One Question on Healthcare

[Diamond]

My point is that certain essential services should be provided by the government to ensure they are available to all affordably.

People's health should not be something that should is left to those seeking to maximise profits.

Why should the government decide what service is best and not the consumers?

 

[rationalist]

Because they know nothing about healthcare and many of them are very poor and often have to decide between say food and health which is just wrong

 

[Diamond]

Because they know nothing about healthcare and many of them are very poor and often have to decide between say food and health which is just wrong

Most definitely agree with you on the last part of the post. I disagree on the first part of your post, I do think consumers in health care has a lot of knowledge and I think there should be a competition between different private companies and the public sector, and then the consumers can choose for themselves what service they find best. The power of the consumers should always be a priority, and this is where competition becomes a part of the greater picture. Then the public and private service needs to do its best to keep their consumers.

 

[rationalist]

The public know next to nothing about healthcare which is why doctors go to university for years to learn about it.

Companies are corrupt and every $ of profit is a $ that could be ploughed back into actual care.

 

[Diamond]

The public know next to nothing about healthcare which is why doctors go to university for years to learn about it.

Companies are corrupt and every $ of profit is a $ that could be ploughed back into actual care.

Of course, if we're speaking about the knowledge doctors have, that's a far different type of knowledge. The knowledge I was speaking of was the knowledge of service and the knowledge of how they operate within the health care.

But then you're back to square one, the government can be equally corrupt. So why is the government so much more trustworthy than private companies?

 

[rationalist]

It is more accountable and changeable

 

[Diamond]

It is more accountable and changeable

My impression has been the opposite. When the government receives no competition they become ineffective. They don't have to please the consumers, because they don't have anything to win or lose.

 

[rationalist]

The government is also the only body that can offer healthcare that is free at the point of usage.

In a civilised society, health, water, electricity, education etc should not be down to the individual's ability to pay.

 

[Diamond]

The government is also the only body that can offer healthcare that is free at the point of usage.

And the private companies can also be financed by the government so the bill for a treatment of a patient will be sent to the state instead of the consumer.

In a civilised society, health, water, electricity, education etc should not be down to the individual's ability to pay.

I disagree. Wealthy people who can afford to finance their way should pay for what they use. And then people who can't finance what they use, should receive help from the state. This reduces government spending, which is very good.

 

[rationalist]

Wealthy people should pay through a progressive taxation system

 

[Diamond]

Wealthy people should pay through a progressive taxation system

Why? Private companies are mostly owned by people who can be defined as wealthy. When you increase taxes on the wealthy, they will have a hard time keeping their business going, and a further consequence of that will be less job creation.

 

[rationalist]

You were doing OK until you made that point.

Most wealthy got their wealth from foul means rather than fair and they continue to tilt the table in their favour.

Progressive taxation just levels the playing field.

 

[Diamond]

You were doing OK until you made that point.

Most wealthy got their wealth from foul means rather than fair and they continue to tilt the table in their favour.

Progressive taxation just levels the playing field.

But this is an accusation that can also be incorrect, yes there are most definitely people who play dirty, but then you also have people who are honest and run their business without anything to hide. If we tax these people, it won't be giving more opportunities to the less wealthy in society, they're chances will be minimized. Most people, rich and wealthy, have their jobs in the private sector, so it's utterly important to uphold it.

 

[rationalist]

Don't be silly.

People who want to have more money than others will always seek the opportunity even if they have to pay more tax. Do you nthink Bill Gates would not have sought $100Bn if $50Bn was going to be taken in tax???

He can't spend the extra $50Bn and even though he gives a lot away he will only do so to causes he likes and it won't be $50bn.

There is no evidence at all to support you claim and plenty to oppose it.

And if you read the Spirit Level you will see proof that although the US spends more on healthcare per capita than any other country it has the worst level of care per capita of any country in the developed world so free market healthcare is clearly not working in the US.

 

[Diamond]

Don't be silly.

People who want to have more money than others will always seek the opportunity even if they have to pay more tax. Do you nthink Bill Gates would not have sought $100Bn if $50Bn was going to be taken in tax???

I think we'd all love to receive more money, no doubt about it. But I don't think there's anything automatic about as soon as you become wealthy you also become a liar and a cheat.

He can't spend the extra $50Bn and even though he gives a lot away he will only do so to causes he likes and it won't be $50bn.

As long as his money is clean and self-earned, he shouldn't be standing and answering to anyone. He should be allowed to give it to the causes he himself likes, of course. Like all human beings would, I'd never give my money away to groups of socialists, simply because they oppose my beliefs. That's not really difficult to understand.

And if you read the Spirit Level you will see proof that although the US spends more on healthcare per capita than any other country it has the worst level of care per capita of any country in the developed world so free market healthcare is clearly not working in the US.

It's not free market health care in the US.