Abortion

[top gun]

Had you put your child up for adoption, it would be living right now with a family that genuinely wanted a child and was able to care for it and would have paid for your medical expenses during the pregnancy. How was killing it the better choice?

Or they could be a drug addled street person. They could be the next mentally abused Charles Manson.

You are not clairvoyant! You have absolutely no idea whatsoever how anyone's life will turn out.

The bottom line is you want to keep women subservient to men. You speak in lofty terms and struggle to make religious opinions into Constitutional arguments but you have been and always will be wrong.

What you're really doing is cutting off your nose to spite your face for one very obvious reason. Women will never go back. Women make up over half of the population. And although I see no way in hell this would ever happen... the very second that any Political Party set in motion the overturn of Roe v. Wade the other side would immediately set into motion a Constitutional Amendment allowing for a women's control over her own body including the right of choice in regard to an abortion.

Because of the circumstances requiring immediate action this would pass handily and the Political Party supporting those women would be supported in the most serious of ways.

It's really a ridiculous argument once people really understand the BS you're promoting. In your world even today's safe & effective Birth Control Pill would be outlawed because technically if life starts at conception the egg is already fertilized and the Pill contaminates to womb so that it cannot attach "an it's aborted"!

Miscarriages... 10's of thousands of miscarriages happen every single day. Some because the woman refused bed rest, did not follow their doctors advice and risked the loosing of the pregnancy. In your world now they to are now murderers. Maybe we can set up special prison camps just for women who have an abortion or don't follow doctor orders. Criminally investigate every miscarriage.

You're so to the Right of wrong that you make Hitler look like a kid at Woodstock... you know that right?

This is a birth control issue. A women's personal medical privacy issue. A woman's life and health decisions issue. And it should obviously not be decided by you, or me, or the government but the actual WOMAN involved. She has all of the burden. Creating some forced government incubator world my sound just wonderful to you but it is wrong... and it would never ever stand.

 

[BigRob]

Or they could be a drug addled street person. They could be the next mentally abused Charles Manson.

You are not clairvoyant! You have absolutely no idea whatsoever how anyone's life will turn out.

Or they could have cured Cancer. By your logic we should kill all babies because they might turn out to be bad people.

The bottom line is you want to keep women subservient to men. You speak in lofty terms and struggle to make religious opinions into Constitutional arguments but you have been and always will be wrong.

What you're really doing is cutting off your nose to spite your face for one very obvious reason. Women will never go back. Women make up over half of the population. And although I see no way in hell this would ever happen... the very second that any Political Party set in motion the overturn of Roe v. Wade the other side would immediately set into motion a Constitutional Amendment allowing for a women's control over her own body including the right of choice in regard to an abortion.

The lawyers who tried Roe V Wade open admit they made up many of their "facts" just to ensure that it passed. The person they tried it for is now pro-life. So, given that it is based on a "lie", where is the outrage?

Remember that in the decision of Roe V Wade, it was written in the majority opinion that a woman had to right to choice, but the judges were unable to point to the actual amendment which allowed for that. The decision said they thought it was one but might be the other. Some logic.

It's really a ridiculous argument once people really understand the BS you're promoting. In your world even today's safe & effective Birth Control Pill would be outlawed because technically if life starts at conception the egg is already fertilized and the Pill contaminates to womb so that it cannot attach "an it's aborted"!

A condom is not an abortion because there is no conception. Therefore no life has been created to kill.

Miscarriages... 10's of thousands of miscarriages happen every single day. Some because the woman refused bed rest, did not follow their doctors advice and risked the loosing of the pregnancy. In your world now they to are now murderers. Maybe we can set up special prison camps just for women who have an abortion or don't follow doctor orders. Criminally investigate every miscarriage.

You're so to the Right of wrong that you make Hitler look like a kid at Woodstock... you know that right?

Having a miscarriage is not a murder. Intentionally going to a clinic to kill an otherwise healthy baby is the problem.

You look stupid bringing Hitler into the argument.

This is a birth control issue. A women's personal medical privacy issue. A woman's life and health decisions issue. And it should obviously not be decided by you, or me, or the government but the actual WOMAN involved. She has all of the burden. Creating some forced government incubator world my sound just wonderful to you but it is wrong... and it would never ever stand.

Does the father not have any say in the matter? After all, it is his child too?

 

[Pandora]

Does the father not have any say in the matter? After all, it is his child too?

I bet they will say no for one important reason,

they can not admit that they are talking about a child, because then they have to admit they are monsters for advocating killing them.

even in the born alive act, the living child laying there on a table not connected to the mother, they can not admit that is a human child laying there because if they do they have to admit they are monsters for trying to kill the child, and worse than monsters for letting the child lay there without any medical care.

 

[palerider]

Or they could be a drug addled street person. They could be the next mentally abused Charles Manson.

You are not clairvoyant! You have absolutely no idea whatsoever how anyone's life will turn out.

And you are? You, in your godlike wisdom can say that this child will be drug addled and that will work out cold fusion? You have no idea either and there is a word for people who act in a state of uncertainty when great harm may result.

Care to guess what that word is?

 

[Federal Farmer]

Abortion is murder, it's just that simple.

If one must be performed to save the life of the mother, then it's justifiable homicide. In the case of rape or incest, again, it is again justified. Anything other than that, she's attempting to abrogate her responsibilities at the cost of another humans life.

 

[palerider]

Abortion is murder, it's just that simple.

If one must be performed to save the life of the mother, then it's justifiable homicide. In the case of rape or incest, again, it is again justified. Anything other than that, she's attempting to abrogate her responsibilities at the cost of another humans life.

No offense, but whenever I see the rape or incest justification being used, I have to ask what rational argument you make for killing a child for the crimes of his or her father?

 

[Pandora]

No offense, but whenever I see the rape or incest justification being used, I have to ask what rational argument you make for killing a child for the crimes of his or her father?

agreed!

 

[top gun]

BigRob;58647]Or they could have cured Cancer. By your logic we should kill all babies because they might turn out to be bad people.

That was not the point. The point was nobody knows.

The point is the Woman involved has the power to abort anytime she likes. The only thing Pro-Choice people want to do is cloak it in illegality and risk more womens lives in back alley abortion clinics and desperate personal coat hanger techniques. You are completely from another world if you believe there weren't abortions going on every single day back when abortion was illegal.

Did ya not watch the movie Dirty Dancing? That was a very accurate depiction for the time. It's wrong and as a father of 2 beautiful daughters it disgusts me every time some "man" acts like they should be deciding for them what is best, what their body must bear and what kind of medical services they should be allowed.

It's over zealous and it's wrong!

A condom is not an abortion because there is no conception. Therefore no life has been created to kill.

And just who appointed you in this free country of The United States of America to decide my wife or my daughters birth control. We do not believe what you believe. You can do whatever YOU want! That's the problem we're not trying to control what's best for you. We're completely satisfied just minding our own business.

Having a miscarriage is not a murder. Intentionally going to a clinic to kill an otherwise healthy baby is the problem.

Well sure it would be. If a doctor put a woman on full bed rest and said... If you go back to work you will quite possibly loose your baby... and she looses the baby she made that choice. She put her income before her child and it died. In your perfect world there be manslaughter cases all over the place... it's ridiculous!

Does the father not have any say in the matter? After all, it is his child too?

Unfortunately no. And I do mean unfortunately. As a man I would hope & pray that I could have a heavy influence on her decision. But at the end of the day it amazes me that anyone cannot get it through their head that it's THE WOMAN that suffers through a pregnancy. It's THE WOMAN that risks her life in child birth.

There's a big difference between supportive advice and promises of support and having the government come in, strip away your rights and force you to bear children against your will or make you a crimminal... because bottom line after you get all the Holy Roller stuff out of the way... that's what it is!

 

[top gun]

And you are? You, in your godlike wisdom can say that this child will be drug addled and that will work out cold fusion? You have no idea either and there is a word for people who act in a state of uncertainty when great harm may result.

Care to guess what that word is?

That's EXACTLY what I'm telling YOU! No one knows that. I watch you try to browbeat women that have actually been in a circumstance you could never in a million years even imagine into some idealist "everything would have been great if you just hadn't had that abortion" BS.

You know no more about pregnancy than the women you try an patronize would know about getting kicked in the BALLS!

The fact is if men had to give child birth abortion would be as accessible as Viagra. It wouldn't even be a question today. Any stigma would have been explained away hundreds of years ago.

 

[palerider]

The point is the Woman involved has the power to abort anytime she likes. The only thing Pro-Choice people want to do is cloak it in illegality and risk more womens lives in back alley abortion clinics and desperate personal coat hanger techniques. You are completely from another world if you believe there weren't abortions going on every single day back when abortion was illegal.

Actually, what pro lifers want is to protect the right of all human beings to live. As to worrying about people injuring themselves while breaking the law? Sorry, I can't work up much pity. Especially if the woman is trying to kill a child because it is too inconvenient.

Did ya not watch the movie Dirty Dancing? That was a very accurate depiction for the time. It's wrong and as a father of 2 beautiful daughters it disgusts me every time some "man" acts like they should be deciding for them what is best, what their body must bear and what kind of medical services they should be allowed.

You know, people have been killed while comitting armed robbery. Should we make that legal? People have been killed while comitting all manner of crimes. Should we make them all legal? Your argument does nothing to justify one individual killing another for reasons of convenience.

And just who appointed you in this free country of The United States of America to decide my wife or my daughters birth control. We do not believe what you believe. You can do whatever YOU want! That's the problem we're not trying to control what's best for you. We're completely satisfied just minding our own business.

What you believe is irrelavent. What you can prove or justify is all that matters and you can't justify your position. Hell, you won't even honestly state your position because it is too distasteful to articulate.

Say it top gun.

Say that you favor allowing women to kill a human being, without judicial review, or legal consequence for any or no reason.

 

[GenSeneca]

I don't believe in Religion, so you'll have to find another argument to use against me, but I do believe in science and individual rights and its for those reasons that I don't support Abortion.

Only the woman with the child has any rights according to Pro-Murder lobby. However, the "mass of inviable tissue" has a DNA code distinctly unique from that of the mother - making that ''tissue mass'' an individual in the eyes of Science and hopefully one day the law. That individual should be entitled to the rights of any other individual and not simply property of the mother, to do with as she pleases... even after being born.

Some children survive late term abortion attempts are are BORN ALIVE. People like Obama say those children need to be killed because letting that child live, goes against the original wishes of the mother - who wanted that child aborted.

So its one thing to claim while the child is in the mothers womb she has the authority to decide whether it lives or dies BUT once that child is BORN... that mother, and the people who kill that child to follow the mothers wishes, SHOULD be seen as murderers, thats what they are for denying an individual his rights.

 

[BigRob]

That was not the point. The point was nobody knows.

The point is the Woman involved has the power to abort anytime she likes. The only thing Pro-Choice people want to do is cloak it in illegality and risk more womens lives in back alley abortion clinics and desperate personal coat hanger techniques. You are completely from another world if you believe there weren't abortions going on every single day back when abortion was illegal.

Did ya not watch the movie Dirty Dancing? That was a very accurate depiction for the time. It's wrong and as a father of 2 beautiful daughters it disgusts me every time some "man" acts like they should be deciding for them what is best, what their body must bear and what kind of medical services they should be allowed.

It's over zealous and it's wrong!

I agree that there were back alley abortions. But during the case the lawyers made up numbers of how many to make it sound worse than it was. In reality this was not as big a problem as everyone wants to claim that it was.

In reality, the death rate during abortions went up after it was made legal. The year before abortion became legal, the National Center for Heath Statistics estimated that only 24 people were killed in back alley abortions (1972). Compare that to 25 in 1973, 26 in 1974, and 29 in 1975.

Some have claimed that the number of illegal abortion-related deaths were not reported accurately or underreported. Yet, when a woman was seriously injured by an abortion, she went to another doctor for care. The abortion practitioner was rarely involved at that point. The new doctor in many cases had to attempt to save the mother's life. In cases of maternal death, this new doctor was required to report, and falsification of the death certificate was a felony. Therefore, prior to legalization of abortion, it's safe to say deaths from illegal abortions were rarely covered up.

And just who appointed you in this free country of The United States of America to decide my wife or my daughters birth control. We do not believe what you believe. You can do whatever YOU want! That's the problem we're not trying to control what's best for you. We're completely satisfied just minding our own business.

Just pointing out options for of birth control that do not "break the religious views."

That said, I have no problem with someone taking the pill or wearing the patch, but that said, once the baby is actually set in the womb, it becomes wrong to kill it.

Well sure it would be. If a doctor put a woman on full bed rest and said... If you go back to work you will quite possibly loose your baby... and she looses the baby she made that choice. She put her income before her child and it died. In your perfect world there be manslaughter cases all over the place... it's ridiculous!

This is some example that is rare and does not happen very often. But that seems to be what many people use to try to justify abortion to themselves.

Unfortunately no. And I do mean unfortunately. As a man I would hope & pray that I could have a heavy influence on her decision. But at the end of the day it amazes me that anyone cannot get it through their head that it's THE WOMAN that suffers through a pregnancy. It's THE WOMAN that risks her life in child birth.

If there is a huge health danger to the mother, most people would agree that there can be an abortion, the problem is that is less than 1% of all abortions.

There's a big difference between supportive advice and promises of support and having the government come in, strip away your rights and force you to bear children against your will or make you a crimminal... because bottom line after you get all the Holy Roller stuff out of the way... that's what it is!

If you do not want to bear children, try keeping your pants on.

 

[Angelabove]

It is the individuals choice. Cindy Mccain disagree with Palins standards on abortion to some degree.

 

[Dr.Who]

It is the individuals choice. Cindy Mccain disagree with Palins standards on abortion to some degree.

Well if it's a blob if tissue that is just a part of the women's body then of course it is an individual choice.

But if it is a living (verified by science) human (verified by science) individual (verified by science) person (not verified by science since this is a religious question) then it is murder. And since we don't make any other murders up to the individual to decide why should we leave this type up to the individual?

 

[Angelabove]

In what cases is abortion okay??? The Bible speaks against incest right? I will give you case which my job is handling now (can't release her name due to the current status)..an 18 year old mute girl fell out at her home and was rushed to the hospital and in the process of being examined the doctor informed that she was molested. Unfortunately she is really messed up down there and will not be able to give birth and it is confirmed that her dad and cousin was molesting her for sometime. My question is..If that young lady was to become impregnated in that assault, you are telling me that her mom should not have the pregnancy terminated? The government should not have a say in that.

Until we are in someone elses shoes we would understand better. I don't know if your mom is alive or not but say if it was your mom, wife, sister, grandmother, and etc... believe me your mind set would be different.