a question for the atheists

[Dawkinsrocks]

The fact is that Christians should have qualms about celebrating Xmas

There is no evidence that a man called jesus christ was born on dec 25th 2012 years ago

The celebration the Christians hijacked is the pagan festival of Yule

They celebrate with pagan imagery which I'm guessing god doesn't like

That is when they aren't celebrating with gluttony and wanton consumerism

But I suppose at least Xmas shows how stupid Christians are

And hypocritical

And ignorant

And gullible

 

[TheJPRD]

There you go again with your fantasy that you are "clarifying" Washington's position. . . when all you are doing is "interpreting" his position and YOUR interpretation is no more (or no less) valid that anyone else's interpretation who can read and use critical analysis of the context (including the time period).

And I believe that the question that started this discussion was precisely the misquote. . whether or not it was intentional, and why one would misquote a historic statement and spread the MISQUOTE rather than the real statement around.

It is funny though that, I answered your "interpretation" by telling you how I believe your idea of "revolution" is a moot point, but you chose not to even address MY point of view on this.

Which is fine with me. . .I just think you love to split hair and you tend to get overly focus on what YOU want, and what YOU can "explain" to others, seemingly without any concern for what OTHERS' opinions may be!

Some here attack the messenger, rather than addressing my arguments and the facts I presented. They attempt to belittle me as being "arrogant" and as having "fantasies". They tell us that everyone's opinions are deserving of respect. Opinions are worthy of respect only when supported by logical argument and facts. I clearly stated the facts and arguments supporting my opinion!! Some here may indeed have opinions in opposition to the one I stated. Someone may even have an opposing view that is valid. However, not one person has expressed such an opinion nor provided arguments and facts that disprove mine! On the subject of Washington's position on "gun control" and "justified revolution", the counter-arguments to my position are un-stated and therefore unknown. My "clarification" of Washington's position is the most valid, particularly when faced with NOTHING of substance in opposition to mine. IF anyone has an opposing point of view, he/she should state that view and provide logic and fact supporting it. Otherwise, their opinions are nothing but "wind"! "Wind" alone is not a valid position!

Before anyone retreats to the issue of mis-quoting our Founders, let me state again what I believe. Such behavior is despicable, and is worthy of nothing but contempt! This is the subject that should now be moot!

 

[Openmind]

Some here attack the messenger, rather than addressing my arguments and the facts I presented. They attempt to belittle me as being "arrogant" and as having "fantasies". They tell us that everyone's opinions are deserving of respect. Opinions are worthy of respect only when supported by logical argument and facts. I clearly stated the facts and arguments supporting my opinion!! Some here may indeed have opinions in opposition to the one I stated. Someone may even have an opposing view that is valid. However, not one person has expressed such an opinion nor provided arguments and facts that disprove mine! On the subject of Washington's position on "gun control" and "justified revolution", the counter-arguments to my position are un-stated and therefore unknown. My "clarification" of Washington's position is the most valid, particularly when faced with NOTHING of substance in opposition to mine. IF anyone has an opposing point of view, he/she should state that view and provide logic and fact supporting it. Otherwise, their opinions are nothing but "wind"! "Wind" alone is not a valid position!

Before anyone retreats to the issue of mis-quoting our Founders, let me state again what I believe. Such behavior is despicable, and is worthy of nothing but contempt! This is the subject that should now be moot!

Maybe it is because we have not found your "arguments" to be valid in any way, but just the repeated assurance that, you alone, understand that the REAL intent of George Washington was not to be found in HIS words, but in the "translation" of his words by a person who chose to add skewed and untrue statements (supposedly made by the big man himself) in a false "quote" in order to fit the need of that person.

By defending such fallacy, you join in with this person who purposely destroy the historic quote made by George Washington, and thus shows a LACK OF RESPECT for our founder and for the Constitution.

If that person can do that to ONE quote, and gets praises for it, what would stop him/her to continue rewriting history by twisting many more quotes?

And, I have presented you with at least one reason (including a very specific and factual example in the Tim McVeigh case) that refutes the validity of your argument about "armed militia to protect us from our government).

But you prefer to ignore what you cannot refute, and you prefer to ignore what creates a cognitive dissonances with your own internal paradigm of what "should" be according to YOU, so. . .I think this discussion has run its course.

Keep on setting yoursel up as Washington's translator. . . And I will just ignore your opinions all together!

 

[Lagboltz]

The fact is that Christians should have qualms about celebrating Xmas

There is no evidence that a man called jesus christ was born on dec 25th 2012 years ago

The celebration the Christians hijacked is the pagan festival of Yule

They celebrate with pagan imagery which I'm guessing god doesn't like

That is when they aren't celebrating with gluttony and wanton consumerism

But I suppose at least Xmas shows how stupid Christians are

And hypocritical

And ignorant

And gullible

C'mon Dawkins, lighten up. As an atheist myself, I am not hypocritical, ignorant, nor gullible, I simply enjoy the Pagan holiday. Paganism can be fun, with all it's gluttony and consumerism. Don't worry about the Christian aspect of it; there is barely any left. We Pagan's have hijacked Christmas from the Christians.

 

[Openmind]

Cash, don't be disappointed in George! As I've remarked many times, America's progressive Democrats are wrong virtually 100% of the time. 011 32 476 20 88 15 it appears that one of our Conservative principles has been proven wrong, we will always discover that such "proof" presented against us is illusory

You are so funny! For someone who likes to claim that he has "lived and breathed statistics all his life,". You should know better than making such a ridiculous statement as that!

It is statistically impossible to be 100% wrong all the time! Duh!

 

[Openmind]

C'mon Dawkins, lighten up. As an atheist myself, I am not hypocritical, ignorant, nor gullible, I simply enjoy the Pagan holiday. Paganism can be fun, with all it's gluttony and consumerism. Don't worry about the Christian aspect of it; there is barely any left. We Pagan's have hijacked Christmas from the Christians.

I agree. I also agree with a earlier comment you made and I wanted to give you a "like" for it (not that I believe you care about such trivia. . . You seem to be strong and balanced enough in your own opinions and knowledge that others giving you "likes" are probably quaint and a little funny, rather than rewarding. . .) but I couldn't find that quote qgain.

It was that quote where you mentioned that Jesus Christ was a great prophet. Once again, I totally agree.

 

[Lagboltz]

I agree. I also agree with a earlier comment you made and I wanted to give you a "like" for it (not that I believe you care about such trivia. . . You seem to be strong and balanced enough in your own opinions and knowledge that others giving you "likes" are probably quaint and a little funny, rather than rewarding. . .) but I couldn't find that quote qgain.

It was that quote where you mentioned that Jesus Christ was a great prophet. Once again, I totally agree.

I forgot where that quote was, but I think you already gave it a like. It seems that you and I like each other's posts, but not many others do.

However, au contrare (pardon my French) your "likes" are appreciated, and rewarding.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

I forgot where that quote was, but I think you already gave it a like. It seems that you and I like each other's posts, but not many others do.

However, au contrare (pardon my French) your "likes" are appreciated, and rewarding.

I like them...I just don't often hit the like key lol...I can try to get them more for you guys

 

[Lagboltz]

I like them...I just don't often hit the like key lol...I can try to get them more for you guys

Thanks PFOS. We flaming liberal Communist Pagans who worship Stalin and Lenin more than George Washington need to stick together in this hotbed of moderates who idolize Limbaugh and Hannity.

 

[Openmind]

I like them...I just don't often hit the like key lol...I can try to get them more for you guys

That's really nice! But don't worry about it!

I stopped worrying about getting "rewards" when i left junior high school and started learning for the joy of learning, rather than to please my teachers!

 

[TheJPRD]

Maybe it is because we have not found your "arguments" to be valid in any way, but just the repeated assurance that, you alone, understand that the REAL intent of George Washington was not to be found in HIS words, but in the "translation" of his words by a person who chose to add skewed and untrue statements (supposedly made by the big man himself) in a false "quote" in order to fit the need of that person.

While the lady and her friends haven't found my "argument to be valid in any way", they provide NO counter-argument with supporting facts nor a sensible logic-trail. As with most all issues, liberals FEEL Conservatives are wrong, but they're incapable of logically counter-arguing the points we make.

By defending such fallacy, you join in with this person who purposely destroy the historic quote made by George Washington, and thus shows a LACK OF RESPECT for our founder and for the Constitution.

Please note that the lady's comments above are irrelevant to the points I was making. She accuses me of defending the person who mis-quoted Washington, an accusation that is false! By misrepresenting my position, she's no better than the person who misquoted Washington. I clearly stated that such misrepresentations and misquotes are wrong. Being incapable of addressing my remarks specifically, she reverts to a subject on which I agreed with her. She then adds to the personal attack on me rather than my position, by saying that I have a "Lack of respect for the founders". If there's been a lack of respect shown for the founders here, it's been shown by those who claim Washington's position was other than what I expressed but who fail to provide support. That's effectively putting words in the mouths of the founders through neglect.

And, I have presented you with at least one reason (including a very specific and factual example in the Tim McVeigh case) that refutes the validity of your argument about "armed militia to protect us from our government).

The link to Wikipedia provided by the lady indeed addresses McVeigh's crimes. However, when you review the contents of that linked page, you'll find NOTHING that "refutes the validity" of my argument!!! NOTHING! McVeigh murdered innocent citizens, many being women and children. Neither I nor Washington nor any person of honor who'd revolt against a tyrannical government would do so via the purposeful murders of innocents! McVeigh was a criminal, plain and simple, and his acts in no way "refute" the validity of my argument!

But you prefer to ignore what you cannot refute, and you prefer to ignore what creates a cognitive dissonances with your own internal paradigm of what "should" be according to YOU, so. . .I think this discussion has run its course.

The Lady asks me to refute an argument she hasn't made! She's stated no premise, nor has she provided any proof of what Washington thought or didn't think! Even we Conservatives can't refute an argument that hasn't been made! Liberals despise "certainty' when it's expressed by Conservatives and supported with facts and rationale. They are quick to "certainty" themselve, however, based on nothing but their feelings. Seeing as how the lady has provided NO argument in opposition to my position other than her accusations of my arrogance, my fantasies, and for having a lack of respect for the founders, this one-sided argument is probably over..... unless she or other liberals wish to continue their attacks on the messenger instead of proving that my message was wrong! In that case, I'll continue to point out their failures!

Keep on setting yourself up as Washington's translator. . . And I will just ignore your opinions all together!

Since you're apparently unwilling or incapable of addressing my argument specifically with anything other than personal accusations against me, you're already ignoring my opinions. I suspect we'll see no change in your tactics? You're simply making personal accusations, arguing on the sole bases of your personal feelings, and by changing the subject to one on which I agreed with you!

 

[TheJPRD]

You are so funny! For someone who likes to claim that he has "lived and breathed statistics all his life,". You should know better than making such a ridiculous statement as that! It is statistically impossible to be 100% wrong all the time! Duh!

Duh, I'm a funny guy! Anytime you'd like to challenge my statistical skills, please feel free to do so. To this point, I've seen nothing here that would convince an intelligent person that I'm statistically unskilled. It's not 100% impossible for a person to be wrong 100% of the time, so it's not 100% "ridiculous" ; note the new personal attack on the messenger by saying that he's ridiculous??? I believe I used the expression "virtually 100% of the time", meaning that it's not an absolute.

You may be thinking of the oft-stated "rule of thumb" that "Even a blind squirrel finds an occasional nut"? I'll stay alert to the possibility that you or one of your liberal cohorts may eventually find a nut. Didn't happen this time though!

 

[Lagboltz]

While the lady and her friends haven't found my "argument to be valid in any way", they provide NO counter-argument with supporting facts nor a sensible logic-trail. As with most all issues, liberals FEEL Conservatives are wrong, but they're incapable of logically counter-arguing the points we make.
.....
If there's been a lack of respect shown for the founders here, it's been shown by those who claim Washington's position was other than what I expressed but who fail to provide support. That's effectively putting words in the mouths of the founders through neglect.
....
Neither I nor Washington nor any person of honor who'd revolt against a tyrannical government would do so via the purposeful murders of innocents!
...

My gosh, I never saw such a bevy of belligerence toward the lady and her friends. I sit at my keyboard uncontrollably depressed because I put "words in the mouths of the founders through neglect". I simply didn't realize the JPRD was the portal to the founders thoughts. I mistakenly thought the founders themselves were. However, I am really enheartened that the JPRD or George Washington wouldn't blow up innocent women and children if or when they are in the mood to "revolt against a tyrannical government."

I really don't like being this satirical, but when a post starts going to never-never-land, this is the quickest way to respond.

 

[TheJPRD]

Conservatives, please note the leftist responses to my posts, and observe how they've once again avoided the issue by means of personal ridicule of the opponent and misdirection on the issues. It never ceases to amaze me that liberals can so readily adopt delusions of adequacy.

My gosh, I never saw such a bevy of belligerence toward the lady and her friends.

When the lady and her friends attempt to personally ridicule me and refuse to debate the issue about which I posted, I should assume they deserve my kudos??? Don't hold your breath. If you like examples of "belligerence", I suggest you review the "lady's" posts and your's in which you avoided the issues with accusations against me of "fantasy", "arrogance", and disrepect for the founders. Any belligerence you believe I've shown has been in direct response to the belligerence directed at me by the "civil" liberals here.

I sit at my keyboard uncontrollably depressed because I put "words in the mouths of the founders through neglect".

I have a strong sense that you'll lose no sleep due to depression. Should I have assumed that your silence on the issues I addressed to have been concurrence with my opinion?

I simply didn't realize the JPRD was the portal to the founders thoughts. I mistakenly thought the founders themselves were.

In this thread perhaps I am the "portal" to the founders' thoughts, since you and your liberal friends haven't even addressed their thoughts. You folks have behaved more like "stone walls" than "portals". You're once again using ridicule by implying that I'm arrogant. I stated my "arrogant" opinions WITH both logical argument, exact and corroborated quotes, and facts of history. You and your leftwing cohorts, on the other hand, responded with ridicule while presenting nothing to support an opposing view. It's far more arrogant to ridicule an opponent's position while stating NO position nor support of your own. I suggest that you behave humbly, for you have a LOT of reasons for doing so. I suppose "arrogance" can come easily to a Conservative when opposed by the liberal minds here. You're in way over your head.

I really don't like being this satirical, but when a post starts going to never-never-land, this is the quickest way to respond.

I haven't noticed any satire on your part. I saw nothing from you except ridicule directed toward me, as evidenced again by your "never-never land" comment. Such comments don't bother me in the least, for I'm my own toughest critic... when I deserve it. Happily I'm not you, or I'd be very depressed about my performance here!

 

[Gipper]

Conservatives, please note the leftist responses to my posts, and observe how they've once again avoided the issue by means of personal ridicule of the opponent and misdirection on the issues. It never ceases to amaze me that liberals can so readily adopt delusions of adequacy.



When the lady and her friends attempt to personally ridicule me and refuse to debate the issue about which I posted, I should assume they deserve my kudos??? Don't hold your breath. If you like examples of "belligerence", I suggest you review the "lady's" posts and your's in which you avoided the issues with accusations against me of "fantasy", "arrogance", and disrepect for the founders. Any belligerence you believe I've shown has been in direct response to the belligerence directed at me by the "civil" liberals here.



I have a strong sense that you'll lose no sleep due to depression. Should I have assumed that your silence on the issues I addressed to have been concurrence with my opinion?



In this thread perhaps I am the "portal" to the founders' thoughts, since you and your liberal friends haven't even addressed their thoughts. You folks have behaved more like "stone walls" than "portals". You're once again using ridicule by implying that I'm arrogant. I stated my "arrogant" opinions WITH both logical argument, exact and corroborated quotes, and facts of history. You and your leftwing cohorts, on the other hand, responded with ridicule while presenting nothing to support an opposing view. It's far more arrogant to ridicule an opponent's position while stating NO position nor support of your own. I suggest that you behave humbly, for you have a LOT of reasons for doing so. I suppose "arrogance" can come easily to a Conservative when opposed by the liberal minds here. You're in way over your head.



I haven't noticed any satire on your part. I saw nothing from you except ridicule directed toward me, as evidenced again by your "never-never land" comment. Such comments don't bother me in the least, for I'm my own toughest critic... when I deserve it. Happily I'm not you, or I'd be very depressed about my performance here!

You should not be surprised that liberals ignore your questions on the Constitution. As we well know, they do not believe in the Constitution. They think it means whatever they want it to mean. Hence our current situation in which, the rule of law is now rule by the ruling elite. And anyone who demands it be abided by, as it was intended by the Founders, is considered a fool, racist, sexist, homophobe, and a crazy extremist.....my how America has changed thanks to the progressives and the statists, who have turned it into a Kleptocratic police state....