USA Is The Sponsor Of Dictatorships !

[rationalist]

My religion is bigger than yours

 

[OldTrapper]

Oh my friend ! you have forgotten many important things :

1) Abraham had two wives : Sarah whose son was Isaac , and Hajar whose son was (Ismael) . Ismael is the father of Arabs where Isaac is the father of Jews . So , from history's point of view , Abraham is the father of both Arabs and Jews .

Hagar, not Hajar, was the maidservant of Sarai, not a wife of Abraham. Ishmael is the illegitimate son of Abraham just as Islam is the illegitimate religion authored by a man, not by God.

2) Abraham was NOT a Jew . And this is the most important of all . Abraham had the same instructions as Mohammad and he had never been a Jew . This is written in Quran .

Christ called Abraham the father of the Jews. Isaac's name was changed to Israel by God.

3) Judism started by Moses in Egypt where Palestine's citizens were Arabs .

Wrong again. Moses gave the "Law" to the Israelites at Mt. Sinai during the exodus out of Egypt.

4) Finally, Allah says in Quran : that he made it forbidden for jews to enter Palestine ( called the holy land) because of their sins against Moses . Jews didn't believe Moses and moreover they worship to the bull ( made of gold) and they never believed a prophet . So Allah punished them by preventing them from entering Palestine and by spreading them in all the world because of their sins . So , Jews never had a state in history , neither in Palestine nor in anywhere . That is what we think and believe as muslims .

The Jews did believe the prophets as can be seen by the Prophetical Books of the OT. It is written in the Books of Prophecy that the Jews would deny Christ, and thus they would be dispersed about the world. However, as has always been, there remained a remnant in the land to whom God says the original land given to the Jew would be returned to them. God has never said any other body other then that of the Jew would be anything but the "true vine". Even Christians are not the "true vine", rather they are "grafted" to the "true vine".

God never spoke to Mohammed.

You have to know something which is an important rule : Muslims believe in all prophets where jews had never believed in one . Jews always tried to kill their prophets and fighted them . Quran says : The closest people to Abraham are the people who believed him . So , We are closer to Abraham and all the prophets , Solmon and David and all of them. Notice that the Arabs lived in Palestine before Solmon and David because Abraham was before them .

Jews killed the false prophets for sure. True prophets were revered. During the time of Christ, and before, false prophets did arise, and kill off the true prophets. Christ addressed this when condemning the Pharisees in Matt. 23:13-39.

Nowadays, Jews has been looking for Jewish ruins and evidences to prove their ownership of the land especially in Jerusalem but all the have found are Islamic ruins which strongly proves that Israel never had a kingdom or even a state . All of it was that Solmon ruled for only 42 years : 970 BC to 928 BC . Where the Arabs where in the land before and after him .

Looks like they have found it which will again prove the lie of Islam.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/02/100222094757.htm

 

[rationalist]

This is hilarious

You are quoting from a work of fiction as though it were gospel.

That really does explain what you post.

If you don't wise up old crapper you will be kicked out of the troofers

 

[OldTrapper]

This is hilarious

You are quoting from a work of fiction as though it were gospel.

That really does explain what you post.

If you don't wise up old crapper you will be kicked out of the troofers

Prove it fool. You haven't proven anything else, so why not try your hand at this one without using your BS, or fiction?

 

[bododie]

Dawkins.... I mean rationalist, is a total evoluntionist. His evolutionist stance however, does not allow for the weak to be eradicated by the strong. He acts like he has a conscience, which I would be willing to bet is not necessary or useful to evolution.

Evolution can be very unkind. Kinda looks like mankind is in charge of the course of "evolution" for the future world, not the little "swamp cells" no mo. You sure you want evolution bud, or do you want to redefine it? You can have the first, not the second.

 

[Pandora]

Christ called Abraham the father of the Jews. Isaac's name was changed to Israel by God.

Great post. I am glad that you corrected him on the wife/hand maiden thing!

Just one thing I thought was wrong...

Isaac's son Jacob was the one who was re named Israel.

 

[Pandora]

I like this way of thinking. Let us take it by historical evidences . Jews and all Jews know that Palestine was an Arab land since ever . The first time Jews had entered Palestine was when they escaped from Egypt. This is written in the Jewish bible . And when they came to Palestine they found The Canaanites who are Arabs !! It is simple to know that Arabs were there thousands of yrs even before Jews thought to enter it .

However, all the Jews who entered there were so little and they didn't stay there too much . You will be excited if you know that they only stayed for
40 yrs. and during those yrs they were little and didn't rule the land . All this is written in their bible and in Quran as well .

Who do you think Abraham was told to sacrifice? Do you think it was not Issac?

 

[OldTrapper]

Great post. I am glad that you corrected him on the wife/hand maiden thing!

Just one thing I thought was wrong...

Isaac's son Jacob was the one who was re named Israel.

My bad. I got a generation ahead of myself.

 

[rationalist]

Bododie, you need to understand evolution before you attempt descrediting it or me for embracing it.

Humans have developed complex societies where physical evolution has come to bring very little, if any advantage.

The way that societies function has taken over and this revolves around what Richard Dawkins calls memes (as opposed to genes).

So for humans the idea that the weak should perish has become repugnant because it is counter evolutionary in a conmplex society that often depends on what would previously been known as weak people.


As for Old Crapper asking me to prove that the bible is a work of fiction I don't really know where to start.

How about a few guys with trumpets blowing them so loudly that city walls fell down?

How about magicians in Paharoah's court turning rods into snakes?

How about a talking snake?

If that doesn't do it for you ...well what can I say?

 

[OldTrapper]

As for Old Crapper asking me to prove that the bible is a work of fiction I don't really know where to start.

How about a few guys with trumpets blowing them so loudly that city walls fell down?

How about magicians in Paharoah's court turning rods into snakes?

How about a talking snake?

If that doesn't do it for you ...well what can I say?

Well, you might try reading the Bible before commenting on it. If you had you would have known that it was not just the trumpets. Then too, a little research would have shown to you that the event is historically correct.

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-abr/abr-a011.html

As to the magicians, are you saying that David Copperfield did not make a jumbo jet disappear?

To the "talking snake", are you aware of what symbolism is all about?

You're going to have to do better.

 

[bododie]

Rationalist. How 'bout trying to look at the bigger picture. The Bible is a historic book, just like other books that mankind has learned about life prior to succeeding generations, etc. All you do is quote the Old Testament. Of course, if you have an argument about the message that Jesus brought forth, mainly human kindness, please do say so.

Parables are just that. Parables. The message is simply be good to each other, REGARDLESS of whether one shares the same faith, or belief systems. The average "Christian" simply follows that message. The average decent human being without faith follows that message. Ugly old women in Lebanon dance in the streets with glee over the bombing of the trade center. Is that what Muhammad wanted? I can't think of ONE American/Christian who expresses glee over the loss of innocent lives. Do innocents die? Yeah. Is it a Muslim/Middle Eastern way of thinking that makes them happy to see people die? Think that's gonna change soon? Think it's gonna help mankind much?

If you want to believe that "Americans" are still living in the stone age, then maybe you should try to understand that maybe educated people can filter out the important stuff and not worry about the rest. We don't tend goats like they did in Biblical times either.....

Now if only little village people could come out of the third century, it would be nice, much less expecting them to understand the modern world.

Again, you, and no other human being gets to redefine the process of evolution. It is now a matter of the weak POPULUS not bringing down the rest of the world.

You assume that those who try to combine science and faith THINK the way you've decided they do, because you read a few parables in a book.

Wanna tell me how this knowledge is going to change cultures that don't want to progress? Gonna offer 'em a cookie? How 'bout giving em a toilet, but be sure to explain that one sits on it and doesn't stand...

society that often depends on what would previously been known as weak people.

Lol. Do explain. Or wish.....

 

[bododie]

How about magicians in Paharoah's court turning rods into snakes?

How about a talking snake?

If that doesn't do it for you ...well what can I say

Lol. I don't know, ask a Jewish scholar. This is from the Old Testament. Jesus is in the next chapter..... Lol.

 

[Free Palestine]

Hagar, not Hajar, was the maidservant of Sarai, not a wife of Abraham. Ishmael is the illegitimate son of Abraham just as Islam is the illegitimate religion authored by a man, not by God.

Are you serious ? . You are really funny and know nothing .
First, your mind is poisined by the Jewish lies about Abraham , how can you think that a prophet of the God may have an illegitimate son ? This means that you don't believe in Abraham nor anyone .

Second, you don't have any evidence to prove that Islam is an illegal religion . You are talking from your hostility's point of view .

Islam is a legal religion. All what Islam said was known by Jews and Christians but they didn't follow Islam and Mohammad although it was written in their books that Mohammad will come and will be the last prophet.

Christ called Abraham the father of the Jews. Isaac's name was changed to Israel by God.

Christ didn't call Abraham the father of Jews. Muslims also are the sons of Abraham and you know it. ABRAHAM WAS NOT AND HAS NEVER BEEN A JEW. This is what all muslims believe in and it is written in Quran . We believe Quran , and to be fair : Why do you believe what is written in the bible but reject to believe in what is written in Quran ? .

You claim that Islam is an illegal religion. Please prove that ? and if you want me to prove that it is legal , I will write a special post about islam soon .

Wrong again. Moses gave the "Law" to the Israelites at Mt. Sinai during the exodus out of Egypt.

Juidsm started by Moses . And the bible of Jews came with Moses. This is the truth.

The Jews did believe the prophets as can be seen by the Prophetical Books of the OT. It is written in the Books of Prophecy that the Jews would deny Christ, and thus they would be dispersed about the world. However, as has always been, there remained a remnant in the land to whom God says the original land given to the Jew would be returned to them. God has never said any other body other then that of the Jew would be anything but the "true vine". Even Christians are not the "true vine", rather they are "grafted" to the "true vine".

God never spoke to Mohammed.

Are you a Jew ?

how did you know that god never spoke to Mohammad ? Did the bible tell you about that ? but the bible was before Mohammad so how did the bible know about him ?!!!!!
I have all the evidences about the legality of Islam which is however not obtained from you nor anybody else . You don't look fairly to Islam . but I will postpone this discussion to my next post .

Jews killed the false prophets for sure. True prophets were revered. During the time of Christ, and before, false prophets did arise, and kill off the true prophets. Christ addressed this when condemning the Pharisees in Matt. 23:13-39.

But why did Jews try to kill the Christ ?
Wasn't the Christ a true prophet ?
And how do the Jews judge on prophets ? Do Jews have the reserved right to judge over all the prophets ? And if it is so , who gave them that right ?

Looks like they have found it which will again prove the lie of Islam.

Really ? I am gonna give you the details on my next post . God willing .

 

[Free Palestine]

Who do you think Abraham was told to sacrifice? Do you think it was not Issac?

Yes he was Ismael . Allah (The God) asked Abraham to sacrifice by Ismael in order to check the patience of Abraham and his loyalty to God . Prophets are all loyal to god's orders whatever it will be , and so Abraham accepted it and when he wanted to kill Ismael , he was crying and in that moment , Gabriel came and told him that it was just a test . Gabriel gave Abraham a goat and asked him to slaught it instead of Ismael and he did. And that date is an eid (feast) for muslims every year. We celeberate and slaught goats or something like cows or etc .

This is the story as we know it in Quran. The choice of Ismael was not to prove that Isaac was perhaps better ! . Jews claims this but it is not true. I think that when Allah want to test a prophet and ask him to kill one of his sons , he will ask him to kill the one who loves most in order to check him well . Don't you think so ?

 

[Pandora]

Yes he was Ismael . Allah (The God) asked Abraham to sacrifice by Ismael in order to check the patience of Abraham and his loyalty to God . Prophets are all loyal to god's orders whatever it will be , and so Abraham accepted it and when he wanted to kill Ismael , he was crying and in that moment , Gabriel came and told him that it was just a test . Gabriel gave Abraham a goat and asked him to slaught it instead of Ismael and he did. And that date is an eid (feast) for muslims every year. We celeberate and slaught goats or something like cows or etc .

This is the story as we know it in Quran. The choice of Ismael was not to prove that Isaac was perhaps better ! . Jews claims this but it is not true. I think that when Allah want to test a prophet and ask him to kill one of his sons , he will ask him to kill the one who loves most in order to check him well . Don't you think so ?

Thanks for replying,

now can you please show me the surah in the Quran where it says that Allah (The God) asked Abraham to sacrifice Ismael. Please give me surah where they name Ishmael by his name.