ISLAM is EVIL !

[DemocratLupis]

http://www.lewrockwell.com/wanniski/wanniski76.html

 

[Coyote]

Many Wines
Jalil ad-Din Rumi


God has given us a dark wine so potent that,
drinking it, we leave the two worlds.

God has put into the form of hashish a power
to deliver the taster from self-consciousness.

God has made sleep so
that it erases every thought.

God made Majnun love Layla so much that
just her dog would cause confusion in him.

There are thousands of wines
that can take over our minds.

Don't think all ecstacies
are the same!

Jesus was lost in his love for God.
His donkey was drunk with barley.

Drink from the presence of saints,
not from those other jars.

Every object, every being,
is a jar full of delight.

Be a conoisseur,
and taste with caution.

Any wine will get you high.
Judge like a king, and choose the purest,

the ones unadulterated with fear,
or some urgency about "what's needed."

Drink the wine that moves you
as a camel moves when it's been untied,

and is just ambling about.

 

[SW85]

You treat "evil" as an absolute. Evil is defined by society and our two societies - Western and Islamic - define it very, very differently. By our standards they may be considered evil (although I don't consider most Muslims to be evil, but that's my personal opinion). By their standards they consider us to be evil. There is no way for either of us to objectively refer to the other as evil because there is no absolute definition of the term.

Thanks for stating the obvious.

He thinks Islam is evil -- it follows that he's using his definition of evil. Why should he judge other people by the standards they set for themselves, rather than his own?

This is the equivalent of saying "Well, that's your opinion," to which the logical response is "duh."

Regardless, their culture is quite separate from ours, with a whole different values set. Who are we to judge them?

Uh, free people with values of our own. Who are you to say we can't judge people?

I'm not going to dig through the remaining 27 pages of this thread, because I have a feeling I've addressed all the salient points that will be made with the above two quotes.

 

[PoliticalMessager]

Islam is Evil To Thoses Who Don't Understand Islam.

Islam is evil to people who don't understand the religion,
and is to full of self greed to ask. The concept of Jehad
seem to always be tied in with Terrorism, but Jehad is
meant for upholding the uprightness of the word of
" Allah " GOD. for the victory of suppressed for safeguarding
the places of worship, and for defence againist the aggression
and atrocities of Tyrants.

I am not trying to brain damage anyone no more then
what's have already been done, but when we jump to
create our own opinion.

As a messager its not my intentions to convert anyone to
Islam, but its my mission to make corrections in the time
of confusion, and arabic words seems confusion to those
who don't understand them or isn't aware to the teaching
of Islam.

Therforth; I am going to share a url with the ones who have
an opened mind. http://darululoom-deoband.com/english/
teachings/index3.htm

The Objectives/Rules and Conditions, and the Rules & the
Limitations of Jehad is listed on that url.

Being born here in a Country where the game is....Watch
Out Muslims are Killers, and yet our so-called own Gov't
is screwing us ALL good. Here in America we do have the
freedom to talk, and I believe that IF we talk right people
will listen.

 

[jb_1430]

Darul Uloom school produced Mullah Omar. Many of us understand Islam just fine. Just as the millions of Arabs understand the meaning of Arabic words just fine.

 

[DemocratLupis]

no people dont understand islam most Americans think middle eastern islam is evil and corrupt and needs reform. Arabs dont seem to understand the meaning of peace

 

[DemocratLupis]

http://www.truthbeknown.com/islamquotes.htm

many Americans are getting tired of middle eastern muslims
and want a war against them for real's

b.s. this link is proof and these qoutes come exactly part of the quran
the second half of it

Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home: an evil fate.

Q 9:73

 

[jb_1430]

Islam is evil to people who don't understand the religion,
and is to full of self greed to ask. The concept of Jehad
seem to always be tied in with Terrorism, but Jehad is
meant for upholding the uprightness of the word of
" Allah " GOD. for the victory of suppressed for safeguarding
the places of worship, and for defence againist the aggression
and atrocities of Tyrants....

Therforth; I am going to share a url with the ones who have
an opened mind. http://darululoom-deoband.com/english/
teachings/index3.htm

Just the usual Islam is peace BS. Relying on verses from the Meccan period and avoiding Medinan verses. Qutb in miliestones discusses the progression of jihad.

Thus for thirteen years after the beginning of his Messengership, he called people to God through preaching, without fighting or Jizyah, and was commanded to restrain himself and to practice patience and forbearance. Then he was commanded to migrate, and later permission was given to fight. Then he was commanded to fight those who fought him, and to restrain himself from those who did not make war with him. Later he was commanded to fight the polytheists until God's religion was fully established. ...
It was also explained that war should be declared against those from among the 'People of the Book' [16 Christians and Jews] who declare open enmity, until they agree to pay Jizyah or accept Islam. Concerning the polytheists and the hypocrites, it was commanded in this chapter that Jihaad be declared against them and that they be treated harshly. ...
it was commanded that the treaties with the polytheists be brought to an end at the period of their expiration. In this respect, the people with whom there were treaties were divided into three categories: The first, those who broke the treaty and did not fulfill its terms. He was ordered to fight against them; he fought with them and was victorious. The second were those with whom the treaty was made for a stated term; they had not broken this treaty nor helped anyone against the Prophet - peace be on him - Concerning them, God ordered that these treaties be completed to their full term. The third kind were those with whom there was neither a treaty nor were they fighting against the Prophet-peace be on him-, or those with whom no term of expiration was stated. Concerning these, it was commanded that they be given four months' notice of expiration, at the end of which they should be considered open enemies and fought with.
http://www.youngmuslims.ca/online_library/books/milestones/hold/chapter_4.asp

 

[PoliticalMessager]

Ignorant As Always I See.

You know after reading months and months of you
trying impress people. I still find you one strange
bozo. Everything you type is usually quotes from a
newspaper article you read, or from ABC Nightly news.

Number 1: You never would know or learn what I know,
due to the fact that you are a inexperienced blabber
mouth jb_1430, and Secondly; hope you live to be my age
with all that mouth you got.

This is the internet meaning whatever you post isn't good
enough for me, due to the fact that I think your posts is
garbage, and have no value to the contents.

Darul Uloom school produced Mullah Omar. Many of us understand Islam just fine. Just as the millions of Arabs understand the meaning of Arabic words just fine.

Now I suppose you attened Uloom huh? You know Mullah Omar?
Many of us? Who is many of us, and are you the spokesperson
for the us who understand Islam just fine? You are full of s**t
you ask me. Then you had the balls to say just like millions of
Muslims understand arabic. Of course they should understand
their own language, but the problem is understanding people
like you, and I am going to speak for the million...hell NO they
would think you're on camel acid.

Again, Personal experience pays off not dreaming.

 

[jb_1430]

You know after reading months and months of you
trying impress people. I still find you one strange
bozo. Everything you type is usually quotes from a
newspaper article you read, or from ABC Nightly news.

"Milestones" by Sayyid Qutb. Its a book neither a newspaper article or ABC nightly news. And usually, as in this case, I am quoting Muslims.

Number 1: You never would know or learn what I know,
due to the fact that you are a inexperienced blabber
mouth jb_1430, and Secondly; hope you live to be my age
with all that mouth you got.

Seems you know what a typical Islamic madrassa education would teach you to know.

Then you had the balls to say just like millions of
Muslims understand arabic. Of course they should understand
their own language,

Actually, most Muslims dont understand Arabic. I said the ARABS understand ARABIC just fine. Such as Sayyid Qutb. Preposterous to blame his understanding of Islamic doctrine on some kind of arabic translation problem since he speaks Arabic.
Get an arguement if you can.

 

[Reliant]

http://www.answering-islam.org/Walid/gog.htm

http://www.banislam.net/

http://www.lewrockwell.com/wanniski/wanniski76.html

http://www.islamisevilandinhuman.com/8/


Satan=Allah

The Devil=Tele-us

And Christianity is ssooooo much better.... right?


"Religious zealotry over the centuries has been directly responsible for countless deaths, imprisonments, needless suffering, torturings, and the oppression of people on grounds of sex, race, colour, sexuality or belief.

A few obvious examples :

The Crusades.
The Inquisition.
Witch trials in Europe and America.
The Divine right of Kings (valid until killed by another Divinely-appointed King).
Missionaries destroying/converting smaller, "heathen" religions and cultures.
The demonization of other religions, e.g. Christianity demonizing Pagans ("They're devil-worshippers!"), the Romans demonizing Christians ("They're atheists and cannibals!").
Persecution of Heretics - e.g. Galileo for daring to suggest that the Earth orbits the Sun.
Children dying because their parents refused them medical treatment on religious grounds; relying instead on faith-healers and prayer.
Slavery, supposedly supported by scripture ("Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, just as you would obey Christ.", St.Paul, Ephesians 6:5)
Holy wars - followers of different faiths (or even the same faith) killing each other in the name of their (benevolent, loving and merciful) gods.
The destruction of great works of art considered to be pornographic/blasphemous, and the persecution of the artists.
Censorship (often destructive) of speech, art, books, music, films, poetry, songs and, if possible, thought.
Persecution/punishment of blasphemers (Salman Rushdie still has a death sentence on him), and blasphemy laws in general.
The requirement of theism in order to stand for public office or to testify in court.
Serial killers believing they are doing the work of Satan (or sometimes Jesus).
Often-fatal exorcisms by priests believing they are destroying the work of Satan.
People suffering dreadful injury or death in the belief that their faith has made them invulnerable (e.g. people climbing into lion enclosures at zoos, with a Bible as protection).
Whole societies divided by minor differences in belief or doctrine, often resulting in violence.
Mass suicides of cult-members following a charismatic leader who believes the world is about to End (most recently, the Heaven's Gate and Solar Temple cults.
The attempted genocide of followers of a particular faith (e.g. the Jewish Holocaust, "ethnic cleansing" in former Yugoslavia).
Blood sacrifices to appease the Gods, or to ensure a good harvest. (The Aztecs made daily human sacrifices to ensure that the Sun would rise. Or did they? )
The practice of "female circumcision" (more accurately termed genital mutilation).
The discouragement of rational, critical thought (resulting in young-earth creationists, for example).
Uncontrolled population growth caused (or at least helped) by churches prohibiting birth-control and abortion. (You can also add : unwanted pregnancies, ill-fated forced marriages, and pregnant teenagers condemned to a life in mental institutions to avoid embarrassing their families.)
The spread of sexually transmitted diseases (e.g. AIDS) due to churches prohibiting the use of condoms.
Believers whipping, impaling, poisoning or crucifying themselves during religious festivals as a demonstration of their faith and piety.
Suicide bombers taught to believe that martyrs go straight to Paradise.
The indoctrination of children into the religion of their parents, giving them an arbitrary, life-long belief that is almost entirely dependent on their place of birth.
Women treated as second-class citizens or even slaves (article : Islam's Shame).
Pentecostal snake-handlers (Augusta Chronicle news article)
Persecution of homosexuals (Genocide of gay and lesbian youth)
Abuse of power, authority and trust by religious leaders (for financial gain or sexual abuse of followers and even children).
Minor religions ("cults") stockpiling weapons to defend themselves from the Armies Of Satan (i.e. the police and the government).

"Ah, but that was all years ago." you might say. Yes, it was. Unfortunately, a lot of these things still go on today. Look through the Freethought Today Newsletter for "In the News", "Religious Violence", and "You won't believe you're reading this" articles. You might be surprised at how many children are killed each year by well-meaning parents trying to exorcise demons, or people killed/imprisoned by fundamentalists for trivial infringements of "holy laws". People still persecute and kill each other safe in the knowledge that God is on their side, and that they are in the right, fighting for Holy Truth and Divine Justice.

It should be noted that many of these atrocities are caused as a direct result of religious belief - if the person did not follow a particular religion, or did not believe quite so strongly, then they simply would not have acted as they did. Not only is religion used to reinforce/justify a person's prejudices, it may also cause someone to commit an act of violence that they would otherwise have considered abhorrent (i.e. the mother who spent several hours beating her young daughter in order to force out the devil that was making the child playfully turn cartwheels in the house - resulting in the death of the child).

The benefits of religion (many of which may be achieved without religious belief) can include spiritual well-being, charitable works, a sense of meaning and purpose, the bringing together of communities, comfort in times of distress and the (unconfirmed) promise of eternal life after death".

How does this weigh against the other side of the scales?

 

[9sublime]

Great post.

 

[jb_1430]

Islam is evil to people who don't understand the religion,
and is to full of self greed to ask. ...
Therforth; I am going to share a url with the ones who have
an opened mind. http://darululoom-deoband.com/english/
teachings/index3.htm

We understand.

Almost half of Britain’s mosques are under the control of a hardline Islamic sect whose leading preacher loathes Western values and has called on Muslims to “shed blood” for Allah, an investigation by The Times has found.

Riyadh ul Haq, who supports armed jihad and preaches contempt for Jews, Christians and Hindus, is in line to become the spiritual leader of the Deobandi sect in Britain. The ultra-conservative movement, which gave birth to the Taleban in Afghanistan, now runs more than 600 of Britain’s 1,350 mosques, according to a police report seen by The Times.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article2402973.ece

His target is the kuffar, the nonMuslim, whether Jewish, Christian, Hindu or atheist, and the message is simple: their designs are evil, their ways corrupting. Stay away from them.

Mr ul Haq, 36, who is charismatic, intelligent and British, seems to share Osama bin Laden’s stated conviction that America and its allies are seeking to destroy Islam. Both men regard this as the fulfilment of a prophecy made by the Prophet Muhammad, and both find justification in the Koran for the use of militant jihad to attack and kill those nonbelievers who have incurred Allah’s displeasure.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article2402998.ece

 

[vyo476]

Thanks for stating the obvious.

He thinks Islam is evil -- it follows that he's using his definition of evil. Why should he judge other people by the standards they set for themselves, rather than his own?

This is the equivalent of saying "Well, that's your opinion," to which the logical response is "duh."

You're failing to grasp the gravity of difference that a unique, separate culture creates. Everything from aesthetics to ethics is different - and just why is it okay for us to impose our own value judgments on them? Because we're "free"? Don't forget, "freedom" is just another part of our culture. We think it's great. Muslims think sitting on prayer rugs facing Mecca every morning is great.

The point is, there can be no valid argument for their being "evil" unless one can establish why one is better than they are. And since that isn't possible...

Uh, free people with values of our own. Who are you to say we can't judge people?

Someone who has read up on history and has determined for himself that when we go around "judging" minorities, it tends to go badly - just ask the American Indians or African Americans. I'm not saying you can't - have all the opinions you want. The regressive ones aren't going to help matters though.

Understandings between unique cultures cannot be met so long as both sides persist in spewing forth hatred and dislike. Look at our relationship with Japan - in the 1930s and 1940s, America and Japan didn't exactly get along. Part of this had to do with a lack of cultural understanding. Once WWII was over we started getting to know each other a little better, and today our two countries, despite our differences, get along pretty good.

Now, I'm not saying we all have to drop everything and go hug a Muslim. Just try to be more open-minded about Islam - and don't condemn anyone who isn't threatening us. That's where I've always drawn the line, personally. While we have to have respect for their unique culture, that respect ends where they begin attacking us. The ones who attack, we deal with. The rest, we leave alone. Plain and simple.

 

[vyo476]

Mark, I love how in one breath, you condemn their values, and in the next condemn them for condemning our values.