Solution to the illegal alien invasion

[Rick]

You are not protecting this nation you are greatly damaging the liberties this nation was founded upon. No one is questioning that illegal immigration is a problem, its your solution that is on trial here.

If it's on trial, you've yet to present the indictment. WHAT liberties that the nation was founded on am I damaging?? Speak up - get specific.

 

[Apathy]

If it's on trial, you've yet to present the indictment. WHAT liberties that the nation was founded on am I damaging?? Speak up - get specific.

How about privacy?

 

[Rick]

How about privacy?

There is no such right, and if there were, a mere ID card which establishes you as a US citizen isn't a violation of privacy, any more than is a driver's license or a passport. Most countries around the world have national IDs.

 

[BigRob]

There is no such right, and if there were, a mere ID card which establishes you as a US citizen isn't a violation of privacy, any more than is a driver's license or a passport. Most countries around the world have national IDs.

There is such a right, according to the Supreme Court. You are right that you won't find "the right to privacy" listed in the Constitution, but the idea is very prevalent in many of the rights in the Bill of Rights. Additionally, since the Supreme Court has established it is a basic human right, it would be protected under the 9th amendment as well.

Also, if you are going to take a literal reading of the Constitution... where does the government get the authority to create such a database?

 

[GenSeneca]

I sense that it is mostly for economic opportunity.

So legal immigrants come here for "economic opportunity" but illegal ones come here to get a job... Half dozen of one, six of the other?

Since the reason that both legal and illegal come here is the same, then their reason for coming here is not the cause of illegal immigration.

what's the point of that question in this thread?

The obvious answer proves the fallacy of your premise.

If we legalized murder, would we have a problem with illegal murder? Yes or No.

We have legalized murder, abortion, and yes, we still have a problem with illegal murder. What does that have to do with immigration?

 

[Rick]

There is such a right, according to the Supreme Court. You are right that you won't find "the right to privacy" listed in the Constitution, but the idea is very prevalent in many of the rights in the Bill of Rights. Additionally, since the Supreme Court has established it is a basic human right, it would be protected under the 9th amendment as well.

Also, if you are going to take a literal reading of the Constitution... where does the government get the authority to create such a database?

The alleged "right" to privacy was "established" in the infamous Roe v. Wade case, one of the most poorly argued ever by the USSC - even pro-abortionists have criticized it. Privacy no more is inserted into the constitution by a horrendously erroneous USSC decision than slavery was with the Dred Scott decision, or segregation by Plessy v. Ferguson.

 

[Rick]

So legal immigrants come here for "economic opportunity" but illegal ones come here to get a job... Half dozen of one, six of the other?

Nope - the former get in line and follow the rules - the refutation of your statement is IN your statement - they are LEGAL.

Since the reason that both legal and illegal come here is the same, then their reason for coming here is not the cause of illegal immigration.

Yes it is - the illegal ones >>>ALSO<<< don't want to get in line, wait the five years, etc. Try again Sparky.

We have legalized murder, abortion, and yes, we still have a problem with illegal murder. What does that have to do with immigration?

Note to self: Analogies aren't Genseneca's strong suit - avoid in future.

 

[BigRob]

The alleged "right" to privacy was "established" in the infamous Roe v. Wade case, one of the most poorly argued ever by the USSC - even pro-abortionists have criticized it.

The "right to privacy" was not established with Roe V. Wade...it was merely expanded with Roe V. Wade. There are numerous cases prior to Roe V. Wade in which privacy was a central.

Privacy no more is inserted into the constitution by a horrendously erroneous USSC decision than slavery was with the Dred Scott decision, or segregation by Plessy v. Ferguson.

No, you will not explicitly find the "right to privacy" spelled out in the Constitution, but the idea is very prevalent.

Are you ever going to answer my question of where the Federal Government (within the Constitution) gets the authority to create a database such as the one you are proposing?

 

[Apathy]

There is no such right

You b*tch when people call you a statist? If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it must be a duck.

 

[Rick]

The "right to privacy" was not established with Roe V. Wade...it was merely expanded with Roe V. Wade. There are numerous cases prior to Roe V. Wade in which privacy was a central.

Yaaaaa yaaaaaa - I didn't want to go into hyper detail. There were precursor cases approaching the creation of such a right, but Roe was the first case "discovering" explicitly such a right, no ifs ands or buts.

No, you will not explicitly find the "right to privacy" spelled out in the Constitution, but the idea is very prevalent.

E. coli bacteria is also very "prevalent". The idea was invented from whole cloth in the Roe decision. One justice said it was discernable in the "penumbras" (partial shadows ) of the constitution - the illogic in the text of the majority's decision make one want to laugh.

 

[Rick]

You b*tch when people call you a statist? If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it must be a duck.

So a statist is someone who proposes new legislation? Errrrr........uhhhhhhhh........hokayyyyyyy.

 

[BigRob]

Yaaaaa yaaaaaa - I didn't want to go into hyper detail. There were precursor cases approaching the creation of such a right, but Roe was the first case "discovering" explicitly such a right, no ifs ands or buts.



E. coli bacteria is also very "prevalent". The idea was invented from whole cloth in the Roe decision. One justice said it was discernable in the "penumbras" (partial shadows ) of the constitution - the illogic in the text of the majority's decision make one want to laugh.

I take it this means you still cannot or will not answer my question about where the Federal Government gets the authority to create such a database...

 

[steveox]

This is the solution

Do it like Israel does it. And when mexicans touch that fence it alerts US Border Patrol and they have to go though that barbed wire by then they will be caught and sent back to mexico.

 

[GenSeneca]

Nope - the former get in line and follow the rules

If they both want to come here for the same reason but one does it legally and the other illegally, then clearly their reason for wanting to come to the US is not the actual cause of illegal immigration.

illegal ones don't want to get in line, wait the five years, etc.

An NID would would not change that, it would not make them want to stand in line and wait 5 yrs etc... All that money you point to that is lost as a result of illegal immigration would still be lost under an NID program because the "solution" doesn't actually solve any of the problems.

Note to self: Analogies aren't Genseneca's strong suit - avoid in future.

People who are losing arguments tend to resort to flippant remarks in hopes of derailing the conversation and letting it devolve into a mud slinging contest. If slinging mud is all you have left to offer, that's a real shame.

BigRob asked you where in the Constitution does the government get the power to create the NID program, you have avoided that question so far, please answer it.

Just out of curiousity... Has anyone here changed their mind about the NID as a result of this thread? Were you for it and now against it, against it and now for it, or perhaps you were on the fence about it but now leaning to one side or the other. If there are any such people, I would like to hear what you have to say.

 

[GenSeneca]

I take it this means you still cannot or will not answer my question about where the Federal Government gets the authority to create such a database...

Won't happen...

So Rob, what do you see as the cause of illegal immigration?

What do you see as the solution?