Why is so wrong to torture terrorists POWs?

BS

They've done it LOTS of times - Eg:

Daily Kos' BarbinMD: "Richard Cohen explains that while Barack Obama may have a lot of charisma, his character is in question because of his lack of experience. And apparently the only experience that could answer that character question is if he was tortured while a POW."

lots of times....and you post 1
 
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You're using the Old Testament to justify war? So do you also follow the other dictates of the Old Testament? Or are you just another cherry picking
Christian using the bits that you like? How about slavery, selling children, taking women as the spoils of war, raping the wives of vanquished enemies, raping virgins taken captive, etc.? All good? How about torture, can you find that in the Old Testament too or do you have a quote from Jesus to support that?

Matthew 5:17

Ecclesiastes 3:8
 
America doesn't torture... we're above that... or at least we were until the Bush/Cheney administration. The Geneva Convention and may other international agreements are at stake here.

We don't have to become terrorists to defeat terrorists.

We only put our captured at much greater danger of abuse all over the world if any and all enemies can say... What are you talking about America, you are well known for torture yourselves!

I fear your historical perspective is a bit,..lacking. We (Americans) haven't done anything during OIF or GWOT that we haven't done in previous wars. If anything, we've been a bit more cautious, and actually refrained in many cases during this conflict.
 
Matthew 5:17
Then I will take that as a "yes" for all the things in the Mosaic Law including, as I noted, slavery, selling children, raping virgins taken as the spoils of war, raping the wives of vanquished enemies, not mixing plants in fields or fibers in clothing, animal sacrifice, and of course purification of yourself if you accidentally touch a woman having her period.

Ecclesiastes 3:8
Yep, you're right, that's a quote by Jesus allowing torture. You are quite the Bible scholar.
 
Then I will take that as a "yes" for all the things in the Mosaic Law including, as I noted, slavery, selling children, raping virgins taken as the spoils of war, raping the wives of vanquished enemies, not mixing plants in fields or fibers in clothing, animal sacrifice, and of course purification of yourself if you accidentally touch a woman having her period.

Yep, you're right, that's a quote by Jesus allowing torture. You are quite the Bible scholar.

Yeah, whatever. I'll take any further commentary from you on the subject of religion as mindless prattle from one who of the "can't we all get along, EXCEPT FOR RELIGION" types. It's obvious you haven't even tried to understand religion, much less Christianity, and all you want to do is attack people of faith.

In simpler terms, you're a TROLL.
 
Yeah, whatever. I'll take any further commentary from you on the subject of religion as mindless prattle from one who of the "can't we all get along, EXCEPT FOR RELIGION" types. It's obvious you haven't even tried to understand religion, much less Christianity, and all you want to do is attack people of faith.

In simpler terms, you're a TROLL.
F**king Bible-beaters have been using their religion to hurt others and war amongst themselves for centuries. The Bible may have caused more suffering in the world than any other book. And it's a lie, anyone who has actually taken time to study the history of Christianity knows that it's a scam without historical basis of any sort.

I see what religious folks like you do with the teachings of Jesus, how you twist them and and use the really sick stuff in the Bible to justify violent insanity while ignoring the good things that are attributed to Jesus. Mark Twain said that the Bible was an apothecary, with things to make you sick or things to make you better and it was up to the individual to decide what to use out of it. You support violence and torture, you are a fear-monger, and I have not seen you post a single one of the good things that Jesus contributed to the sum of human knowledge.

The historical Jesus probably didn't exist, there's no evidence of His ministry or death or miracles, but that in no way invalidates the good things He's supposed to have said. It's too bad that you have chosen to use the bad things, the hurtful things from the apothecary and in essence ignore the good things, the gentle things, the difficult things that Jesus required of His followers. That makes you just another hypocritical rice-Christian.

It's okay if you call me names, I just consider the source. The indigenous Americans said you could judge a person by their enemies--after reading the cruel and stupid stuff you've posted I am happy to have you as an enemy, it's almost like having a personal endorsement.
 
Not sure what the Bible has to do with this thread...

The Bible is touted as being the touchstone for morality in our country, it's the reason cited for bashing gay people, it's cited as the basis for all our laws against murder, theft, rape, and the like. If we are going to discuss the rights and wrongs of torture why wouldn't we look to the Bible? Nearly 80% of the American people claim to believe that the Bible is the Word of God, but many of them are like Fed Farm and just cherry pick the book for things to justify their hates and fears. It's too bad really, there are some very good things in the Bible--too bad so few people have the intestinal fortitude to practice those things.
 
It's got nothing to do with it Mare, and you know it. You inserted faith into the discussion with your silly-assed commentary about no Christians having posted on the subject, ignoring the fact that I already had, and had pointed out that we're not doing anything to them that we don't do to our own troops as a part of their training.
 
It's only a soap opera to discuss torture as Feds practise the torture on Amerians already, in covert, though. Here is my story about high tech weapon murder and torture.

470. Strong EM wave radiation and February plot (3/3/07)

In last post, I said the Feds didn't take a break and is going on with new plot. I was right. There was another plot planned to take place in February 27.

In last post, I worried about they would sacrifice Prince Harry to justify a new war. I was right. They planned war by sacrifice of celebrities' lives.

Re: "Cheney Targeted in Afghan Blast
Associated Press | February 27, 2007

BAGRAM, Afghanistan - A suicide bomber killed and wounded some two dozen people outside the main U.S. military base in Afghanistan on Tuesday during a visit by Vice President Dick Cheney. The Taliban claimed responsibility and said Cheney was the target. "

http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,126678,00.html

In previous messages, I alleged there would be international financial crisis came with the terror attack. I was right. This time the Inside Group prepared a big fall on global stock market. On February 27, the China's stock market dropped 8,8%. Japan and US stock market lost more than 3% that day. So were Hongkong and other countries.(U.K., India, Australia.....) They all had a significant loss in stock index.

Cheney's trip to Afghanistan was unnecessary and unplanned.

Re: "US says Cheney wasn't target of Afghan attack.
By Griff Witte Washington Post

WASHINGTON - A purported Taliban spokesman asserted responsibility for a suicide bomb attack Tuesday at the main US air base in Afghanistan and said it was an attempt to assassinate Vice President Dick Cheney. But US officials disputed the claim, stating that Cheney's overnight stay at the sprawling Bagram Air Base had been unplanned and that he was well away from the blast."
(San Jose Mercury News 2/28/07)

Was Cheney well away from the blast?
He himself said "I heard a loud boom" than was moved promptly to a bomb shelter.

Is it true that Cheney wasn't target of Afghan attack?
How could the Taliban spokesman claim they targeted at Cheney? The claim came with the news of bombing. (see the above news right on the day of Feb. 27.) Obviously it was pre-prepared. Do you think the bombing happened at Bagram Air Base was a coincidence that Cheney happened to take an unplanned visit there?

Why US deny Cheney was not targeted one day later?
On Feb 27 the authority said the bombing proved Taliban infiltrated the intelligence. Do you believe Taliban has so remarkable ability? It only proves Al Qaida, as I always said, is a tool manipulated by US intelligence. They do whatever the intelligence want them to do. Cheney's unplanned visit may not be aware by high ranking US officials, how could Taliban knew it and prepared a bombing attack in a very short time? US denied that Cheney was not the target one day later because there were many flaws in this soured plot. A real investigation would have found the root of a plot of false flag attack. So they cover it up as a random attack coincide with Cheney's visit. Otherwise there will be an investigation on their own: the Secret Service, CIA, Pentagon. They will use the "Al Qaida infiltrate the intelligence" as a justification for the next assassination. There is still Prince Harry there.

I have personal experience that each time they planing a plot, the Feds always planned framed case or elimination on me. There is no exception in this February plot.

Feb.17 is Chinese New Year eve. My family member had a re-union dinner in San Francisco. I didn't go.
Then on Feb. 24, my parents and other family members and relatives came to my home, invited me for a dinner to a restaurant. I refused too. I know Feds used to frame an arrest in such occasion.
That night and the next night (Feb 25), there was a strong EM wave radiation shooting on me. I slept behind metal plate, the radiation was so strong that it penetrate the thin metal plates. I could feel uncomfortable, unusual feeling at my face when the radiation was applied on me. I was afraid I might be fatally hurt by this strong radiation that on Feb 26, I moved to sitting room and slept there. My bedroom shares the wall with neiborhood and I allege the strong radiation were from there. The sitting room is seperated from it with laundry room and heating furnace.

It was better after I moved the sleeping place. (though they still shoot the EM wave) Next day (Feb 27), I heard the Cheney case and stock market case. Normally, innocent people may have died after being shoot by this EM wave radiation the whole night. How could they know they must protect themselves by metal shield? I survived with my knowledge and experience. Feds must have killed many people with such a weapon. I am so grief and indignation with the people who were murdered by this fascist "law enforcement agency".

(see microwave killing in my thread in conspiracy section)
 
F**king Bible-beaters have been using their religion to hurt others and war amongst themselves for centuries. The Bible may have caused more suffering in the world than any other book. And it's a lie, anyone who has actually taken time to study the history of Christianity knows that it's a scam without historical basis of any sort.

Still insisting on being silly I see. Your assertions are as absurd as the CT'ers claiming that 9-11 was an inside job, or that "Bush lied and Soldiers died". There's simply no basis in fact in either of them.

You support violence and torture, you are a fear-monger, and I have not seen you post a single one of the good things that Jesus contributed to the sum of human knowledge.

Well, when someone starts a thread on the subject, I may very well have something to contribute along those lines, but as the topic of THIS thread is TORTURE, I'm doing my utmost to STAY ON TOPIC. Just remember, it was YOU who chose to interject religion into the discussion.

The historical Jesus probably didn't exist, there's no evidence of His ministry or death or miracles, but that in no way invalidates the good things He's supposed to have said.

Read your Josephus, he specifically mentions Jesus by name.

It's okay if you call me names, I just consider the source. The indigenous Americans said you could judge a person by their enemies--after reading the cruel and stupid stuff you've posted I am happy to have you as an enemy, it's almost like having a personal endorsement.

If you consider me an enemy, that is of YOUR choosing, not mine.
 
471. The death related to EM wave radiation (3/8/07)

I started to recognize it probably was the house that caused the Feds' persecution on me when someone suggested to exchange his house with mine in early 90s. (see #278 - #282)

Then in March, 2000, after I complained to US embassy in Thailand alleged that FBI manipulated bank practice of remittance, I found there was an attempt to frame me in drug case.(see: #37, 49, 50, 51)
I was in panic and had to seek political asylum from Thailand Foreign Ministry. It only intensified the persecution. So I left Thailand for Laos. Re: "About in early April, 2000, when I was still in panic mood of Thailand event, I read a news from a Chinese newspaper that FBI director Freeh would resign from his post, because FBI abused their power to a man whom bought a house which FBI wanted. It was a strange news. I had a strong feeling the article was for me (actually Freeh stayed in the post until one year later he resigned again when FBI signed a secret deal with China to frame a big drug case. see #61 - 64) It proved my early suspicion that the persecution was due to the house.

In July 2000, when I got back to my home in US, I checked the document in house deal. In it there is a death certificate of the former landlord. ( I took over the mortgage loan from the seller - a widow, but one of the joint borrower had died so they had to prove it with document) He works for US Navy when he was alive. He was in his 30s when He died.
The death was caused by:
immediate cause (A) Probable pulmonary embolus.
Due to. or as a consequence of (B) Thrombophlebitis of leg

I checked the dictionary and learned that former landlord died of clot formed in leg which then blocked the blood to lung. It proves my allegation that former landlord died of a covert murder - microwave killing. Though I don't know what was the motive to murder him, it's unusual he died so young. (in his 30s) The tactic of murder was a skill I am familiar to - microwave killing. (see #5. Microwave killing)
After hours of low dose of microwave radiation, the blood cell gradually died and formed clots. When the clots moved to lung and blocked the artery, the lung collapsed. When it moves to heart, a heart attack happens. When it moves to brain, then it's a stroke.

Why the clot originates from leg? I think the Feds used to install the killing device in engine room. It's easy to be installed there and hard to be discovered. (used to be guised as parts?) Foot to control the pedal is the nearest to the microwave source. Or they deliberately to shoot on people's leg because the foot is less sensitive than the head and hands. Victim is hard to feel it when the microwave is applied on the leg.

Quote, "Cheney treated for blood clot in his leg
POSTED: 5:37 p.m. EST, March 5, 2007
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Doctors found a blood clot in Vice President Dick Cheney's left leg Monday, Cheney's office said.
Doctors performed an ultrasound and found a deep venous thrombosis, or DVT.
Complications from DVT kill up to 200,000 people in the United States each year, but the clots can be easily treated through medication.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/03/05/cheney.health/index.html

On March 5, when the TV news reported Cheney's blood clot story, (local Chinese TV), I was surprised at the striking resemblance of the broadcaster's description about the blood clot with mine. She said the blood clot formed in leg. "When the clots moved to lung and blocked the artery, the lung collapsed. When it moves to heart, a heart attack happens. When it moves to brain, then it's a stroke." The only difference was she said doctors thought it was probably caused by lacking of movement after long air travel.

Was this the only long air travel Cheney took?
No, I think recently he at least took one to Riyad.to arrange an Iraqi civil war. There seemed no problem of blood clot then.

Was Air force No. 2 a small plane?
No, I think it was not as narrow as the normal economic seat commercial air line used to offer. I am sure it's much, much spacious then any first class cabinet.

Was time sensitive in this case.
Yes, Vice President Cheney was arranged an unplanned visit to Bagram Air Base in Afghanistan where he encountered a bombing. Will he suspect on that? What will intelligence do after their plot went soured?

Also it was at the ending of Libby's CIA leaking case. Libby said he was the sacrifice. Would it be better to have such an ending similar to Kenneth Lay's death in Enron case? The Libby verdict came one day after Cheney's clot story.
 
472. Radio frequency weapon that causes vomit (3/13/07)

Statement by
Lieutenant General Robert L. Schweitzer
U.S. Army (Retired)

before the
Joint Economic Committee
United States Congress

June 17, 1997
Radio Frequency Weapons and the Infrastructure

Low cost per engagement
All weather
Instantaneous engagement times
Simplified pointing and tracking
Possible to engage multiple targets
Deep magazines-simplified logistics (can "fire" or pulse as long as there is power in the generator)
Non-lethal to humans when properly adjusted
Well suited to covert operations because of lack of signature; deniability
Not able to detect attacks; silent when used without explosive devices

http://www.house.gov/jec/hearings/espionag/schweitz.htm

The radio Frequency weapons here are the one I referred as EM wave weapon. (Electro-magnetic wave).
Watch the last three advantages of that weapon General Schweitzer said. In fact, it becomes a lethal weapon the Feds frequently used to murder American people. Because it lacks of signature; being deniability; not able to detect attacks. I must add one more point, it is a preferable murder weapon because the death resembles to natural disease.

In normal life, many device works on EM-wave: radio broadcast; TV; microwave oven, mobile phone; radar..... There are different usage for different frequency EM wave. So was it when it used as a weapon.

To my experience, one imitates sleeping wave which can force people going to sleep. The other one is microwave killing device which create blood clot to develop the death like heart attack, stroke or lung collapse. Microwave radiation also cause Leukemia.

Here is another one used as a punishment. It caused the dizzy, nausea and vomit.
In later 1980s or early 1990s, (I don't remember the exact time), I had been sick several times. The uncomfortable feeling was so bad, but lasts very short time. It always ended with vomit. I didn't suspect anything else then.

It was until mid 1990s, when Reno (the Attorney General of Clinton era) had a dispute with FBI director Louis Freeh. (Reno denied a propose from Freeh to have an investigation on something (about Clinton?)) I realized there was such a weapon. At that time, I got more familiar about the Feds. I knew there was EM wave weapon. I alleged former FBI director Sessions who refused to give up his seat to Louis Freeh was punished by the EM wave weapon. He fell and broke his elbow the day before he was fired. So I speculated, would Reno be punished too? I was right. Soon there came the news that Reno collapsed in an open meeting when she made a speech in the stage. (I remember it was in Mexico?) She said she was dizzy and sick.

I suddenly remembered the unusual vomit I had years ago. That was the only vomits happened in decades. It came sudden and left sudden. It happened without any reasonable cause. I also recalled that years ago, the former President Bush Sr. (George W. Bush's father) had once collapsed in a banquet. (in Japan?) He collapsed on a neighbor guest and vomited. I realized there was an EM wave weapon that causes sick and vomit.

In April, 1999, I was in Hongkong to start my South-east Asia drift. Same thing happened to Mrs. Chen Fang An Shen - a top government official in Hongkong. She collapsed on her neighbor official in a meeting. The doctor said later that it was caused by the maladjustment of her balancing liquid in the ear.

In these three cases, all the victims were high ranking government officials. They were punished because they did something disfavored by the Feds. I noticed there was a similarity in these cases. They all took place in open places. In a meeting or a state banquet. In such occurrence, there were a lot of media people. It's easy to install a EM wave device in a camera. When the camera man focus on the face of the target, the EM wave ray also shoot at his head. The particular frequency set to disturb the balance liquid in the ear of the target. The result was the sick and vomit of the victim.

My conclusion soon was proved by another event. I even saw the camera and its handler with my own eyes.
 
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This thread should be with its companion threads:

Why is so wrong to drive drunk?

and...

Why is so wrong to beat your wife?


:eek::eek::eek:

Psychologically: When anyone has to ask "why torture is wrong" they've already lost the intellectual argument and have jumped head first into the lynch mob or herd mentality.

You don't torture because it's immoral & illegal. It puts our troops at even MORE likelihood that they will be tortured or killed if captured (in this conflict and every future conflict). It exposes our officials to international war crimes charges and diminishes are credibility in international courts when we try to claim torture & war crimes charges against other countries leaders.

Not to mention the intelligence raised through torture has over & over again been proven to be so hit or miss (because people under that stress will often say only what they think their captors want, true or false) that it is at the very best only marginally useful often false information anyway.
 
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