Bush US: Hypocrisy Personified & Astounding

[Shadow]

And why on earth would we be giving out freebies anyway, that is a complete waste, since it obviously gets us nowhere.

indeed. When there is nothing in it for the US.....why bother??? and you are right. The US owes the world nothing......... except an apology for all the death and destruction it has caused so many. But THAT won't happen......as it takes wisdom , courage and maturity to know when to apologize , all sorely lacking at the moment.


Rob: Security over reputation. Fair enough. As long as your fanatical quest for "security" does not harm anyone else. You want to build a fence around the US and isolate the US even further on the basis of security. go ahead.

It might be a shock.........but the world will go on without the US influence. Just keep in mind too..........that China virtually OWNS the US. THAT does not put the US in a position of strength. Without MONEY..........even the military complex ( which is THE thing in the US ) cannot function for long.

 

[Andy]

1. it is the US that is the spoilt over reactive little immature brat. It cannot even FACE the realities of what it is and has become.

Accusation, zero substance. Broad brush, no evidence.

2. The world owes the US NOTHING. You can be sure the US benefitted greatly with every so called 'humanitarian " act it performed. The US does not give away freebies. The US is NOT a benevolent society. It operates from the " what is in it for me" ??? principle. Reality check, Andy boy.

Really... without the US, Europe would be under the nazis. Without the US, most of the world would be like east Berlin. Without the US, where would the rest of the world sell their goods? Without the US, most of the technological advances would not have happened. And who does the world cry to when something goes wrong elsewhere?

3. Just as well, that the US does not give a damn about its reputation. IF it did, it might be horrified to find out how bad it is now.

Our reputation speaks for itself. Who has the largest economy? Who has the most military power? Whose allies do the best? Remember the Asia tigers? That's our allies following our example. You think it's bad? It's only bad because the rest of the world is envious and can't stand that we out perform them by such a large margin.

If they think we're so bad, stop selling us all your products. You'll be broke, we'll be fine.

4. Just because you suffer from a serious deluded case of hero worship about the military and cannot deal with a picture without getting petulant and acting like a silly victim , that is YOUR problem. You are offended by a silly photo.?? Tough. It is not the end of the world.

Of course it's not. Instead I just blast your pathetic baseless arguments to the nothingness they always were. And smile to myself at a job well done.

btw: NO OFFENSE to the many fine individual americans who are smart enough to realize the gravity of the current situation. And are not blinded by their gov't BS (aka rhetoric) It is them that offer hope to the US and the rest of the world...as THEY represent what the REAL america stands for. Innovative, questioning, not taking their gov lies at face value , ...progressive , educated , wise and quietly courageous . The busheviks and the McCain groups don't qualify.........as they are too hell bent on being militant and addicted to power.

I doubt very much that you know anything about McCain. That said, I truly do support the idea of letting most of the world crumble. If Russia starts marching towards France, I'd let em fall. When the next round of socialism threatens the world with Gulags and concentration camps... awwww at least those mean ol Americans didn't fight for our freedom, I love this little cell with bread and water and plenty of work.

 

[BigRob]

indeed. When there is nothing in it for the US.....why bother??? and you are right. The US owes the world nothing......... except an apology for all the death and destruction it has caused so many. But THAT won't happen......as it takes wisdom , courage and maturity to know when to apologize , all sorely lacking at the moment.

We do not owe anyone an apology for anything. The US is not even close to being responsible for anywhere near the death and destruction caused by China, Russia, Germany, Cambodia etc.

Rob: Security over reputation. Fair enough. As long as your fanatical quest for "security" does not harm anyone else. You want to build a fence around the US and isolate the US even further on the basis of security. go ahead.

I do not believe that isolationism is security. Security requires a proactive approach.

It might be a shock.........but the world will go on without the US influence. Just keep in mind too..........that China virtually OWNS the US. THAT does not put the US in a position of strength.

Indeed it would go on, but why on Earth would we as America simply let that happen as it would only hurt us? Perhaps when making your comments on China you should note that China props up their currency with the American dollar, (to make their exports more attractive) China is in no position to weaken the US economy unless they are prepared to tank their own.

 

[Shadow]

Our reputation speaks for itself.

~ Andy.



Very true.

 

[Andy]

indeed. When there is nothing in it for the US.....why bother??? and you are right. The US owes the world nothing......... except an apology for all the death and destruction it has caused so many. But THAT won't happen......as it takes wisdom , courage and maturity to know when to apologize , all sorely lacking at the moment.

Our people died to free most of the planet. The world is owed nothing, ever.

Rob: Security over reputation. Fair enough. As long as your fanatical quest for "security" does not harm anyone else. You want to build a fence around the US and isolate the US even further on the basis of security. go ahead.

Absolutely. Look at this post. If this is what we get for stopping terrorism world wide, which has effect hundreds of nations, then maybe isolating our selves, and letting everyone else's citizens get killed, is the way to go.

If we save everyones life, and they just want to whine about it, let em burn. Bite the hand that feeds you, don't expect anymore food. Let the rest of the terror networks have a field day. The US will no longer do anything provided you leave us alone. Kill anyone else, go for it.

It might be a shock.........but the world will go on without the US influence. Just keep in mind too..........that China virtually OWNS the US. THAT does not put the US in a position of strength.

I completely agree with that one single statement. China does own too much of our debt. $1 single dollar being too much. The US government needs to stop blowing money on socialist policies that get us into debt.

That said, we should cut all funding of aid, all foreign support, all food support, all medical support, all foreign loans, disband the IMF, and end all entangling alliances, cancel the UN which we seem to be the only ones paying for. I also think we should massively support energy independence, by drilling, just to spite those that hate us, yet get all their money from the oil and other resources they sell us.

 

[Shadow]

Security requires a proactive approach.

IOW: attack, invade other nations on the basis of "security" , while fullfilling another agenda (Imperalism). ????


Those "terrorists" did the USG the biggest favor. Without 9-11 , there is no way the busheviks would have gotten away with as much as they have.

....and a bi product of all this is a very "security" conscious population which endorses every destructive act their govt undertakes on the grounds of "security".


where oh where would the US be without some "enemy" or "threat" ??? Both define the US militancy. and general essence.

 

[Andy]

~ Andy.



Very true.

Yes very true indeed.

 

[Andy]

IOW: attack, invade other nations on the basis of "security" , while fullfilling another agenda (Imperalism). ????

Returning a country to self rule is imperialism in your world? How about stopping a mad man who supported terrorist actions against US targets? Yeah, that qualifies as 'security'.

Those "terrorists" did the USG the biggest favor. Without 9-11 , there is no way the busheviks would have gotten away with as much as they have.

Another personal attack. Yes they likely would have. Bush was already preparing to deal with Saddam prior to 9/11, just as Clinton was prior to Bush. Try again.

....and a bi product of all this is a very "security" conscious population which endorses every destructive act their govt undertakes on the grounds of "security".

Not true. I didn't support Mogadishu, nor did I support wiping out the Serbs.

 

[Shadow]

just to spite those that hate us,

Now , THAT is real mature. Particularly when it seems that many don't really UNDERSTAND the basis for the anger at the US.

Perhaps if it stopped and did some serious self analysis , self reflection it might realize that its actions are NOT as wonderful as some indicate on here. The US has done a LOT Of good for and to the world. So have other nations. (that can.). Then again........the US has been richer than most too....... and is able to do so.

The Underlying anger is NOT about jealousy, of the US or its "freedoms " or any of the crap busheviks spew. It is about the arrogance , beligerance , bullying that the US is noted for. (and all else that is in keeping with that theme)

Some tact, true diplomacy , and FAIRNESS in the policies would make a remarkable change in how the US is percieve. You see, the US IS very capable of being cooperative, diplomatic, Fair, tactful and all those positive things. It just chooses not to be. It prefers the arrogant aggressive , demanding stance. No one takes kindly to that.

 

[Shadow]

Returning a country to self rule is imperialism in your world? How about stopping a mad man who supported terrorist actions against US targets? Yeah, that qualifies as 'security'.



Another personal attack. Yes they likely would have. Bush was already preparing to deal with Saddam prior to 9/11, just as Clinton was prior to Bush. Try again.



Not true. I didn't support Mogadishu, nor did I support wiping out the Serbs.

ANDY, ANDY, ANDY.............ya have drunk the cool-aide. For one brief shining moment I thought we could actually discuss something .....

 

[Shadow]

Of course bush had plans to invade Iraq BEFORE 9-11. That is and was known. In fact he had that as his objective (or one of them.) before he was even elected.

You gotta admit that it is hilarious to review the changing excuses he came up with to "justify" his lust for invading Iraq for its resources and positioning in the ME. Both are about POWER. He could care less about the Iraqis and how they live. Look at what they have to put up with now. Ordinary essentials are not available to them. Many have left THEIR country as they can't live securely , and safely there any more. and don't blame others. The US created this mess. Willingly, and with intent.

How anyone can be so naive as to buy the "free the Iraqis " crap , is beyond belief. Have folks stopped THINKING and analysing the BS their Gov spews to them??? If so , then they are slaves to their regimes slogans.and lies.

IF deposing SH was the objective, it could have been done without slaughtering so many Iraqis. then lets not forget the other lie from bush about NOT being into regime change.


sheesh, what does it take for folks to see through the crap they are being fed???

 

[Shadow]

Why Andy even thinks the US healthcare system is super good. Duhhhhhhh!

LOL. Maybe for him it is. It all depends on ones expectations and standards, now, don't it??

 

[Dawkinsrocks]

It was Al Qaeda, then WMD, then regime change but the funny thing is that Al Qaeda is run by a Saudi, there were no WMD and there are loads of countries that could benefit from regime change (the US being one of them).

But the US adminstration knows its people well.

It knows it can lie and lie and lie again and most of them will just carry on believeing in the goodness of their leaders.

Despite the fact that oil barons, running an oil dependent country running out of oil attacked an oil rich country that was not attacking them.

Do you think it could have been for oil at all?

 

[Andy]

Now , THAT is real mature. Particularly when it seems that many don't really UNDERSTAND the basis for the anger at the US.

Nor is it mature to demand we help everyone else out, then whine about Imperialism when we prevent a mad man from causing us problems.

Perhaps if it stopped and did some serious self analysis , self reflection it might realize that its actions are NOT as wonderful as some indicate on here. The US has done a LOT Of good for and to the world. So have other nations. (that can.). Then again........the US has been richer than most too....... and is able to do so.

Ah you admit we have done a lot of good. BTW, I totally agree that some of our actions were not all that great. We setup exiled Cubans to help them kick out a communist tyrant, and then at the time of the event, refused them air support and got them all killed, dooming an entire nation to years of tyranny.

However, just because we are the richest nation doesn't mean we owe anyone else anything. We choose to help other nations out. We can choose not too. We choose to help Iraqis have self rule under a new republic government. And they love that we are helping them.

The Underlying anger is NOT about jealousy, of the US or its "freedoms " or any of the crap busheviks spew. It is about the arrogance , beligerance , bullying that the US is noted for. (and all else that is in keeping with that theme)

More empty personal insults. You are not helping your case, just making yourself look bitter. Yes it is Jealousy.

Some tact, true diplomacy , and FAIRNESS in the policies would make a remarkable change in how the US is percieve. You see, the US IS very capable of being cooperative, diplomatic, Fair, tactful and all those positive things. It just chooses not to be. It prefers the arrogant aggressive , demanding stance. No one takes kindly to that.

See I don't even get where you come up with these unsupportable claims.

In February of 1991, Iraq and the US, signed a cease-fire agreement. Part of that was that Iraq would disarm it's WMD programs, and destroy it's existing stock piles. In the process it would allow UN inspectors to come in and simply verify what had been done.

Instead, Saddam spent the next ten years playing hide and seek with his weapons. Eventually kicking out the inspectors in the late 90s. We talked, and had diplomacy for 10 years. We gave him chance after chance to do what he signed he would do in 1991. He could have completed this request at any moment during those 10 years, by simply destroying the weapons, and telling the UN to come out an verify.

We were cooperative for 10 years. We had fair and tactful and all those positive things for 10 years. We did all that yak yak talking and blaw blaw blaw back and forth for 10 years. For anyone to think otherwise is arrogant and stupid. Well after 10 years, we had enough. In 1999, Clinton and the entire administration made the case for taking out Saddam. Unfortunately, Clinton was a lame president who never did anything of any real value. Bush, on the other hand, saw what had to be done, and did it. If anyone doesn't take to kindly to that, tough for them. We're happy, and the Iraqis are happy. That all that matters.

Until you show me some actual Iraqis that are demanding to go back to rape rooms and being wiped out with WMDs, then this is empty unsupportable whininess.

 

[Dawkinsrocks]

What about that ever so inconvenient truth about the Iraqis not having any WMD?

You can't play hide and see with nuclear weapons factories.

Would you prefer to believe that US intelligence is really stupid or that the whole thing was a lie?