Glenn beck is right about gay marriage

[Pandora]

you understand that if a brick is thrown threw a gays window...it does not make it a hate crime right? Its takes alot more then that, and are pretty hard to prove in court without something clear showing the motive...a brick in a window has no motive ...its still a crime but no motive is known

Yes I do understand that FULLY
But it does not change the rules here. It is considered a hate crime till they find out it's not.

That is a special right that homosexuals get that non homosexuals do not get at least in my area.

If you want the truth I am ok with it. Better safe than sorry. My point is not to say its wrong to help someone who might be targeted for a hate crime, my point is to say they do have a special right that not just everyone has.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

Yes I do understand that FULLY
But it does not change the rules here. It is considered a hate crime till they find out it's not.

That is a special right that homosexuals get that non homosexuals do not get at least in my area.

If you want the truth I am ok with it. Better safe than sorry. My point is not to say its wrong to help someone who might be targeted for a hate crime, my point is to say they do have a special right that not just everyone has.

that still not a right..also given 100 bricks into a white christian home, or 100 in a gay persons...yea alot higher amount will be hate related for the gay..How the police decide to deal with those cases are not a right...And if it was, its a right that would not even be special to gays..

and Just so you know I wrote a long paper against hate crimes laws...

 

[GenSeneca]

and Just so you know I wrote a long paper against hate crimes laws...

Against hate crime laws? ...I find that surprising.

 

[Pandora]

that still not a right..also given 100 bricks into a white christian home, or 100 in a gay persons...yea alot higher amount will be hate related for the gay..How the police decide to deal with those cases are not a right...And if it was, its a right that would not even be special to gays..

and Just so you know I wrote a long paper against hate crimes laws...

Not special to homosexuals? what do you mean? if someone does a hate crime against a homosexual that person is dealt with more swift, gets longer prison time worse fines and if the exact same crime is done to a non homosexual much less if anything at all happens.

equal protection under the law.

Glad you are against hate crimes, I am too.... wish my state was!

 

[pocketfullofshells]

Against hate crime laws? ...I find that surprising.

why do you say that?

 

[Pandora]

why do you say that?

I found it surprising too

it doesn't seem like something you would against. But there have been a couple of things you were not lock step with liberals in the past so I guess it's not super surprising, but it is surprising

 

[pocketfullofshells]

Not special to homosexuals? what do you mean? if someone does a hate crime against a homosexual that person is dealt with more swift, gets longer prison time worse fines and if the exact same crime is done to a non homosexual much less if anything at all happens.

equal protection under the law.

Glad you are against hate crimes, I am too.... wish my state was!

you said gays want special status...but your example does not make them realy special..when it applies to ( insert all the groups you think are not covered..blacks, hispanics, Jews, Muslims, native americans, people with disabilities, Jahova wittnesses, Mormons....since you seem to think they all get special protection over some white christian ...Not realy all that special sounding is it?)

And yea, its realy hard being a white male in America...I can only guess how hard it must be if I was a christian..like 90% of the people I know..

 

[Pandora]

you said gays want special status...but your example does not make them realy special..when it applies to ( insert all the groups you think are not covered..blacks, hispanics, Jews, Muslims, native americans, people with disabilities, Jahova wittnesses, Mormons....since you seem to think they all get special protection over some white christian ...Not realy all that special sounding is it?)

And yea, its realy hard being a white male in America...I can only guess how hard it must be if I was a christian..like 90% of the people I know..

Its a right straight people do not have, that is what I was talking about.
I disagree with you that native Americans, JWs or Mormons are in this list

Though Native American is considered a minority it doesnt make the hate crime list in my area, though it might in others.

oh by the way they have anther special right at least in my area that straight people do not have. Men and women must marry to get on each others health insurance here. But homosexual people can just live together. There are no limits as to how long they have to live together but even married people have to be married for at least 6 months before you can add them to your insurance.

Not every straight person wants the commitment of marriage and I personally do not want the government validating my relationships but I am stuck getting married like it or not if i want to put someone on my insurance. I do not have the special rights that homosexuals have

 

[pocketfullofshells]

I tried to find the paper, not on my HD...I think I have a paper copy still someplace..I had it posted to 2 websites, one I ran...but both sites are down now...( the one I had was on Geocities and they took down all sites)

At its most Basic...I don't agree with crimes that have to get into intent and thought...Think McCarthyism...the Crime of what you think or believe...I belive that if someone commits a crime with a clear larger intent to target a whole group or race...then that should and can be used as a factor in sentincing...just like any number of factors that can increase or decrease a penalty..but should not be part of a overall greater crime, with a higher possible penalty...if the penalty for the crime is not enough...then maybe we just need to toughen that law...not make a special new case .

If someone throws a brick threw a window...becuse they are a dumb kid and think its funny..there is plenty on the books for destruction of property

if it was to targeted ( insert group here) then you can add other charges on the books, such as harassment, even terrorism, and makeing threats against someone...

 

[pocketfullofshells]

Its a right straight people do not have, that is what I was talking about.
I disagree with you that native Americans, JWs or Mormons are in this list

Though Native American is considered a minority it doesnt make the hate crime list in my area, though it might in others.

Again strait people have the right to file a complaint, press charges, and I am betting if you really looked..same right to have cops come to your place...just because they don't want to , and there is no reason for them to, does not mean you don't have that right. Also what do you think the odds are, that someone throws a brick threw some guys window..for no reason...and when the guy gets home the cops say ok will make a report, but no need to send someone..but the guy goes...but I am gay! ( black! Jewish! Mexican! )

 

[Pandora]

Again strait people have the right to file a complaint, press charges, and I am betting if you really looked..same right to have cops come to your place...just because they don't want to , and there is no reason for them to, does not mean you don't have that right. Also what do you think the odds are, that someone throws a brick threw some guys window..for no reason...and when the guy gets home the cops say ok will make a report, but no need to send someone..but the guy goes...but I am gay! ( black! Jewish! Mexican! )

Yes the person has to let the police know they are gay jewish black or what ever minority fits for the special rights to kick in.

and yes I should have that right but it doesn't work that way. Only when there is a possible hate crime does the way things are done change.

and I never said straight people did not have the right to file a complaint. I said they are treated differently than homosexual people after the crime is committed due to the hate crime laws.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

Its a right straight people do not have, that is what I was talking about.
I disagree with you that native Americans, JWs or Mormons are in this list

Though Native American is considered a minority it doesnt make the hate crime list in my area, though it might in others.

oh by the way they have anther special right at least in my area that straight people do not have. Men and women must marry to get on each others health insurance here. But homosexual people can just live together. There are no limits as to how long they have to live together but even married people have to be married for at least 6 months before you can add them to your insurance.

Not every straight person wants the commitment of marriage and I personally do not want the government validating my relationships but I am stuck getting married like it or not if i want to put someone on my insurance. I do not have the special rights that homosexuals have

you just named one...the right to put them on your insurance...you have that option...its your choice to marry or not a strait person...Gays don't get that choice. A married person can know someone for 1 hour, and put them on there insurance...

Also would you care to post this "list" of who can have a hate crime against them....I have never seen some official list..Also no insurance I know of here just says well if your both the same sex and lived in same place for 6 months, you can be on same policy...thats called roommates....last I checked my roommate was not able to just put me on his policy or vice versa...

 

[Pandora]

I tried to find the paper, not on my HD...I think I have a paper copy still someplace..I had it posted to 2 websites, one I ran...but both sites are down now...( the one I had was on Geocities and they took down all sites)

At its most Basic...I don't agree with crimes that have to get into intent and thought...Think McCarthyism...the Crime of what you think or believe...I belive that if someone commits a crime with a clear larger intent to target a whole group or race...then that should and can be used as a factor in sentincing...just like any number of factors that can increase or decrease a penalty..but should not be part of a overall greater crime, with a higher possible penalty...if the penalty for the crime is not enough...then maybe we just need to toughen that law...not make a special new case .

If someone throws a brick threw a window...becuse they are a dumb kid and think its funny..there is plenty on the books for destruction of property

if it was to targeted ( insert group here) then you can add other charges on the books, such as harassment, even terrorism, and makeing threats against someone...

Do you remember the Shepard story? I can not remember the boy's full name but he was beat, tortured and killed because he was homosexual.

the people that did this to him should get life in prison for what they did

BUT


what those men did was no more than what a straight man might do to a little girl.

both are equally horrible and both should get the full possible punishment

it does not matter that one guy was killed because he was homosexual and one girl was killed because she was innocent and an easy target

both are dead, both families hurt and both crimes should be treated the same


both were beaten tortured and killed

 

[Pandora]

you just named one...the right to put them on your insurance...you have that option...its your choice to marry or not a strait person...Gays don't get that choice. A married person can know someone for 1 hour, and put them on there insurance...

Also would you care to post this "list" of who can have a hate crime against them....I have never seen some official list..Also no insurance I know of here just says well if your both the same sex and lived in same place for 6 months, you can be on same policy...thats called roommates....last I checked my roommate was not able to just put me on his policy or vice versa...

every state is different and every company. the company I work for (government) homosexuals can add people on their insurance as domestic partners. its a state law too I believe. Straight people may not. I would never government marry again so I am crap out of luck


Though each area has their own list the easiest list to find is already posted in the HOP

do you remember last year the big deal made by congress official list of who was under hate crime laws and they refused to exclude pedophiles in the bill? The official nation wide list is there. Below is a link I quickly found that talks about it but you could probably find a better link.




http://www.traditionalvalues.org/re...se-to-exclude-pedophiles-in-hate-crimes-bill/

 

[pocketfullofshells]

Do you remember the Shepard story? I can not remember the boy's full name but he was beat, tortured and killed because he was homosexual.

the people that did this to him should get life in prison for what they did

BUT


what those men did was no more than what a straight man might do to a little girl.

both are equally horrible and both should get the full possible punishment

it does not matter that one guy was killed because he was homosexual and one girl was killed because she was innocent and an easy target

both are dead, both families hurt and both crimes should be treated the same


both were beaten tortured and killed

First, a group of people who kill a little girl...can get the death penalty or Life...just like if it was a gay person...Just like if it was a white vs a black...and yes some will get less time, some will get more...and sometimes the gay killers will get more...and sometimes less...you don't think a jury is going to push harder on a guy killing a little girl, then a strait adult male? Of course...Just like stats also show that if you kill a white male your more likely to get more jail time then if you kill a black mail...is that a special right for white males? nope...

Also the reason is, in your story...2 people are attacked

was the little girl attacked to send a message to all little girls they are not wanted? Or was the target just that girl...99% of the time...the only target was...her.

Now the gay guy...First if you can't prove it was done because he was gay...there is no hate crime...so point is not valid...so lets say its clear there was...who was the target now? No it was not just him...the target was all gays...it was to strike Terror and fear into...all gays around...not just that target...thus the status of a hate crime, and more victims...

On Sept 11...the Target was not the people who worked in the Trade center...it was all of us, every American...we where all effected...we all where attacked...some paid with there lives... but it effected us all. Had the hijackers been people angry at the World Trade Center..and it was the target...maybe there old bosses ( workplace shooting on the grand scale) it would have effected us all a lot less...we where not the targets...our way of life was not the target.....

That is why Killing Sam Sheppard, was more then just killing a man...it was attacking a community. Also goes to show Islam is not the only one willing to kill people for not following there faith and religion..