California Proposition 8

[ASPCA4EVER]

Mare said: I'm sorry if I am becoming more coarse, I guess I lose my patience a bit sometimes with the mental midgets of the world, I remember someone once saying that most of the shouting comes from the shallow end of the gene pool.

It's too bad that Siho won't watch your YouTube clip, it was pretty funny.

Frankly, I think that you've been remarkably level headed and professionally considerate given the deluge of B.S. that has been shoved your direction!!! It's your life style that Sihouette seems to be 'picking apart like a primate grooming for nits & ticks'...while Sihouettes imperial high handed attitude looks down upon the 'deviant crowd' with contempt and flings vile thoughts and words from that perch!

No, no need to apologize to me...this reader has had bouts of laughter and fits of tears from frustration over the insensitivity and total lack of loving and caring for our fellow humans that just don't quite meet the 'bar' that Sihouette has been allowed to set!

 

[top gun]

I'm sorry if I am becoming more coarse, I guess I lose my patience a bit sometimes with the mental midgets of the world, I remember someone once saying that most of the shouting comes from the shallow end of the gene pool.

It's too bad that Siho won't watch your YouTube clip, it was pretty funny.

I completely understand your frustration. No matter how hard you try she's bent on staying stuck in that unfounded paranoid state.

Hey if you don't mind going back and forth then what the heck. You can't help but notice everybody else that posts this subject seems to support the non-paranoid position.

But my god Siho has talked so many animal analogies I'm starting to come up with some of my own... like...

Never wrestle with a pig. You'll just get dirty and the pig will like it.

What the hell sometimes it's fun to get a little dirty...

 

[Sihouette]

"unfounded" "paranoid"...you guys should start a religion really..
The holy foundation of blessed diversions...

Father [mother?] Mare presiding..lol...

Like I said, your argument isn't really with me, it's with the hundreds of scientists who've found, emperically, that sexual preference in mammals is learned..

I know, I know. To accept that seemingly innocent little fact is like facing Godzilla with a wet spaghetti noodle. But there's just no way around it, fuss, fret, divert and name-call as you will..lol..

 

[ASPCA4EVER]

it's with the hundreds of scientists who've found, emperically, that sexual preference in mammals is learned..

Ya, Hooty...that infamous quantity of 'non-published make believe scientists' just keeps getting larger and larger.

Ok, Sihouette...you win...nobody that I know can fabricate/make up/stand so firmly resolute with the 'non-facts' as you've been able to
I bow to your great ability to fake the facts and keep preaching the false stories. You are the CHAMPION OF THE SUPREME DEVIANT STALKERS...ALL HAIL TO YOU!!!

P.S. Godzilla isn't real...hate to burst that bubble too...but it had to be done!!!

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

"unfounded" "paranoid"...you guys should start a religion really..
The holy foundation of blessed diversions...

Father [mother?] Mare presiding..lol...

Like I said, your argument isn't really with me, it's with the hundreds of scientists who've found, emperically, that sexual preference in mammals is learned..

I know, I know. To accept that seemingly innocent little fact is like facing Godzilla with a wet spaghetti noodle. But there's just no way around it, fuss, fret, divert and name-call as you will

It is funny though that the psychologists who study humans don't agree with you any more than most of the behavioral scientists whose work you posted without examination.

Hundreds of scientists agree with you, but you can't cite even one. Hmmmm... Rectal/cranial inversion? Phone up Lyndon La Rouche, maybe he can help. Or Fred Phelps for that matter.

 

[top gun]

It is funny though that the psychologists who study humans don't agree with you any more than most of the behavioral scientists whose work you posted without examination.

Hundreds of scientists agree with you, but you can't cite even one. Hmmmm... Rectal/cranial inversion? Phone up Lyndon La Rouche, maybe he can help. Or Fred Phelps for that matter.

HUMANS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ARE YOU INSANE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Talk to me about bull semen and psychologically why monkeys throw their own poop and then you'll know something about humans!

 

[Sihouette]

There have been studies and inquires into human sexuality, social pressures and adaptive behaviors. One I came across was an inquiry into prison rape and how it affects victims, the social dynamics and how social pressures can mold sexuality in a system that perpetuates inappropriate influence or coercion as to sexuality..

Take a look:

For male inmates, the dynamics are very different.
While some male inmates are certainly sexually
abused by staff, most male inmates tend to be
sexually abused by other inmates. And in this
case, we see patterns of domination that actually
work out along the lines of our traditional
understandings of gender power dynamics.
WCSAP: Can you explain what you mean
by that?
Lara: What I mean is that when a male inmate
is sexually assaulted by another male inmate, the
victim is “feminized” by the perpetrator. The
perpetrator, despite the fact that he is initiating
the same-sex contact, is allowed to maintain his
heterosexual identity. These perpetrators have
a high status within the prison hierarchy; they
are dominant and well-respected. Victims are
sometimes called female names and have a very
low status in the prison hierarchy.
When a new inmate arrives, other inmates will
try to determine whether he is vulnerable. If
he can’t defend himself from attack, he will be
“turned out,” meaning anyone can use him as a
sexual object. As a coping strategy, some of these
victims with engage in what is called “protective
pairing” in which a more vulnerable inmate
hooks up with a stronger, dominant inmate and
has sex with him in exchange for protection from
other inmates. So, within male prisons, what
we see are a lot of relationships forming that are
extremely coercive in nature....

...“The language used to refer to the act of prison
rape is non-sexual; a clear indication that it is
about power rather than sex. The intention is
to redefine a man as a woman, by forcing upon
him a female role, often described as “turning
him out.”..

..The existence of prison argots and sexual
hierarchies is well documented in research
literature within prisons in the United States.
However, contemporary researchers have not
focused on micro level issues such a prison
culture, or more specifically, prison argots and
sexual hierarchies. This article explores data
from 174 face-to-face interviews with male
inmates in a multi-security level correctional
facility located in Oklahoma. The findings of
the study indicate that prison subculture remains
a major factor in the existence of prison rape,
but that the exact nature of the argots and sexual
hierarchies has changed.
The article begins with a discussion of prison
subculture and the significance of prison
argots. In order to understand rape, one must
understand the cultural context in which it
occurs, that enables one to implicitly or explicitly
condone it....
Source: http://www.wcsap.org/pdf/AdEdDigestMay05.pdf

Admittedly, prison cultures are somewhat closed and often violent systems, made up of people on the fringes of society, usually, but not always as in the case where innocent was found guilty and wrongly sentenced.

But one of the authors goes on to say this:

“Total institutions are closed, single-sex
societies separated from society, socially and
physically. Inhabitants of total institutions
have essentially all decisions about the
structure and content of their daily lives made
for them, and they share all aspects of their
daily lives within these types of institutions.
However, one area in which occupants of total
institutions do retain some degree of control
over is their individual and collective abilities
to develop unique values, norms and means
for exercising social control over such. Central
to this cultural construction is the delineation
of specific social roles, which are accompanied
by rigidly proscribed behavioral expectations.
These distinct values and behavioral roles are
referred to as the prison subculture.”

“Prison researchers who have studied male
prison life have found that inmates use a
special type of language or slang within the
prison subculture that reflects the ‘distorted
norms, values and mores of the offenders.’
As such, the vocabulary and speech patterns
of prison inmates – what is known as prison
argot – are largely distinct from those of
non-inmates. Language, as is well known,
provides the parameters of understanding
and possibilities for constructing a social and
cultural milieu.”

"Chicken" can be used, usually by gay men referring to other gay men, to mean a young gay man or young appearing gay man - stereotypically describing an adolescent youth, usually one with an innocent nature.[1]

Author Bruce Rodgers defines the term as "1. any boy under the age of consent, heterosexual, fair of face, and unfamiliar with homosexuality ("So many chickens were flapping around that I thought we were touring Colonel Sanders' plantation”) 2. juvenile, youthful, young-looking.[2] Others have defined it as a young man who engages in sex for money or favors.[3]

Recently, some conservative Americans began defining the term itself as gay pedophile related.[4] In the subculture of the gay community which uses handkerchiefs or bandannas as a code, people who identify as "Chicken" wear a Kewpie doll in their left back pocket. Those who are interested in young men - referred to as chickenhawks - are denoted in the hanky code as wearing one on the right.[5]

The term has existed in the gay vernacular for many decades, and is still used today. David Henry Sterry, a former prostitute turned actor and director, titled his 2002 memoir, Chicken: Self-Portrait of a Young Man for Rent.[6] Author Philip Herbst traces its origin to the 19th century, where it was used to describe the youngest sailors on a ship, who were often used for sexual purposes. [7]
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_(gay_slang)

So cultural pressures do seem to play a part in sexuality in humans in that those who are more aggressive, with "distorted norms, values and mores" actually wind up dictating the sexual-socio constructs of their surrounding cultural milieu...And sexualizing power-vernacular apparently isn't limited to incarcerated inmates. Indeed it seems to be part of gay culture at large...hmmm

 

[Sihouette]

Let's read more from the article link shall we?

..Facility 2
had the worst sexual coercion climate of the
seven surveyed and postulated the primary
cause appeared to be the use of barrack style
housing, large prison inmate population size,
racial conflict, and lax security, demonstrating
that characteristics of the prison itself also plays
a significant factor in rates of sexual violence
within prisons...

So...environment and enclosures also play a part in sexual coercion and impressing a false sexuality on victims they otherwise would not have chosen for themselves...down to building layouts, crowding, racial parameters and lack of supervision. I wonder if any children fall prey "on the outside" to similar conditions and therefore are affected by them? [you know, because outside of prison there are no human conditions similar to inside prison on which we can extrapoloate this "closed study", right? Did I get that right?]

There's more..

A literature review of the early
research focusing on prison inmate homosexuality
was based one two major perspectives: essentialist
and social constructionism. The early essentialist
perspective of the 1970’s was extremely narrow
in focus and strictly defined sexual identity from
a “normal” versus “deviant” perspective, as well
as asserting that heterosexual men who resorted
to sex in prison did so due to sexual deprivation.
Furthermore, under this perspective, the concept of
rape and consensual sex was ambiguous and largely
undefined. The social constructionist perspective of
the 1990’s however, began to identify more of the
complexities of sexual identity and sexuality within
prisons and examined such traits of how offenders
identified their own sexual identities and pre and
post-prison influences on sexual behavior...

..researcher kept an ongoing mail correspondence
with a group of 25 female offenders during their
times of incarceration. While the specific focus of
the study was related to sexual coercion, inmates
also provided the author with observations about
prison culture and daily life. Three themes were
culled from these letters: 1) a climate of apathy
regarding sexual coercion among inmates, 2)
sexual roles and persona’s adopted by inmates
related to sexual behavior and, 3) institutional
factors related to the incidence of coercion.
The anecdotal observations of the inmates
often commented about their perceptions of
apathy related to coercive behavior. In the
letters, inmates described a lack of community
outrage or resistance to acts of coercion. The
author also includes inmates’ descriptions of the
use of sexual persona’s (such as butch/ femme),
but does not relate the sexual performance
to any particular coercive patterns. Finally,
the inmates’ letters point out two important
institutional contributors to sexual coercion:1)
open dormitory-style housing, which allow the
inmates to frequently change their sleeping
quarters, and 2) apathetic staff.

That reminds me of another quasi-"closed system" situation: my daughter's highschool and the unofficial status of the subculture there as "THE" gay high school in the district. This is the same school where her hetero friends went in straight, lusting after boys and came out lesbian or at least bisexual.n The Staff was apathetic and turned a blind eye, indeed believing, like many prison wardens do, that the subculture was a product of choice on behalf of the "inmates" and not undue coercion..

Will the aggressive pro-deviants in this thread "allow" me to make the extrapolation between the two institutions?

A labeling theory paradigm is presented to explain the complex developments that lead from an inmate’s first victimization to the eventual acceptance of their new label. This new social label is rooted in an ascribed social status that ultimately leads to the internalization of their new sex role as part of a newly adopted self-identity. Lastly, implications for mental health practitioners within custodial institutions are discussed, demonstrating the need for therapist awareness of prison sub-cultural norms to effectively understand and treat victims of prison rape...

..This power structure and the corresponding sub-cultural norms will be used to demonstrate how the prison environment forces the victim of prison rape to assume a deviant role and an undesired label. The assumption of this role leads to the application of a label that holds negative consequences for the individual targeted during this process...

..Labeling theory essentially asks why some acts are labeled deviant when others are not (Akers, 2000). This theory asserts that social group reactions serve to make certain behaviors deviant, regardless of the individual context in which they occur (Vold, Bernard, & Snipes, 1998). This begs the question as to who it is that creates the label associated with deviant behavior. The answer to this inquiry lies with those who hold the power within a given social structure..

..Previously learned sexual and social styles of masculinity, as exercised in the broader society, are adapted and altered within prison so that the male inmate does not lose his position of dominance and control. To fail to do so results in the male inmate accepting a subservient role, or as it is termed in the prison subculture, the role and label of a “woman” (Tucker, 1981)...

..interviews conducted by Davis (1982), during which he found that “consensual” homosexuals tended to be subjugated heterosexuals who had been forced to engage in sex to avoid physical harm. This process, referred to as being “turned out” or “punked out,” effectively redefines and labels the victims’ role in prison as that of a “punk,” or subjugated homosexual (Tucker, 1981). Thus, the homosexual orientation and label placed upon the deviant is not one of self-choice or personal preference, but is forced upon him by more powerful members of the inmate subculture...

..According to Lemert (1999), the deviant is a product of gradual, unconscious processes that are part of socialization, especially subcultural socialization. Lemert (1999) also asserted that the personality change that occurs from accepting and internalizing a deviant label is not always gradual but can be sudden. As Lemert (1999) states, “…it must be taken into consideration that traumatic experiences often speed up changes in personality…” (p. 386). ..

..the initial gang rape can be thought of as the source of primary deviance, whereas the deliberate decision to engage in “consensual” homosexuality with one partner essentially results in a more solidified self-identity. But this process creates a degree of cognitive dissonance within the individual which, when resolved, tends to leave the victim more willing to engage in future homosexual conduct. Indeed, this dissonance is the crux of this adjustment process where the victim’s original identity is juxtaposed against their newly ascribed identity, resulting in an eventual psychological metamorphosis from the point of primary deviance to that of secondary deviance through future acts of homosexuality (Festinger, 1958; Lemert, 1999)...

..For many inmates, the role of prison “punk” produces a self-fulfilling prophecy. Over time, many inmates who are forced into the subjugated role of “punk” learn that certain creature comforts can be obtained if they are willing to comply with sexual demands. Thus, many come to identify with and dress the part, act the part, and even to rationalize their role. Indeed, this role can frequently go well beyond that of simple sexual services, extending to a relationship of complete and total servitude. Many will submit to cooking, cleaning, mending, and other activities typically held to be “feminine” by the prison subculture as well as mainstream society...

..While these inmates will frequently rationalize their activity as one of survival, their participation can lead them to a complete internalization of the role. With the label fully applied, many “homosexual” inmates will thus make the most of their remaining time in prison and will strive to obtain whatever securities their role can bring them. When the inmate begins to see himself as a “punk” and resolves his feelings of dissonance, the label becomes a source of self-identity. While the label of punk denotes lower status within the inmate pecking order, the punk learns to fulfill the role in a manner that allows a relatively trouble-free existence, so long as he continues to live the role. Thus, what was once a forced or coerced label effectively becomes a label with which the victimized inmate identifies with and accepts as a definition of his self....Source: http://www.shsu.edu/~piic/summer2002/Hanser.htm

If I'm allowed to here, I wonder if I can postulate that prison is not the only human society that imposes pressures to conform this way or that. That it is not the only semi-closed human social system where dominant members impose pressures creating deviant behavior...all with an underlying sexual theme?

Yeah, probably not...

 

[Sihouette]

Think of this thread as a little subculture of its own. Now step back and look at the dynamics of power and aggression.

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

Think of this thread as a little subculture of its own. Now step back and look at the dynamics of power and aggression.

No one has ever said that humans in cages weren't malleable, but we're not talking about that--only you are. We're talking about the real world where your cage-mentality doesn't apply.

 

[Sihouette]

If you read my inserts you will note that I predicted that as your reply in advance.

This shows your "logic" when responding. You ridiculed me for not having references showing sexuality as learned. I gave you some thousand of them in previous pages. None of them were good enough for you because they were of animal studies as extrapolated to human behavior ie: the field of comparative psychology.

Ergo you are expecting readers to side with you that comparative psychology is not a legitmate field of research..

And you began to ridicule me again [if you deny this, I will copy and paste your words] so I provided examples of human studies that show societies and environment do indeed exert real, tangible and permanent pressures via complex power struggles utilizing sexuality. And I cited a couple of examples intended to allude to the fact that really, whether it is the walls of the home, the office, the school or the prison, any institution involving humans should be expected to exhibit similar trends. My daughter's school a case in point and suffocating conditions within the prison walls of a dysfunctional family or worksite would be others.

Again, not good enough for you. Apparently now we cannot use even human trends in behavior and social structures to predict other human's expected behaviors given similar pressures. Am I right? Isnt' that what you're now saying?

I think it would suffice for you if we just openly declared all forms of psychology off limits when discussing the gay marriage issue eh? Let's just ignore entire fields of science and research that tell us sexual preference is learned [and therefore can be "taught" or "foisted"]. I can see how that square peg won't fit nicely into your round hole of being a benign minority group "just out for fairness"..

And as to the personal attacks ongoing from you and your cohorts on the side of "gay rights", let me remind you of the forum rules here:

The Forum Rules (Three simple rules):

1. No personal attacks.
----------------------------------------
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The only links that are allowed are the links you use to cite a source.
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Anyone not following the rules will be warned, suspended, or banned.

 

[Sihouette]

Meanwhile outside the prison walls and fighting for deviant rights on a website near you, we have, again, a word from their street-vernacular of many equally exploitive words for your perusal. [Get used to the new "lingo" there'll be lots more in the future once deviance is mainstreamed..]

I'm thinking of starting a new series of posts where I explore common GLBT lingo, the words and their common definition and usage.

"Chicken"

"Chicken" can be used, usually by gay men referring to other gay men, to mean a young gay man or young appearing gay man - stereotypically describing an adolescent youth, usually one with an innocent nature.[1]

Author Bruce Rodgers defines the term as "1. any boy under the age of consent, heterosexual, fair of face, and unfamiliar with homosexuality ("So many chickens were flapping around that I thought we were touring Colonel Sanders' plantation”) 2. juvenile, youthful, young-looking.[2] Others have defined it as a young man who engages in sex for money or favors.[3]

Recently, some conservative Americans began defining the term itself as gay pedophile related.[4] In the subculture of the gay community which uses handkerchiefs or bandannas as a code, people who identify as "Chicken" wear a Kewpie doll in their left back pocket. Those who are interested in young men - referred to as chickenhawks - are denoted in the hanky code as wearing one on the right.[5]

The term has existed in the gay vernacular for many decades, and is still used today. David Henry Sterry, a former prostitute turned actor and director, titled his 2002 memoir, Chicken: Self-Portrait of a Young Man for Rent.[6] Author Philip Herbst traces its origin to the 19th century, where it was used to describe the youngest sailors on a ship, who were often used for sexual purposes

Nah, gays are nothing about mental-recruitment or undue coercion..

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

Meanwhile outside the prison walls and fighting for deviant rights on a website near you, we have, again, a word from their street-vernacular of many equally exploitive words for your perusal. [Get used to the new "lingo" there'll be lots more in the future once deviance is mainstreamed..]

I'm thinking of starting a new series of posts where I explore common GLBT lingo, the words and their common definition and usage.

"Chicken"

Nah, gays are nothing about mental-recruitment or undue coercion..

Keep trying, Siho, maybe you could get pictures of gays kidnapping children and keeping them in cages or feedlots while they indoctrinate them. Face it, kiddo, your credibility is so shot that if you said the Sun came up in the morning people would go out and look before they'd believe you.

 

[top gun]

Meanwhile outside the prison walls and fighting for deviant rights on a website near you, we have, again, a word from their street-vernacular of many equally exploitive words for your perusal. [Get used to the new "lingo" there'll be lots more in the future once deviance is mainstreamed..]

I'm thinking of starting a new series of posts where I explore common GLBT lingo, the words and their common definition and usage.

"Chicken"

Nah, gays are nothing about mental-recruitment or undue coercion..

Humm... you mean as opposed to it being very common now days for young heterosexual men to call women they label as easy "pigeon heads" connecting of the way a pigeons bobs it's head when it walks to a woman giving oral sex... you mean like that kinda stuff?

Why do you go on with this stupid gay bashing? There are negative slangs & slurs in any demographic.

These kind of gay baiting posts make you look ridiculous. Half the stuff that's really going on in the world you obviously have no clue about out there on the farm. So your uninformed one sided attacks just keep glaringly showing your lack of overall knowledge on the subject.

Take a trip to the big city and grow a little... seriously

 

[ASPCA4EVER]

Rather amusing the way in which the 'deviant topic generator' has of cut & pasting stats about a book written by a gay criminal and the prison system and that the 'gays have this special lingo of describing their own 'sexual language' and when that seems hardly enough fire power {and has nothing to do with the Prop. #8 topic} she pulls in the "RULES" of the board for beefing up her argument like we are the ones leading the topic off and into the ditch!!!

My, My, MY but this has been quite the roller-coaster of a ride...and we've followed her into each and every 'blind alley' and it still just that an ALLEY/DEAD END going nowhere. But now she's warning us that she got the "RULES" of the board to support her opinion! OOOOHHH, that was heavy, really heavy...can't bluff them with knowledge, threaten them with the 'RULES'. LMAO