Mr. Shaman
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Re: "conservatives"; Quit Your WHINING About Health-Care!
Some of 'em are a little-more upset (about such comparisons), than that!
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Re: "conservatives"; Quit Your WHINING About Health-Care!
We lived in Brussels for a year and watched London news the whole time. They were always running nightmare stories about their healthcare system. It's just ridiculous that we'd even think about doing something similar.
Now my question: Ted Kennedy pushes a healthcare plan on us but Congress is exempt. If he were stuck with what he's trying to give us, he'd be dead right now because the proposed plan won't pay for expensive, experimental treatments that he's used to prolong his own life. He's entitled to that but we don't even get a choice? (And yes, the private insurance will die a quick death when no one else can join it.) How does he justify that? Why should the American people accept a health plan that Congress and Obama don't want for themselves?
We lived in Brussels for a year and watched London news the whole time. They were always running nightmare stories about their healthcare system. It's just ridiculous that we'd even think about doing something similar.
Now my question: Ted Kennedy pushes a healthcare plan on us but Congress is exempt. If he were stuck with what he's trying to give us, he'd be dead right now because the proposed plan won't pay for expensive, experimental treatments that he's used to prolong his own life. He's entitled to that but we don't even get a choice? (And yes, the private insurance will die a quick death when no one else can join it.) How does he justify that? Why should the American people accept a health plan that Congress and Obama don't want for themselves?
Re: "conservatives"; Quit Your WHINING About Health-Care!
The whole tactic by the Republicants is to see NOTHING gets done. They know our healthcare system is riddled with major problems of affordability and access. But if it cost anything to fix it........ they're out!
It's just like how they've been trying for years to dissolve Social Security & Medicare. If it costs money and helps Americans......... they're out!
Pretty much looking for new places to Nation Build and swelling the size and cost of our military so they can do that and trying to give taxpayer money to religious charities and anything anti-choice for women or something that only benefits their own state or district... is all they are up for.
But if it's something across the board that all Americans need or will need when they get old like Social Security, Medicare/Medicaid or health insurance they have their Republicant silver bullet catch all answer...
Well here, we'll let you have your own tax free savings account for that, now good luck now good luck with that!
The whole tactic by the Republicants is to see NOTHING gets done. They know our healthcare system is riddled with major problems of affordability and access. But if it cost anything to fix it........ they're out!
It's just like how they've been trying for years to dissolve Social Security & Medicare. If it costs money and helps Americans......... they're out!
Pretty much looking for new places to Nation Build and swelling the size and cost of our military so they can do that and trying to give taxpayer money to religious charities and anything anti-choice for women or something that only benefits their own state or district... is all they are up for.
But if it's something across the board that all Americans need or will need when they get old like Social Security, Medicare/Medicaid or health insurance they have their Republicant silver bullet catch all answer...
Well here, we'll let you have your own tax free savings account for that, now good luck now good luck with that!
TruthAboveAll
Well-Known Member
Re: "conservatives"; Quit Your WHINING About Health-Care!
Well, I'll be! A first here - there is a page in this thread that 10 of 11 posts are from members on my ignore list. Now, that's what I call light reading!
Of course, when I force myself, out of curiosity to go ahead and view some of them, it confirms the truth that when certain members start a "you pat my back and I'll pat yours" session, it degenerates into typical talking-point type accusations, name-calling and revisionism.
And now, I will continue my search for intelligent life on the internet... Not to say that there isn't ANY here...
Well, I'll be! A first here - there is a page in this thread that 10 of 11 posts are from members on my ignore list. Now, that's what I call light reading!
Of course, when I force myself, out of curiosity to go ahead and view some of them, it confirms the truth that when certain members start a "you pat my back and I'll pat yours" session, it degenerates into typical talking-point type accusations, name-calling and revisionism.
And now, I will continue my search for intelligent life on the internet... Not to say that there isn't ANY here...
The Scotsman
Well-Known Member
Re: "conservatives"; Quit Your WHINING About Health-Care!
So you think that the British NHS is the only healthcare system that offers an alternative to the US ststem? If you've spotted the flaw do you think that it may have dawned on others too? The British NHS was established decades ago for a different population and due to its political sensetivity its is used as a political football. The issue with the NHS is politics and beaurocracy thus I'm pretty sure its not beyond the wit of man to get round such a simple issue.
So you think that the British NHS is the only healthcare system that offers an alternative to the US ststem? If you've spotted the flaw do you think that it may have dawned on others too? The British NHS was established decades ago for a different population and due to its political sensetivity its is used as a political football. The issue with the NHS is politics and beaurocracy thus I'm pretty sure its not beyond the wit of man to get round such a simple issue.
Re: "conservatives"; Quit Your WHINING About Health-Care!
Good point Scotsman.
That's the whole Red Herring the Republicants are handing out to try and delay any progress toward addressing real undeniable problems with the US healthcare system.
They pick out isolated cases (like there aren't just as bad insurance denial isolated cases, let alone the fact millions have NO COVERAGE AT ALL!) and then say...
Our new US system has to be just exactly like Canada's or England's or whatever.
No it doesn't. Our system can and will be set up quite a bit differently than either one of those systems.
Good point Scotsman.
That's the whole Red Herring the Republicants are handing out to try and delay any progress toward addressing real undeniable problems with the US healthcare system.
They pick out isolated cases (like there aren't just as bad insurance denial isolated cases, let alone the fact millions have NO COVERAGE AT ALL!) and then say...
Our new US system has to be just exactly like Canada's or England's or whatever.
No it doesn't. Our system can and will be set up quite a bit differently than either one of those systems.
Pandora
Well-Known Member
Re: "conservatives"; Quit Your WHINING About Health-Care!
Today I was listening to some stuff on the health care bill, strange stuff like once this is implemented your insurance can not drop you (great thing) but if you leave your job and go to another job you can not get on their health care plan you have to take the government option. I honestly do not know if this is true or not, I am not in a position to check it out right now. But those are the things I worry about.
Congress doesn’t even read this stuff before they pass it, who knows what will be in the final health care bill.
I am glad you see that my heart is in the right place, I never thought I would read those words from you when I first came here
In the end its really a non issue for me personally, I hate doctors and wont go but I worry for my older sister who does have a whole lot of health issues and both of my parents also.
Doing something (if it’s the wrong thing) is really worse than doing nothing. I would rather see a few ideas (in detail) pitched to the public and let us decide via a national vote. obama and Congress will leave one day but this health care will be with us forever. We should decide not them.
Hi Pan
I want you to know I think your heart is in the right place. And sure I think Republicans know our healthcare system has major problems.
But this is the thing. They'll never do ANYTHING about it. The only thing they'll ever do is repeat the old lines... give companies more tax breaks to offer more insurance coverage & have people get special non-taxed health insurance savings accounts. That's all you'll ever hear and that won't do anything to help the major healthcare gaps.
We have 2 wars going on and Bush & the Republicants took us from a surplus to a huge debt no matter what President Obama does. The fact is we need tax revenue bad right now and the Republicants solution to healthcare is cut corporate taxes even more.
If you really look into it the type of plan President Obama is looking for is a hybrid plan of private with a Universal safety net not what they have in Canada (which I'm tellin' ya the people I know up there like pretty darn well, and really like when they find out we can be sued and lose everything just for medical bills down here).
When this started I would have been fine with just about any positive change. I would have been fine with keeping the private part like it is and letting families without healthcare buy into the Medicaid system on the cheap... say up to $80 per month per person or up to $150 a month per family.
But just doing nothing was all that ever happend... delay, delay, delay.
So we now have someone serious about doing something when something is not working as is is. You may not agree with anything President Obama does but I'm sure you do at least see how I'm getting to my conclusion that doing nothing is not an option.
take care...
Today I was listening to some stuff on the health care bill, strange stuff like once this is implemented your insurance can not drop you (great thing) but if you leave your job and go to another job you can not get on their health care plan you have to take the government option. I honestly do not know if this is true or not, I am not in a position to check it out right now. But those are the things I worry about.
Congress doesn’t even read this stuff before they pass it, who knows what will be in the final health care bill.
I am glad you see that my heart is in the right place, I never thought I would read those words from you when I first came here
In the end its really a non issue for me personally, I hate doctors and wont go but I worry for my older sister who does have a whole lot of health issues and both of my parents also.
Doing something (if it’s the wrong thing) is really worse than doing nothing. I would rather see a few ideas (in detail) pitched to the public and let us decide via a national vote. obama and Congress will leave one day but this health care will be with us forever. We should decide not them.
GenSeneca
Well-Known Member
Re: "conservatives"; Quit Your WHINING About Health-Care!
No facts, no values, no principles, no standards, no morals, no ethics.... You guys are sure full of "No" for a group that claims Republicans are the party of "No"....
A hostile government takeover of the private insurance industry is not "Progress", its Progressive Socialism.
No facts, no values, no principles, no standards, no morals, no ethics.... You guys are sure full of "No" for a group that claims Republicans are the party of "No"....
A hostile government takeover of the private insurance industry is not "Progress", its Progressive Socialism.
Andy
Well-Known Member
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- 3,497
Re: "conservatives"; Quit Your WHINING About Health-Care!
Clue phone... there really is only two systems out there. They may come in various forms and flavors, but there is only TWO basic concepts.
One: Government supplies health care. They might do it directly with government employed doctors at government hospitals. Or they might do it indirectly with by giving checks to a private hospital or doctor. (socialism)
Two: The people pay for their own health care with money they earned. (capitalism)
That's it. There's only two methods. Now, generally speaking, I can look at a dozen different socialized systems, and in each and every case they have the same basic problems.
So... no we don't think UK NHS is the only system out there. But it doesn't matter. All the other systems suffer the same problems. You think only NHS suffers from politics and bureaucracy? You think NHS is the only socialized care system used as a political foot ball? They are ALL like that.
Medicare and Medicaid in the US is suffering the exact same problems here, except it's limited to the 12.3% that uses Medicare and Medicaid. The have a shortage of doctors willing to accept both. It suffers from politics and bureaucracy. Politicians routinely use it as a political foot ball.
In fact the only thing keeping mediscare afloat is the private system which subsidizes the public one, and ironically the current plans will dismantle the private system.
Clue phone... there really is only two systems out there. They may come in various forms and flavors, but there is only TWO basic concepts.
One: Government supplies health care. They might do it directly with government employed doctors at government hospitals. Or they might do it indirectly with by giving checks to a private hospital or doctor. (socialism)
Two: The people pay for their own health care with money they earned. (capitalism)
That's it. There's only two methods. Now, generally speaking, I can look at a dozen different socialized systems, and in each and every case they have the same basic problems.
So... no we don't think UK NHS is the only system out there. But it doesn't matter. All the other systems suffer the same problems. You think only NHS suffers from politics and bureaucracy? You think NHS is the only socialized care system used as a political foot ball? They are ALL like that.
Medicare and Medicaid in the US is suffering the exact same problems here, except it's limited to the 12.3% that uses Medicare and Medicaid. The have a shortage of doctors willing to accept both. It suffers from politics and bureaucracy. Politicians routinely use it as a political foot ball.
In fact the only thing keeping mediscare afloat is the private system which subsidizes the public one, and ironically the current plans will dismantle the private system.
Re: "conservatives"; Quit Your WHINING About Health-Care!
Hi Pan
That's just more of the same old tired we can't do nothing let's talk about it some more stall tactics to prevent any change at all that the Republicants have used for the past 50 years while insurance premiums skyrocketed, insurance companies denied more and more things and got rich doing it.
And what would be wrong with if you don't have employer healthcare you take the government option... the alternative is you have NOTHING!
The time is now. It's the right thing to do. And we're going to get something done this time not just talk it to death. At least that's the plan...
Today I was listening to some stuff on the health care bill, strange stuff like once this is implemented your insurance can not drop you (great thing) but if you leave your job and go to another job you can not get on their health care plan you have to take the government option. I honestly do not know if this is true or not, I am not in a position to check it out right now. But those are the things I worry about.
Congress doesn’t even read this stuff before they pass it, who knows what will be in the final health care bill.
I am glad you see that my heart is in the right place, I never thought I would read those words from you when I first came here
In the end its really a non issue for me personally, I hate doctors and wont go but I worry for my older sister who does have a whole lot of health issues and both of my parents also.
Doing something (if it’s the wrong thing) is really worse than doing nothing. I would rather see a few ideas (in detail) pitched to the public and let us decide via a national vote. obama and Congress will leave one day but this health care will be with us forever. We should decide not them.
Hi Pan
That's just more of the same old tired we can't do nothing let's talk about it some more stall tactics to prevent any change at all that the Republicants have used for the past 50 years while insurance premiums skyrocketed, insurance companies denied more and more things and got rich doing it.
And what would be wrong with if you don't have employer healthcare you take the government option... the alternative is you have NOTHING!
The time is now. It's the right thing to do. And we're going to get something done this time not just talk it to death. At least that's the plan...
Re: "conservatives"; Quit Your WHINING About Health-Care!
If I were you I'd be more worried about No Executive... No House... No Senate... looking forward to less Judiciary.
You guys have taked it to death for 50 years... that is when you had the time between trying to kill off Social Security and Medicare.
We're going to act for the betterment of the American people now... not just talk about it.
91 percent of Canadians like their health care system
Chuck Sweeny
July 1st, 2008
U.S. politicians — Republican variety — love to disparage Canada’s national health care system with the fact-free observation that Canadians come here to get vital operations so they don’t have to wait in line in Canada.
Because I’m a frequent visitor to Canada, and I actually talk to real people there, I’ve replied to these Republicans that Canadians I’ve talked to say they wouldn’t trade their health care for anything else, especially America’s roll-of-the-dice nonsystem of private insurance — “maybe we’ll cover you for that, maybe we won’t.”
Now I have data to back up these informal conversations: In a new, bi-national opinion poll done by Canada’s CTV television network and the national newspaper Globe & Mail, 91 percent of Canadians said they prefered their national health care system over America’s pseudo-private system.
Ninety-One percent. In the world of scientific opinion polling, that’s about as unanimous as you ever get.
Also, 45 percent of Americans surveyed prefered Canada’s system, and 42 percent prefered to stick with what we’ve got.
The poll also showed that more Canadians, 26 percent, like Barack Obama better than their own leader. Prime Minister Stephen Harper got 21 percent. Harper, a Conservative, is running a minority government in a country that is decidedly more liberal than the U.S.
It’s July 1. Happy Canada Day.
Entry Filed under: Canada Poll
---------------------------------------------
In fact, you’re more likely to find Americans hitting up Mexico for its dramatically cheaper health care:
Driven by rising health care costs at home, nearly 1 million Californians cross the border each year to seek medical care in Mexico, according a new paper by UCLA researchers and colleagues published today in the journal Medical Care.
An estimated 952,000 California adults sought medical, dental or prescription services in Mexico annually.
If I were you I'd be more worried about No Executive... No House... No Senate... looking forward to less Judiciary.
You guys have taked it to death for 50 years... that is when you had the time between trying to kill off Social Security and Medicare.
We're going to act for the betterment of the American people now... not just talk about it.
91 percent of Canadians like their health care system
Chuck Sweeny
July 1st, 2008
U.S. politicians — Republican variety — love to disparage Canada’s national health care system with the fact-free observation that Canadians come here to get vital operations so they don’t have to wait in line in Canada.
Because I’m a frequent visitor to Canada, and I actually talk to real people there, I’ve replied to these Republicans that Canadians I’ve talked to say they wouldn’t trade their health care for anything else, especially America’s roll-of-the-dice nonsystem of private insurance — “maybe we’ll cover you for that, maybe we won’t.”
Now I have data to back up these informal conversations: In a new, bi-national opinion poll done by Canada’s CTV television network and the national newspaper Globe & Mail, 91 percent of Canadians said they prefered their national health care system over America’s pseudo-private system.
Ninety-One percent. In the world of scientific opinion polling, that’s about as unanimous as you ever get.
Also, 45 percent of Americans surveyed prefered Canada’s system, and 42 percent prefered to stick with what we’ve got.
The poll also showed that more Canadians, 26 percent, like Barack Obama better than their own leader. Prime Minister Stephen Harper got 21 percent. Harper, a Conservative, is running a minority government in a country that is decidedly more liberal than the U.S.
It’s July 1. Happy Canada Day.
Entry Filed under: Canada Poll
---------------------------------------------
In fact, you’re more likely to find Americans hitting up Mexico for its dramatically cheaper health care:
Driven by rising health care costs at home, nearly 1 million Californians cross the border each year to seek medical care in Mexico, according a new paper by UCLA researchers and colleagues published today in the journal Medical Care.
An estimated 952,000 California adults sought medical, dental or prescription services in Mexico annually.
Pandora
Well-Known Member
Re: "conservatives"; Quit Your WHINING About Health-Care!
So lets say I have avarage health care now. The plan goes through... I get lucky and get a job with great health care but because of the plan the company can not offer it to me, only existing employees and I am forced to take the government plan. when if the government kept out of it, I would have great health care.
I see a problem with that. You dont?
Hi Pan
That's just more of the same old tired we can't do nothing let's talk about it some more stall tactics to prevent any change at all that the Republicants have used for the past 50 years while insurance premiums skyrocketed, insurance companies denied more and more things and got rich doing it.
And what would be wrong with if you don't have employer healthcare you take the government option... the alternative is you have NOTHING!
The time is now. It's the right thing to do. And we're going to get something done this time not just talk it to death. At least that's the plan...
So lets say I have avarage health care now. The plan goes through... I get lucky and get a job with great health care but because of the plan the company can not offer it to me, only existing employees and I am forced to take the government plan. when if the government kept out of it, I would have great health care.
I see a problem with that. You dont?
GenSeneca
Well-Known Member
Re: "conservatives"; Quit Your WHINING About Health-Care!
I know how much you love "Moderates".... but maybe that's only the ones in the GOP.
Lets hear you blame this on the Republicans... Better yet, lets hear about how proud you are that your "big tent" party is filled with obstructionist "moderate" Democrats.
That's just more of the same old tired we can't do nothing let's talk about it some more stall tactics to prevent any change at all that the Republicants have used for the past 50 years while insurance premiums skyrocketed, insurance companies denied more and more things and got rich doing it.
And what would be wrong with if you don't have employer healthcare you take the government option... the alternative is you have NOTHING!
The time is now. It's the right thing to do. And we're going to get something done this time not just talk it to death. At least that's the plan...
I know how much you love "Moderates".... but maybe that's only the ones in the GOP.
Lets hear you blame this on the Republicans... Better yet, lets hear about how proud you are that your "big tent" party is filled with obstructionist "moderate" Democrats.
GenSeneca
Well-Known Member
Re: "conservatives"; Quit Your WHINING About Health-Care!
Oh, poor Top Gun... You still think I'm a Republican. You're confusion is cute in a navy blue sort of way.
If I were you I'd be more worried about No Executive... No House... No Senate... looking forward to less Judiciary.
You guys have taked it to death for 50 years... that is when you had the time between trying to kill off Social Security and Medicare.
Oh, poor Top Gun... You still think I'm a Republican. You're confusion is cute in a navy blue sort of way.
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Re: "conservatives"; Quit Your WHINING About Health-Care!
Hi Pan
That's not to happen. Employers can't pick and choose. They'll have to offer whatever plan they offer to everybody. That's all a big Red Herring created by the mega rich insurance lobby and put forward by the Republicants so they rake in the profits & campaign contributions and we stay stuck on stupid.
The system has serious problems. With a government option there would finally, FINALLY be some competition. They don't want competition. It's that simple.
Hi Pan
That's not to happen. Employers can't pick and choose. They'll have to offer whatever plan they offer to everybody. That's all a big Red Herring created by the mega rich insurance lobby and put forward by the Republicants so they rake in the profits & campaign contributions and we stay stuck on stupid.
The system has serious problems. With a government option there would finally, FINALLY be some competition. They don't want competition. It's that simple.
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