One Question on Healthcare

[The Scotsman]

In the UK everyone has healthcare that is free at the point of use.

............and in some cases pretty cruddy at the point of consumption....its kindda like a demented aunt that comes to christmas dinner every year; you know that she's totally batty, deposited in a wing chair and left dribbling in a corner and although she's on her last legs your mother still insists that you pretend she's cooking on gas and that everythings really okay! But unfortunately it ain't and like the NHS in ther UK public health and universal healthcare in the US will also become a political football.........welcome to our world.

 

[GenSeneca]

............and pretty cruddy at the point of consumption....its kindda like a demented aunt that comes to christmas dinner every year; you know that she's totally batty, dribbling in the corner and on her last legs but your mother insists that you pretend that everythings okay! The problem with the UK NHS is more to do with the way its organised and the fact that its run by the Government rather than those poor sods that have to try and work in it...........anyway carry on!

Scotsman,

Are you suggesting that government involvement hasn't "streamlined" the health care system in your country to the point where it is the epitome of efficiency?

 

[OldTrapper]

In the UK everyone has healthcare that is free at the point of use.

Your idea that people just choose not to have health insurance is embarrassing.

If people are poor they are not going to have health insurance as a priority.

Capiche?

And it is a fact that 40% of Americans do not have health insurance.

And yes that is 120 million people.

And that is not right.

Why not prove just ONE thing of all the BS you posted here? Just one.

The poor have Medicaid, capiche?

The young do not feel they need health insurance, so they do not buy it, capiche?

England has a serious problem with their system, and it is bankrupting the country. Aside from that, if you are taken to the hospital in an ambulance you may sit in the ambulance for up to 3 hours waiting treatment. That is the law, capiche?

Even the highest estimate of uninsured in the US is 46 million, and that is counting the illegals, and the ones that do not want to buy it, capiche?

If you doubt it, prove it.

 

[rationalist]

You think the US is not running out of oil.

No wonder you think that the above is right.

The UK is not being bankrupted by the NHS which it has had since the late 1940s. It is being bankrupted by what the conservative bankers in the US did.

And how ofen are you in an ambluance in the UK?

And in the UK if you get ill you will get treatment not left at the roadside or bankrupted because you don't have insurance.

You shouldn't believe everything you hear on Fox Views when they are speaking against healthcare reform.

Mind you, Fox tells you what to think about everything else so I guess there is no point hoping you might come to a conclusion on your own.

Oh and BTW I see you are back pedaling on the 40% point now.

Are you going to church tomorrow to say some hypocritical crap about showing love to your fellow man?

 

[OldTrapper]

You think the US is not running out of oil.

No wonder you think that the above is right.

The UK is not being bankrupted by the NHS which it has had since the late 1940s. It is being bankrupted by what the conservative bankers in the US did.

And how ofen are you in an ambluance in the UK?

And in the UK if you get ill you will get treatment not left at the roadside or bankrupted because you don't have insurance.

You shouldn't believe everything you hear on Fox Views when they are speaking against healthcare reform.

Mind you, Fox tells you what to think about everything else so I guess there is no point hoping you might come to a conclusion on your own.

Oh and BTW I see you are back pedaling on the 40% point now.

Are you going to church tomorrow to say some hypocritical crap about showing love to your fellow man?

So, no proof, just your BS.

Where did I back off the 40% number? I said that 40% were dependent on the government, not that 40% were uninsured. That was your number.

Conservatives give far more of their money, and time, to help those in need then people like you do. In your world "compassion" is forcing others to pay for your whims so you don't have to do so.

So, you lie as usual, and again refuse to provide proof for your idiocies, as usual.

 

[rationalist]

Have you learned any Chinese yet old man?

You remind me of those Japanese soldiers in the jungle thinking the war was still going on 40 years after it had ended.

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

Not to be too far off topic, however, have you noticed how the costs of food, lumber, etc., are all going up?

Seems to me that the corporate bosses in all industries are trying to get as much as they can while they can.

Of course they are, we have a greed-based system: charge all the market will bear.

 

[The Scotsman]

Are you suggesting that government involvement hasn't "streamlined" the health care system in your country to the point where it is the epitome of efficiency?

..........yup! Kindda the opposite actually but I think you know that already......

 

[The Scotsman]

England has a serious problem with their system, and it is bankrupting the country.

hmmmm........not quite. This is why Gensen's question needs to be reframed somewhat because all that happens is that spending goes through cyclical change depending upon the state of the country's finances and the funding avaliable. A public heath system will absorb any and all cash offered to it irrespective of wether it needs it or not. If you have a budget that can only offer an aspirin, well then, that's what you're gunna get, alternatively if the money's avaliable so that everyone gets an annual brainscan then you'll get it.......up until the cash runs out.

This is what's happens in the UK to some extent - we've had it "good" for the last decade, all the windows have been washed and the wards have got toilet paper but now its talk of cuts again.............

 

[GenSeneca]

Of course they are, we have a greed-based system: charge all the market will bear.

Supply and Demand, these set prices in a Free Market. Are you under the impression that there is an unlimited supply of Health Care?

 

[OldTrapper]

hmmmm........not quite. This is why Gensen's question needs to be reframed somewhat because all that happens is that spending goes through cyclical change depending upon the state of the country's finances and the funding avaliable. A public heath system will absorb any and all cash offered to it irrespective of wether it needs it or not. If you have a budget that can only offer an aspirin, well then, that's what you're gunna get, alternatively if the money's avaliable so that everyone gets an annual brainscan then you'll get it.......up until the cash runs out.

This is what's happens in the UK to some extent - we've had it "good" for the last decade, all the windows have been washed and the wards have got toilet paper but now its talk of cuts again.............

If the country is not going bankrupt it would not have to cut things like toilet paper.

Now, I know it is true in British Columbia, and other parts of Canada, as well as France, and most countries with single payer programs, that even though it is technically against the law more private clinics are being built, and the government is encouraging the use of them since the State hospitals, and clinics, are filled beyond capacity.

Similarly, in Britain they had such an overflow of patients that they had to pass a law requiring that no one could wait for more then three hours in an emergeancy room to get service, so now they make them wait in ambulances till there is room in the emergeancy room. Thus their wait for emergeancy service could be as long as 6 hours whereas it is 45 minutes in the US.

Now, we could get into how single payer countries are requiring those who can afford to do so to buy private insurance.

Single payer just can't work, and it has already been demonstrated here in the States that as more government money is spent on healthcare the cost of priovate insurance will become too expensive for the average person to afford, thus we will have a two group system where only the wealthiest of the wealthy can afford insurance, and they will inevitably get the best care, and we will be right back where we are now.

 

[GenSeneca]

This is why Gensen's question needs to be reframed somewhat because all that happens is that spending goes through cyclical change depending upon the state of the country's finances and the funding avaliable.

I can make, and have made, the case for Free Markets lowering the cost of providing health care. None of the Big-Government-Lovers have been capable of making a similar case for how government interventions could lower the costs of providing care.

 

[OldTrapper]

Have you learned any Chinese yet old man?

You remind me of those Japanese soldiers in the jungle thinking the war was still going on 40 years after it had ended.

You remind me of a kid I knew in grade school that had to take the 8th. grade over 4 times before the school just passed him on. He never did graduate HS.

BTW, have you learned how to prove any of your BS yet?

Well, obviously not.

 

[GenSeneca]

Single payer just can't work, and it has already been demonstrated here in the States that as more government money is spent on healthcare the cost of priovate insurance will become too expensive for the average person to afford, thus we will have a two group system where only the wealthiest of the wealthy can afford insurance, and they will inevitably get the best care, and we will be right back where we are now.

And if such an eventually should take place here in America, the Mare's of the country will moan and wail about the inequity, complain about the superior treatment given to the wealthy as a result of the failed system they fought tooth and nail to get implemented.

And when the state of health care in America is worse under their system then it is now, they will not demand that we return to market based health care... They will demand that the wealthy be given the same horrible health care as everyone else... to make things fair... like they are in Cuba.

 

[OldTrapper]

Of course they are, we have a greed-based system: charge all the market will bear.

Glad to hear it wasn't just me. I was beginning to think that most people thought it was just the greedy insurance compnaies, big oil, and the banks.