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What is the Trinity?
- Thread starter Aus22
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three facets of the one God
or
onions, celery and bell pepper (aka mirapoix)
now I'm curious, who thinks its three gods ? never heard that
or
onions, celery and bell pepper (aka mirapoix)
now I'm curious, who thinks its three gods ? never heard that
Pandora
Well-Known Member
Catholic and Christian churches teach that the trinity (a word not even in scripture anyplace) is One GOD three parts. Like an egg is an egg but there is the egg shell, egg whites and egg yolk, all three are different yet all are the egg. Or H20 can be liquid mist or ice form yet it’s all H20.
I believe totally that h20 has various forms and so does an egg but I do not agree that Jesus is God, the Father is God and the Holy Spirit is God one but separate.
I am perfectly fine with the idea that God has a spirit and we can feel its presents but I disagree with the concept that Jesus is God.
I have been shown arguments on a few vs. that people felt lead to the idea that Jesus is God but the number of scriptures people have to overlook stating clearly that Jesus is not God but in fact has the same God as we do has been far more convincing to me.
interesting.
if He were not some sort of aspect of God who chose to take human form and (for all he knew) offer his divinity and immortality to pay for the sin of the world but just a nice guy (I don't quite know how you see Him so forgive the simplification) then how is His sacrifice significant ?
Pandora
Well-Known Member
I never said he was just a nice guy. I believe everything the scriptures say about him
He is the only begotten (unique) son of God
He is the first born of all creation
He is the Messiah
All things were made through him
If God can redeem people and cover sins through a scapegoat as was done pre the birth of Jesus then surely he could forgive sins through the acts of his son’s death and resurrection?
Pondoro. your concept seems to be that Jesus Christ was not God but had a certain relationship with God. A son, a Messiah who God gave power to.
It is true that the Trinity is not explain very well in the Bible. For Catholics this does not matter because we believe the doctrine was proclaimed by his church in the fourth century at the Council of Nicea. Historically such a council took place and the Nicene Creed was proclaimed. However even here there was a division between the Eastern and Western Churches. The Western church believe God the Son always existed and the Holy Spirit comes from both the Father and the Son . The eastern Orthodox church believes That The Son was created at the incarnation so although a God a lesser God than the Father and Holy Spirit. This is not an important distinction but does show how complex is the doctrine. Protestant who do not believe Christ establish a Church to speak on his behalf require verses from the Bible. There are verses that suggest the Father and Son are one eg Mathew 3:16. Where the Spirit of God appears on Jesus Baptism,10:20. For it is not you who e speaking but the spirit in your Father who speaks through you John 3:35, The Father loves the Son and has given all things into his hands. None of these define the Trinity but do not contradict the Church teaching.
Pandora
Well-Known Member
My concept of Jesus is just what I find written. Nothing less but also nothing more. If you believe that Jesus always was how do you reconcile with the vs. in Colossians 1:15-20 where it says he is the first born of all creation.
I have major problems with the Council of Nicea and Constantine so I can’t just take what they said as facts. But I respect that you can and do.
The Bible makes it abundantly clear that God exists as God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. However, these three persons are not three separate gods, but One God. This Trinitarian concept of God might seem to be contradictory from a human standpoint, but is perfectly logical from God's extradimensional existence. Anti-Trinitarian heresies either elevate humans to the level of God or demote one or more persons of the Godhead to non-God status. Don't fall into one of those traps!
"Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit"
Pandora
Well-Known Member
I fully believe in the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit I just do not think they are all the same God. What makes you believe in the trinity? What vs. from scripture do you find that compels you to believe that Jesus IS GOD?
The quote In Colossians 1:15=20 is subject to many interpretations.It does say that Christ was the firstborn of every creature. This would suggest He was created before all man thus supporting the Western Catholic position. Later quotes like being the head of the Church might apply to his human nature. As there was no Church until he founded it in the first century AD.
I think because of these apparent contradictions you do need a church to in interpreted them
OK I'm missing something here, who was this scapegoat pre-Jesus ? I was under the impression that it was live your life adhering to the Law you were in and this held true until the Messiah appeared to make the new covenant. not a chapter and vers guy so I cant tell you why exactly (that eye of the needle comes to mind but I know there is much more to it.
Only begotten son, right, first and only time he took human form
Firstborn of all creation, OK, God made Adam in his own image so some sort of image was needed to model
the Messiah, yes, I believe that to be
all things were made thru him, have to take a harder look at that one
Pandora
Well-Known Member
scape·goat/ˈskāpˌgōt/
Noun:
(in the Bible) A goat sent into the wilderness after the Jewish chief priest had symbolically laid the sins of the people upon it (Lev. 16).
Pandora
Well-Known Member
I have a lot of respect for what you think. I disagree with it whole heartedly but I respect that you are honest and when you cannot find things in the bible to support what you believe you admit you refer to the Church. And that is the correct thing for a Catholic to do. You are a good Catholic
What I do not understand is when you’re mainstream Christian who rejects the Catholic Church and her teachings believe things that are not really taught in scripture but are instead taught from the church/tradition like The Trinity.
hmmmm interesting. and people think just accepting Christ as your Lord and Savior is an easy way out.
thanks for the info
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Pandora
Well-Known Member
I guess some people think that but remember what Jesus said. Some will cry Lord Lord and he will say... I never knew you.
Anyways back to my point. If God could make a goat the way to cover the Israelites sins for the year then I am sure he can make it where His sons sacrifice covers all sins for all time.
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