God rest ye merry hypocrites

[flaja]

Islam is a recent phenomenon? According to this, it dates from the sixth century.

Human civilization dates to before 4000 BC. So, yea, Islam is a recent phenomenon. Judaism was fully developed by around 1500 BC (or by at least 1200 BC depending on the dates you use for Egyptian history). European and American sexual norms are more or less inherent to Mosaic Law. And if you were to ever bother to read the Old Testament you would know that the system I describe is far from what you have portrayed it as.

If you are going to have this kind of discussion, you really should learn some history.

 

[PLC1]

Either pay attention to what I am actually saying and stop trying to put words in my mouth, or stop wasting my time.

Oh, I've been paying attention to what you're posting. I just can't believe that anyone in this day and age would say that women have to be dependent on men for their financial well being. I thought that philosophy went out with the 19th. century.

If being dependent on a husband to be able to have a place to live and food on the table isn't tantamount to being chattel, I'm not sure what it is.

There are women on this forum, I'm sure. I'd like to hear what they have to say about your ideas.

 

[dogtowner]

Oh, I've been paying attention to what you're posting. I just can't believe that anyone in this day and age would say that women have to be dependent on men for their financial well being. I thought that philosophy went out with the 19th. century.

If being dependent on a husband to be able to have a place to live and food on the table isn't tantamount to being chattel, I'm not sure what it is.

There are women on this forum, I'm sure. I'd like to hear what they have to say about your ideas.

I think its pretty safe to say that, for good or ill, Ozzie and Harriette are gone for good.

 

[PLC1]

I think its pretty safe to say that, for good or ill, Ozzie and Harriette are gone for good.

Not if flaja has anything to say about it.

 

[ASPCA4EVER]

Oh, I've been paying attention to what you're posting. I just can't believe that anyone in this day and age would say that women have to be dependent on men for their financial well being. I thought that philosophy went out with the 19th. century.

If being dependent on a husband to be able to have a place to live and food on the table isn't tantamount to being chattel, I'm not sure what it is.

There are women on this forum, I'm sure. I'd like to hear what they have to say about your ideas.

Oh, tried and failed that simple little 'open discussion thing'; back when this right-winged nut job opened the topic of "There Once Was A Time In America"...take a real slow read down that thread and you'll fully understand the MINDSET and utter verbal confusion that this Flaja leads the reader into the 'Alice In Wonderland' rabbit hole and then fragments the POINT INTO A THOUSAND LITTLE PIECES all due to his inability to stay on 1 POINT...{hell any POINT} it's a futile endeavor and he gets frustrated and then attacks your child-rearing techniques {all made up in his head}.

So there would be no way, no way in hell that I {female gendered author} would engage this hysteria driven fool into a discussion about anything to do with women/divorce/children...he seems more interested in PORN

 

[dogtowner]

Not if flaja has anything to say about it.

Change is the only constant, he has no say, nor do you and I.

Grow, adapt or die.

Maintain your principles but adapt.

 

[top gun]

No fault divorce means nobody has to make a lifetime commitment, thus you need not bother to take marriage seriously so you are encouraged to enter a marriage expecting it to fail. The ease of divorce and the lack of any criminal penalties for adultery make adultery and divorce self-fulfilling prophecies.

OMG let's track this medieval logic.

You not only want a gun held to everybody's head that they must be married to have sex.

After marriage even if abused they have to just hang in there and take it.

And you see the great virtue of putting people in jail or taking their possessions for having an affair!

Had you posted longer I'm sure the guillotine & burning at the stake would be in there too.

You were born about 2 or 3 hundred years too late my ancient thinking friend!

 

[flaja]

If being dependent on a husband to be able to have a place to live and food on the table isn't tantamount to being chattel, I'm not sure what it is.

By your definition children are chattel since they are dependent on adults for a place to live and food to eat.

The societal model I want to return to requires an even trade between men and women for the benefit of society. This model insures equality between men and women because it makes them mutually dependent on the other.

 

[flaja]

After marriage even if abused they have to just hang in there and take it.

When did I say that a marriage that has abuse of any kind must be maintained? Quote me when and where I said this. I have no problem with getting a divorce when either party to the marriage is at fault, but I do have a problem with any divorce that happens just for the sake of convenience.

 

[PLC1]

By your definition children are chattel since they are dependent on adults for a place to live and food to eat.

The societal model I want to return to requires an even trade between men and women for the benefit of society. This model insures equality between men and women because it makes them mutually dependent on the other.

Yes, men are dependent on women for sex, and women are dependent on men for money. It seems to me that I've heard of such an arrangement before, now where was that? Mustang... something like that.

 

[flaja]

Yes, men are dependent on women for sex, and women are dependent on men for money. It seems to me that I've heard of such an arrangement before, now where was that? Mustang... something like that.

Get real. Whoredom requires no lifetime commitment on either party's part and society seldom gets any children out of it- let alone children that are reared in a manner that is beneficial for society.

 

[PLC1]

Get real. Whoredom requires no lifetime commitment on either party's part and society seldom gets any children out of it- let alone children that are reared in a manner that is beneficial for society.

Now we're down to what is really needed: A lifetime commitment. Parents have to be committed to each other, and, even more importantly, to their children, in order to have families that can be the necessary bedrock of our society. Now, if a woman is afraid to leave an abusive husband because she has no other war to feed herself and her (their) children, that is not the same as a lifetime commitment, nor is such an arrangement likely to produce children who will become an asset to society. What you seem to be advocating is an attempt to coerce people into doing what we all know must be done in order to have a functioning society, but can such a thing be forced?

 

[flaja]

Now we're down to what is really needed: A lifetime commitment. Parents have to be committed to each other, and, even more importantly, to their children, in order to have families that can be the necessary bedrock of our society. Now, if a woman is afraid to leave an abusive husband because she has no other war to feed herself and her (their) children, that is not the same as a lifetime commitment, nor is such an arrangement likely to produce children who will become an asset to society. What you seem to be advocating is an attempt to coerce people into doing what we all know must be done in order to have a functioning society, but can such a thing be forced?

It pretty much was forced until the Sexual Revolution of the 1960s.

It used to be that if an unmarried man impregnated an unmarried woman her father would see to it that they were married. Now we give unwed mothers welfare and allow them to repeat the process.

It used to be that we had civil laws against adultery, but we seldom had to enforce them because an adulterer was at risk for bodily harm at the hands of their spouse while they were shunned by society. Now we just elect them to public office.

 

[flaja]

My mother was pregnant with me before she was 18. My parents divorced when I was 4 years old. My mother didn’t think enough of me to even ask for child support and she never bothered to collect the child support that the judge ordered my old man to pay anyway. For most of my life my mother worked 50-60 hours a week as a cashier and/or bookkeeper supposedly to keep us out of poverty, but I have nothing to show for her efforts. I have lost count of how many times I have heard her tell total strangers that she learns from her mistakes- one husband, one child.

My father slept around before the divorce; my mother did so afterwards.

The last birthday present I got from dear old dad was when I turned 6 and the last Christmas present from him came when I was only 8. I have had no contact with my father since the summer of 1983. I am a product of the broken system and no one can convince me that the system we once had had enough faults to justify not returning to it. I want an Ozzie and Harriet world because the alternative is a total fiasco as far as I am concerned and any lib that complains about what I want can go to Hell.

 

[ASPCA4EVER]

Flaja Said: I want an Ozzie and Harriet world because the alternative is a total fiasco as far as I am concerned and any lib that complains about what I want can go to Hell.

Well, now that story is really sad {probably like a large majority of America} but if you keep longing/wishing/hoping for the 'NON REALITY OF THE WALTONS/Ozzie & Harriet' then you'll always be horribly disappointed...your reality isn't for every one and trying to force the remaining American into your 'NON-REALITY' isn't right either.

Everyone has a "STORY"...we just all don't carry it around like a 150# backpack and purge it for one and all to hear!

Life is exactly what YOU MAKE IT...where you see fiasco I see humans doing what humans DO...surviving and enjoying the struggle and the self satisfaction that this provides them!