old saying goes. Yes I'm a moderate and I know that terrifies you as it should. People like you like to label everybody who disagrees with you as a lib well now, is that the best you got? What's your solution to our ailing economy? Oh yeah TAX CUTS all around....You know trickle down economics and all the SOS that the right likes to spew out as the only cure....Just how would we pay for it? I mean all day long I hear that we don't have money to spend but some how we have money for Tax Cuts and hell even the war on drugs. While were at it we even have money for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Wow.....But we don't have money for securing our borders or dishing out unemployment benefits but somehow the magic money tree seems to sprout at the right moment for everything else the Democrats and Republicans hold near and dear to their cold evil hearts. Come up with some solutions Gipper and please spare us the name calling I mean leave that to the KIDS at the NAACP and the Tea Party. If they ain't calling you a racist then they are calling you a communist or a socialist. Reagan is still dead Gipper so you need to let go

Like it or not, labels are a necessity for the identification of different forms of thought. Using your "logic" names for individuals would be unnecessary. I have often found that those who are most opposed to "labels" fear the exposure such labels would bring. Having said that, it is not the use of labels that is offensive, it is the misuse of said labels.

As to your reasoning about spending, the one reason we do not have any money for various programs is not the war, or the military. It is social programs that eat up about 70% of the budget, and most of those programs are redundent. Do a search of "head start" as an example. What started out as a single program to give lower income children a "leg up" in education now contains some 223 different programs from school lunches, meals on wheels, meals on Indian reservations, etc. All of these programs require bureaucrats for the administration of said program. Take the USDA where there is one bureaucrat for every 12 farmers. Then there are programs like the jobs retraining sector. We now have some 56 different programs most of which are copies of other programs. Again, it is the expansion of the bureaucracy.

Now, "tax cuts" do not cost the govertnment anything. This is another illusion being propagated by the progressive socialist. Kind of like the times they say spending on a program is being "cut" when reality shows it is not a cut in the program, just a cut in the increased spending on that program.

Bottom line, tax cuts do not cost the government a damn thing. What they do is limit the amount of money the government can steal from the wage earner, and limit the amount of money they have to spend, just as tax increases decrease the amount of money the private sector has to spend. And, it is the private sector that will improve the economy through the creation of jobs, not the government who can produce no income on its own. And anyone who believes otherwise is just plain ignorant.

Answer to the debt is to cut spending by government, and increase available income to the private sector. However, this is something this government will never do as long as it is controlled by the Progressive/Socialist in BOTH parties, and not controlled by the people as originally intended.

 

[Gipper]

Like it or not, labels are a necessity for the identification of different forms of thought. Using your "logic" names for individuals would be unnecessary. I have often found that those who are most opposed to "labels" fear the exposure such labels would bring. Having said that, it is not the use of labels that is offensive, it is the misuse of said labels.

As to your reasoning about spending, the one reason we do not have any money for various programs is not the war, or the military. It is social programs that eat up about 70% of the budget, and most of those programs are redundent. Do a search of "head start" as an example. What started out as a single program to give lower income children a "leg up" in education now contains some 223 different programs from school lunches, meals on wheels, meals on Indian reservations, etc. All of these programs require bureaucrats for the administration of said program. Take the USDA where there is one bureaucrat for every 12 farmers. Then there are programs like the jobs retraining sector. We now have some 56 different programs most of which are copies of other programs. Again, it is the expansion of the bureaucracy.

Now, "tax cuts" do not cost the govertnment anything. This is another illusion being propagated by the progressive socialist. Kind of like the times they say spending on a program is being "cut" when reality shows it is not a cut in the program, just a cut in the increased spending on that program.

Bottom line, tax cuts do not cost the government a damn thing. What they do is limit the amount of money the government can steal from the wage earner, and limit the amount of money they have to spend, just as tax increases decrease the amount of money the private sector has to spend. And, it is the private sector that will improve the economy through the creation of jobs, not the government who can produce no income on its own. And anyone who believes otherwise is just plain ignorant.

Answer to the debt is to cut spending by government, and increase available income to the private sector. However, this is something this government will never do as long as it is controlled by the Progressive/Socialist in BOTH parties, and not controlled by the people as originally intended.

Well said Trap. Tax cuts almost always result in an increase in revenues to Treasury. History proves this occurred during the presidencies of Coolidge, JFK, and The Great Reagan. Just as tax increases have the reverse effect. But, libs have been told tax cuts are evil and they believe it.
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Reports/2004/06/The-Laffer-Curve-Past-Present-and-Future

The Laffer Curve graphically depicts what happens when lib/progressive politicians raise taxes too high.

 

[ktucan1]

Like it or not, labels are a necessity for the identification of different forms of thought. Using your "logic" names for individuals would be unnecessary. I have often found that those who are most opposed to "labels" fear the exposure such labels would bring. Having said that, it is not the use of labels that is offensive, it is the misuse of said labels.

As to your reasoning about spending, the one reason we do not have any money for various programs is not the war, or the military. It is social programs that eat up about 70% of the budget, and most of those programs are redundent. Do a search of "head start" as an example. What started out as a single program to give lower income children a "leg up" in education now contains some 223 different programs from school lunches, meals on wheels, meals on Indian reservations, etc. All of these programs require bureaucrats for the administration of said program. Take the USDA where there is one bureaucrat for every 12 farmers. Then there are programs like the jobs retraining sector. We now have some 56 different programs most of which are copies of other programs. Again, it is the expansion of the bureaucracy.

Now, "tax cuts" do not cost the govertnment anything. This is another illusion being propagated by the progressive socialist. Kind of like the times they say spending on a program is being "cut" when reality shows it is not a cut in the program, just a cut in the increased spending on that program.

Bottom line, tax cuts do not cost the government a damn thing. What they do is limit the amount of money the government can steal from the wage earner, and limit the amount of money they have to spend, just as tax increases decrease the amount of money the private sector has to spend. And, it is the private sector that will improve the economy through the creation of jobs, not the government who can produce no income on its own. And anyone who believes otherwise is just plain ignorant.

Answer to the debt is to cut spending by government, and increase available income to the private sector. However, this is something this government will never do as long as it is controlled by the Progressive/Socialist in BOTH parties, and not controlled by the people as originally intended.

I'll raise you your coveted tax cuts against the money to securing our borders. I say spend that money for tax cuts on securing on borders. Let's see what you con's have to say about that. Let's see where your priorities lie. I don't need to call out the lib's because at the moment I don't feel like losing brain cells but I sure as hell will call out you con's on this....So let's see whats more important to you????

 

[OldTrapper]

I'll raise you your coveted tax cuts against the money to securing our borders. I say spend that money for tax cuts on securing on borders. Let's see what you con's have to say about that. Let's see where your priorities lie. I don't need to call out the lib's because at the moment I don't feel like losing brain cells but I sure as hell will call out you con's on this....So let's see whats more important to you????

I notice that you make no mention of cutting government programs, and the waste contained therein. This is typical of the "moderate" who in reality is a Progressive/Socialist.

We have a trillion dollar deficit looking at us for the each year over the next ten years, and the only answer you have is to raise taxes. Now, obviously, it will not effect you since you are probably benefitting from those programs, however, nothing you have said refutes what I posted.

As to the border, even during the Bush years it was the "cons" that wanted to secure the border, and it was even started. Yet it was the liberal, and the moderate, that opposed it. Now they want to use it as an excuse to increase taxes. Amazing how they will use any excuse to increase the burden on the people, stifle job creation, and then politicize an issue for their own gain.

So, what is more important to you? Cutting government waste, cutting the government bureaucracy, cutting spending overall, or increasing taxes?

Put up, or shut up.

 

[Gipper]

Libs like to say the Bush tax cuts caused the deficit. Yet, every analysis I have read does not reach this conclusion. And, commonsense tells you this is BS.

What is not well understood, is if taxes are high the wealthy seek "alternatives" to avoid the tax or they do not work as hard knowing that a large percentage of their income will be confiscated. Sort of like John F-ing Kerry moving his huge yacht out of state to avoid the tax. F-ing hypocrite!!!

The Great Ronald Reagan cut the top tax rate from a whopping 70% to 28%. The result was a booming economy the envy of the world for two decades. And, ALL Americans benefited. Supply side economics works, but the left has said it doesn't so many times, their foolish followers believe.

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.” Nazi Goebbels

 

[ktucan1]

I notice that you make no mention of cutting government programs, and the waste contained therein. This is typical of the "moderate" who in reality is a Progressive/Socialist.

We have a trillion dollar deficit looking at us for the each year over the next ten years, and the only answer you have is to raise taxes. Now, obviously, it will not effect you since you are probably benefitting from those programs, however, nothing you have said refutes what I posted.

As to the border, even during the Bush years it was the "cons" that wanted to secure the border, and it was even started. Yet it was the liberal, and the moderate, that opposed it. Now they want to use it as an excuse to increase taxes. Amazing how they will use any excuse to increase the burden on the people, stifle job creation, and then politicize an issue for their own gain.

So, what is more important to you? Cutting government waste, cutting the government bureaucracy, cutting spending overall, or increasing taxes?

Put up, or shut up.

And this coming from a racist .....So if you want to call me a socialist then I'll do you back in kind. Your a racist. Hell I'm pull out the race card and tell you to your face....You hate Obama because he's black. Admit it. You see how stupid that sounds. You like to call people names who disagree with you so I'll do you right back. Here some advice...Fear the moderates and the independents. We decide whether or not you get back congress. We decide whether or not you get the white house. WE DECIDE.....OldTrapper quit being such a racist Sir it's doesn't do you any justice. By the way please cut Social Security, Please cut medicare and medicaid. Can you please cut the defense budget that includes money for Iraq and Afghanistan too while your at it. I'll support your tax cuts as soon as every other con and rep cuts those things I just described. Better yet lets use your proposed tax cuts on securing our borders. I mean so what if the 1% of the population doesn't get their tax cut. I figured they would want more border security instead of their money back. Wouldn't you agree???


Here's the budget for 2011 while your at Genius....Could you please point the portion of the defense budget that doesn't use tax payer dollars for anything?

http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/overview/


Also sticks and stones Brah!!!ROFLMAO

 

[OldTrapper]

And this coming from a racist .....So if you want to call me a socialist then I'll do you back in kind. Your a racist. Hell I'm pull out the race card and tell you to your face....You hate Obama because he's black. Admit it. You see how stupid that sounds. You like to call people names who disagree with you so I'll do you right back. Here some advice...Fear the moderates and the independents. We decide whether or not you get back congress. We decide whether or not you get the white house. WE DECIDE.....OldTrapper quit being such a racist Sir it's doesn't do you any justice.

Since I never used race, or even mentioned Obama, your rant just shows the weakness of your argument.

However, I might add that Obama consistently uses race as an attack against his opponents just as he did during the campaign.

By the way please cut Social Security, Please cut medicare and medicaid.

All three will be broke in less then 20 years. Then what will you do?

Can you please cut the defense budget that includes money for Iraq and Afghanistan too while your at it.

Where did I say that taxpayer dollars were not used for the military, etc.? All I pointed out to you was the reality that less then 20% of the budget goes to military.

I'll support your tax cuts as soon as every other con and rep cuts those things I just described.

No you won't. You want higher taxes, and more social spending.

Better yet lets use your proposed tax cuts on securing our borders. I mean so what if the 1% of the population doesn't get their tax cut. I figured they would want more border security instead of their money back. Wouldn't you agree???

Why not put the military on the border, and save the expense of building useless fences, or other devices?

Here's the budget for 2011 while your at Genius....Could you please point the portion of the defense budget that doesn't use tax payer dollars for anything?

http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/overview/

Never said it didn't.


Also sticks and stones Brah!!!ROFLMAO[/QUOTE]

 

[ktucan1]

Since I never used race, or even mentioned Obama, your rant just shows the weakness of your argument.

However, I might add that Obama consistently uses race as an attack against his opponents just as he did during the campaign.




All three will be broke in less then 20 years. Then what will you do?



Where did I say that taxpayer dollars were not used for the military, etc.? All I pointed out to you was the reality that less then 20% of the budget goes to military.



No you won't. You want higher taxes, and more social spending.





Why not put the military on the border, and save the expense of building useless fences, or other devices?




Never said it didn't.


Also sticks and stones Brah!!!ROFLMAO

[/QUOTE]

Nah I want your tax cuts to pay for putting the military on the border. I don't think the 1% in this country deserve to enjoy their own money while we have narco cartels along our borders who want to destroy this country more then Al Qieda. Your delusional because you have made comments about our budget not including money for defense. Denial is a river in Egypt. by the way as much as you like to call people communist and a socialist who disagree with you. You guys on the right have been making it about race ever since Obama came into office. Quit calling people names that disagree with you and people like my self will stop on our end. As far as SS, medicare and medicaid goes I bet your one of those individuals who suck off on that tit and take more out of it then put back in it. By the way sticks and stones BRAH!

 

[Gipper]

Nah I want your tax cuts to pay for putting the military on the border. I don't think the 1% in this country deserve to enjoy their own money while we have narco cartels along our borders who want to destroy this country more then Al Qieda. Your delusional because you have made comments about our budget not including money for defense. Denial is a river in Egypt. by the way as much as you like to call people communist and a socialist who disagree with you. You guys on the right have been making it about race ever since Obama came into office. Quit calling people names that disagree with you and people like my self will stop on our end. As far as SS, medicare and medicaid goes I bet your one of those individuals who suck off on that tit and take more out of it then put back in it. By the way sticks and stones BRAH!

[/QUOTE]

You don't think the wealthy deserve to enjoy their incomes. Really?

Cartels want to destroy this country more than al qaeda. Really? And, who is delusional?

The right is about racial politics. Really? And, who is delusional?

You condemn Trap for name calling, then you call him a racist. Really?

I question your statement that you are a moderate.

 

[OldTrapper]

Nah I want your tax cuts to pay for putting the military on the border. I don't think the 1% in this country deserve to enjoy their own money while we have narco cartels along our borders who want to destroy this country more then Al Qieda. Your delusional because you have made comments about our budget not including money for defense. Denial is a river in Egypt. by the way as much as you like to call people communist and a socialist who disagree with you. You guys on the right have been making it about race ever since Obama came into office. Quit calling people names that disagree with you and people like my self will stop on our end. As far as SS, medicare and medicaid goes I bet your one of those individuals who suck off on that tit and take more out of it then put back in it. By the way sticks and stones BRAH![/QUOTE]


Actually, you won't quit as I said before. It is the very division that you create that makes it possible for your kind to force their agenda on the poeple. We find that agenda present in the schools, the church's, as well as the government.

Next, it would not increase the budget to use the military to enforce immigration laws on the border thus your "tax cut" argument is meaningless.

Then too, Obama, and his supporters, were using race as a tool long before he became President. In fact, it was a factor in his political career in Chicago, and one of the reasons he attended Wrights church. Then there was his speech in which he declared that people would not vote for him simply because he "did not look like" former Presidents. It then became one of "historical importance" for many, and a means by which others could prove to the rest of the world that America had become a "post racial" country, and not about his qualification, or experince. And, the race issue is still used by many, and evidently you, when one opposes his socialist agenda which will destroy the US, and make us little better then any other country, and a member of the "global society" rather then a "light on the hill".

If you had read any of my other posts you would know that I have a deep disagreement with the disparity of wealth in this country, as well as in the world as a whole. It is deeply troubling that 2% of the people in the US control 28% of the wealth, and globally 2% of the people control 40% of the wealth. The prophets of old warned of what would happen when the Israelites decided to leave their relationship with God, and appoint a king to rule over them. This is as relevant today as it was then.

The fact that you are a Progressive/Socialist should not be a point of shame to you if you truely believe in that agenda. Perhaps there is something in your subconscious that tells you it is wrong?

 

[Rafael Norma]

Nuestro balance comercial ( además de su cuota debida a su consumo de drogas) con los Estados Unidos de Amnesia