Why is so wrong to torture terrorists POWs?

[Andy]

I'm intrigued by the fact that there is not a single Christian posting on this thread. I would have thought that since America is a Christian country and founded on the tenets of Christianity and the teachings of Jesus that our behavior might be at least slightly influenced by those things.

Erm... there isn't a single part of American culture not touched by Christianity. Including the belief we should protect our people in the best way possible.

 

[Andy]

In all the blather pushed around on this issue, I've never seen a single real discussion of ethics re torture. Eg, some branches of utilitarianism would support it.

Really? There was a massive thread on the ethics of torture. I argued from then Atheist perspective, and as I suspected, it was a uniform draw.

 

[Federal Farmer]

I'm intrigued by the fact that there is not a single Christian posting on this thread. I would have thought that since America is a Christian country and founded on the tenets of Christianity and the teachings of Jesus that our behavior might be at least slightly influenced by those things.

Apparently you missed my post on page 2. I've been following it, and find it rather amusing the extent to which some libs will go through to justify being "nice" to our enemies. It's no different than it was during 'Nam, same stale excuses, same lame brained "logic", same whining, crying, and gnashing of teeth for "those poor unfortunate people".

KILL 'EM ALL, LET GOD SORT 'EM OUT!

 

[Federal Farmer]

Jesus said, love they neighbor...unless you suspect him of terror...then cut of his fingers, stick a hot metal rod up his..... and make him think you are killing him to make him talk....come to think of it, you could say he got Tortured pretty good, so I am sure he would be fine with doing it to others.

Straw man PFOS, we're not cutting off fingers, sticking hot metal rods anywhere, that's the islamofascists who do that stuff, along with a lot of other nasty sh**. But then again, what can you expect from people who follow the teachings of a lying, cheating, stealing, felching, bigamist, murdering, pedophile (pboh)?

 

[Andy]

My point was more on the other side...say you catch a lowe leval guy, it does not mean he may not have info as well. He could just as well give you very valuble intel ...My point is that, anyone could have info....yes of course a top guy will have more, but it does not mean the rest have no info...so do just toruture them all and find out?

Of course not. That's illogical at face value. Why would you waste countless days if not weeks, interrogating someone who could possibly know nothing, when you could be focusing on those you know for a fact do?

It would be better to hunt down leadership personnel and again, only waterboard if needed. Most will break over a long period of time. The issue in 2002 was that the CIA thought there was no time. They needed the information NOW to make sure there wasn't secondary plans in the works.

Again they will like, tell you what you want, what ever they do say will be hard to verify, you will not know the motive to why they told you, and they may still not say anything as they may be trained. Though Anyone can be broken ...McCain is a good example do you belive the things he signed or what ever as a POW...no I am guessing, but he still said/signed it...thats basicly what you get with those tactics...

Again... what they said was verified, and it was highly accurate. So you can't say it will be hard to verify.. when it wasn't. We don't need the motive, just the information. The information given led to the capture of many AQ terrorist members and planners. I couldn't care less what motivation he had, we captured many major fish in the AQ network. What else matters?

Apple and Oranges. Let us say that McCain (who supports the use of waterboarding) was tortured into signing a statement denouncing the US. This is not even comparable. The purpose of their actions is to get McCain to say something they know he doesn't believe or support, for the purpose of propaganda. It's to demoralize both prisoners and the enemy, while showing themselves strong to the public.

We are not trying to get them to say something we know is wrong. We are not trying to gain propaganda. We are not attempting to demoralize. We are simply trying to find information to save peoples lives.

Again, since we KNOW they have information, if they did MAKE UP stuff, we would verify and know it was false, and they would end up waterboarded again. Which is why they don't make up stuff. The information given was highly accurate. Of course this duck-tails my point above, being that we only do this on people we KNOW have information..

 

[Andy]

Jesus said, love they neighbor...unless you suspect him of terror...then cut of his fingers, stick a hot metal rod up his..... and make him think you are killing him to make him talk....come to think of it, you could say he got Tortured pretty good, so I am sure he would be fine with doing it to others.

Likely not a good idea to change the words of God. Glad I'm not in your place.

That said, you can't take one command for one situation and apply it wherever you like. The rules for personal situations, like when dealing with the average people you meet in life... doesn't apply to the duty of a government to protect it's populous.

You can't just take a random quote for a specific situation, then apply it everywhere you feel like and claim it doesn't work or something. Although I guess that is a common tactic for Democraps... so...

 

[pocketfullofshells]

Straw man PFOS, we're not cutting off fingers, sticking hot metal rods anywhere, that's the islamofascists who do that stuff, along with a lot of other nasty sh**. But then again, what can you expect from people who follow the teachings of a lying, cheating, stealing, felching, bigamist, murdering, pedophile (pboh)?

way to keep up with the thread....the point is should we be like them....and that is what they may do....and I am saying we should not....

Also Jesus was a Criminal who got Death penalty....Since you want to bash the leaders of other Religions. Also you Bigamist? ooooo big words, you have any idea why it was part of culture then? Also the Koran basicly makes it almost impossible for a human to marry more then one at a time. Pedophile? realy care to back that up? also most of the world would be Pedophiles by todays standards, but you feel free to put 2008 US law of age of consent on the year 600.

I have known Muslims who showed a great deal more Respect for my views, and where far less of Hypocrites then a great deal of Christians I have meet. But I choose to not sit and cast blame on the whole for the actions of the few..

 

[pocketfullofshells]

Likely not a good idea to change the words of God. Glad I'm not in your place.

That said, you can't take one command for one situation and apply it wherever you like. The rules for personal situations, like when dealing with the average people you meet in life... doesn't apply to the duty of a government to protect it's populous.

You can't just take a random quote for a specific situation, then apply it everywhere you feel like and claim it doesn't work or something. Although I guess that is a common tactic for Democraps... so...

Maybe god told me to say it.

 

[Federal Farmer]

way to keep up with the thread....the point is should we be like them....and that is what they may do....and I am saying we should not....

I got that, just pointing out that you made a bad analogy.

Also Jesus was a Criminal who got Death penalty....

He was convicted of a religious crime. If you'll recall, Pilate, the only true judicial authority, couldn't find any fault with Jesus.

Since you want to bash the leaders of other Religions. Also you Bigamist? ooooo big words, you have any idea why it was part of culture then?

I didn't say anything about him having concubines, he was married to more than one woman at one time, ergo a BIGAMIST.

Also the Koran basicly makes it almost impossible for a human to marry more then one at a time.

It's too bad that Muhammad (pboh) didn't bother to live by his own rules then isn't it. He had 13 wives, 12 of them at one time.

Pedophile? realy care to back that up? also most of the world would be Pedophiles by todays standards, but you feel free to put 2008 US law of age of consent on the year 600.

Being "married" to, and having sexual relations with a 9 YEAR OLD GIRL (Aisha) makes him a pedophile, period, end of discussion.

I have known Muslims who showed a great deal more Respect for my views, and where far less of Hypocrites then a great deal of Christians I have meet. But I choose to not sit and cast blame on the whole for the actions of the few..

Frankly I'm not the least bit interested in your experiences with Muzzies, UNLESS those experiences were gained in the Mid East (where I learned about them, up close and personal). Muzzies in the Western World would be stoned to death in a heartbeat over there, which is why most of them are here in the first place. If you want to spend your life being ignorant of the basic tenets of the faith of your 'friends', that's your choice, but be forewarned, they are tasked to convert, blackmail, or KILL all "infidels" (that would be especially YOU).

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

Erm... there isn't a single part of American culture not touched by Christianity. Including the belief we should protect our people in the best way possible.

Got scripture to back that up?

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

Apparently you missed my post on page 2. I've been following it, and find it rather amusing the extent to which some libs will go through to justify being "nice" to our enemies. It's no different than it was during 'Nam, same stale excuses, same lame brained "logic", same whining, crying, and gnashing of teeth for "those poor unfortunate people".

KILL 'EM ALL, LET GOD SORT 'EM OUT!

Was that supposed to be a Christian response?

 

[Libsmasher]

because no libs ridicule his being tortured...STRAW MAN

BS

They've done it LOTS of times - Eg:

Daily Kos' BarbinMD: "Richard Cohen explains that while Barack Obama may have a lot of charisma, his character is in question because of his lack of experience. And apparently the only experience that could answer that character question is if he was tortured while a POW."

 

[Federal Farmer]

Was that supposed to be a Christian response?

Joshua 5:13-6:27

 

[top gun]

America doesn't torture... we're above that... or at least we were until the Bush/Cheney administration. The Geneva Convention and may other international agreements are at stake here.

We don't have to become terrorists to defeat terrorists.

We only put our captured at much greater danger of abuse all over the world if any and all enemies can say... What are you talking about America, you are well known for torture yourselves!

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

Joshua 5:13-6:27

You're using the Old Testament to justify war? So do you also follow the other dictates of the Old Testament? Or are you just another cherry picking
Christian using the bits that you like? How about slavery, selling children, taking women as the spoils of war, raping the wives of vanquished enemies, raping virgins taken captive, etc.? All good? How about torture, can you find that in the Old Testament too or do you have a quote from Jesus to support that?