What a sad, truly sad statement about our homophobic way of thinking!

[dogtowner]

Hey Mare!!
Do YOU believe animals can sin? Did Jesus Christ die on the cross at Calavary for the Sins of Man, the Sins of animals? or both?

Do you believe Animals have the Power to "reason"?, as Man/ Woman does?
Do you believe GOD created Man/ Woman and Animal Life to be Equals? Or were Man/ Woman created in the Image of GOD and therefore Superior to all other creatures on this earth?

animals are driven to act by instinct. if "its time" and there is no handy member of the opposite sex, they improvise. if they are a heirachical society, dominance is often obtained via this.

now unless homosexuals are driven by these base factrors, and I have on good authority that they are not, its foolish to consider this animal behavior homosexual.

 

[Sihouette]

Hey Always, you're going a little overboard on the Bible thumping. Knock it off. Don't you know it's your ism vs Mare's? You both look whacked from my POV.

If we rely on the science behind homosexuality we find that one set of identical twins that grows up to be one lesbian and the other hetero instantly nullifies the theory that homosexuality is genetic. That's it. Done. Add to that [as if you needed to] that the gays themselves embrace a term called "Bi-curious" and you have them admitting not only that homosexuality isn't genetic, but that they're trying to lure people into their ism.

Yes, that's what it means.

Then add to those points [again as if you needed to] an entire industry that relies on sexual malleability to produce our food and keep our endangered species afloat via artificial insemination; where male animals are routinely fixated via classical conditioning [pairing environmental cues or stimuli to a reward in order to fixate a given behavior] to prefer dummy mounts or same-sexed "collection" mounts [to minimize injury to more valuable female animals].

Then study up on child psychology and read how we are the apex species of susceptibility to environmental cues in the formation of our personalities and behavioral patterns....I mean, the list goes on and on. On the side of homosexuality being an acquired sexual deviance [but also likely fixated** see AI industry] we have a mound of evidence the size of the moon. On the side of it being genetic we have virtually nothing but hopeful speculation. The Pfaus et al. study http://www-psychology.concordia.ca/fac/pfaus/Pfaus-Kippin-Centeno(2001).pdf supports exactly that environmental cues form sexual preference in numereous animal species. And yes silly people, we bleed, lactate, defecate and have mating cycles and tons of evidence to support our animalistic leanings so nix your pathetic retorts of 'we are not animals!". Yada yada. If that's your only rebuttal to this compelling amount of evidence then you'd better pack it up and surrender right now..lol..

So GIVEN that homosexuality is acquired, and may even contribute to an increase of itself via social-learning of homo sapiens via "norms" we had better err on the side of the preponderance of evidence and keep homosexuality in the light as what it is: an acquired social pathogen. They exist you know. Much like the evidence found in watching TV in youngsters. We can pass on wanted or unwanted behaviors via the spongy minds of youth. And just when someone reading this will cry "homophobe"! "hater!" etc., remember it is the gays, not I who embrace the word "Bi-curious"...


What does that mean exactly? Ah, an entire hidden universe in one little word..

 

[always]

animals are driven to act by instinct. if "its time" and there is no handy member of the opposite sex, they improvise. if they are a heirachical society, dominance is often obtained via this.

now unless homosexuals are driven by these base factrors, and I have on good authority that they are not, its foolish to consider this animal behavior homosexual.

Yes, dogtowner!! Kinda makes "Mares'" argument a nightmare for her?, huh

 

[dogtowner]

Yes, dogtowner!! Kinda makes "Mares'" argument a nightmare for her?, huh

the other team seeks validation in the context of this being a natural phenomonon as the gene thing went nowhere.

but as all those dogs who tried to hump me are not homosexual nor the penguins who turned straight when moved to a new zoo.

 

[Sihouette]

Another way of looking at the animal issue is that if we have a broad behavioral pattern among many species, we can better extrapolate it to humans. But at the same time we cannot assume it's genetic in animals. The Pfaus study is interesting in that I was amazed at how much cognition went into mate-selection across several species. There were indications that an animal's mother's coloring even influenced her offspring's decision on which mate to select.

 

[dogtowner]

Another way of looking at the animal issue is that if we have a broad behavioral pattern among many species, we can better extrapolate it to humans. But at the same time we cannot assume it's genetic in animals. The Pfaus study is interesting in that I was amazed at how much cognition went into mate-selection across several species. There were indications that an animal's mother's coloring even influenced her offspring's decision on which mate to select.

there is a term for thishttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropomorphism

 

[Sihouette]

Yes, dogtowner!! Kinda makes "Mares'" argument a nightmare for her?, huh

Mare isn't a woman Always. He had his penis and testicles surgically removed because of issues he has with what he saw as male behavioral attributes he didn't like being modeled for him and for a desire to emulate more feminine roles he saw portrayed around him.

He lumped all males into "aggressive and macho" and all females into "feminine and demure" and saw no gray areas for either gender to fall into. So, not identifying with, from his accounts, extreme examples of machismo, he decided to alter his body to appear female and also to adopt ultra-fem attributes in his all-or-nothing approach to identity within a gender.

His use of the handle "Mare Tranquility" I was pointing out just the other day was a very revealing name in that it shows further how little he understands of gender roles as ACTUALLY played out vs, stereotyped images of them. Mares are brutal creatures at times, far more aggressive than anything he experienced in the boy's locker room in school. That he believes mares are tranquil shows his lack of true knowledge of what is "feminine".

I was trying to illustrate that but as usual it fell on his deaf ears. Aggressive therapy, not self-mutilation is what he needed and needs. Many trannies lie or omit certain details of their psyche to "therapists" they carefully select who are emphathetic to gender-alteration surgery. Mare falls in that category of suspected manipulators because as you can tell from his posts, he is adept at historical revisionism and is intelligent and persistent enough to have pulled off any ruse he set his mind to.

It is sad. Yet he has presented a rare vingnette of his issues right here on HOP. To wit:

PLUSSES: fewer birthday and Christmas presents to buy (no brothers), I get to be who I feel like I am every day, no depression, no hopelessness, less body hair (ugh!), JOY, happiness, satisfaction, peace of mind, pretty clothes, perfume, fun shoes, no insane, endless, my-dick-is-bigger-than-yours male competition, social life, no suicidal ideation, much more capacity to interact with the world, no self-hatred, loving myself, being happy with who I see in the mirror every day, the camaraderie of women, less interaction with men, no more struggles to behave like a man so that men wouldn't beat the sh1t out of me for being queer, increased acceptance of other people's differences--I have many gay friends, pen-pals around the world, and I know hundreds of other trans-people of all kinds. And I am DONE with the incessant male sex drive--thank God!

MINUSES: fewer birthday and Christmas presents to buy (no brothers ), lost 1/3 of my muscle mass and strength (both good and bad there), cost me tens of thousands of dollars to transition, I lost most of my friends, lost my home, lost my business, lost my shop, I'm not as safe now, not treated well by the prevailing religious community, am discriminated against legally as a 2nd class citizen, uncertain medical future since no long term studies have been done on people like me, have been denied medical care, still have all the light colored beard hair that the lasers wouldn't destroy, need electrolysis to remove the rest--money/pain, my wife and I are in legal limbo since our marriage could be taken away from us--my brothers are part of the campaign to annul marriages like ours, my voice is too deep, my feet are too big, my arms too long and my hands too big for comfort as a woman, I lost the ability to have sex due to damage during the surgery, after 5 years I still have neuropathy (nerve pain), and no matter what I do I'll never be a man or a woman since I was born somewhere out in the middle between the two https://www.houseofpolitics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6052&highlight=prop+8&page=20

 

[dogtowner]

he is adept at historical revisionism and is intelligent and persistent enough to have pulled off any ruse he set his mind to.

he is persistant with revisionism but adept ? nah.
intellegent to pull off ... ? persistant but I have yet to see successful.

anyone who thinks a horse, any horse, is just a big dog (all lovable and sweet) has no idea how quickly they can be killed by one. a thousand pounds or more of ANY critter makes a fight with you, unfair.

 

[Sihouette]

My intentions aren't, like Mare's, to be harsh in dredging up an actual quote [vs heresay/misquoting] from him illustrating that it is he who has the issues.

My intentions are to show that in spite of all his psuedo-science what really lies at the heart of his position is just common psychological denial. And if this is the heart of his issues, it could be that many other transexuals are just good manipulators instead of people with some sort of "genetic issue".

The reason this is important to make a distinction about is that people with sexual issues like GLBT, are very quick to write off their condition as beyond their ability to control, without venturing too deeply into understanding why that is. Classical conditioning is hard to reverse and many may only be able to come to terms with their deviance instead of change it. That's why we have psychologists and psychiatrists. Mare's assumption that his condition arose from birth is a very dangerous assumption considering the evidence against that and its implications. Those implications include a social-vector and primate learning once something becomes "normal" in a society framework. To normalize via the military [and then through the precident, via marriage] these issues is a dangerous thing to do blindly. So I'm asking that people continue to debate the GLBT agenda but to do so with blinders off. Step around their agenda of demonizing [homophobe, hater, bigot etc.] anyone against their push to normalize what they do. [That's why Always' stance is just fueling the fire]. Lashing out at investigation/investigators of something denied is a classic tool of those in denial BTW and further supports that common denial is behind their isms.

Let's take a thorough look at what makes GLBT tick and then make decisions how to handle it. Otherwise we'd be blind fools. We are playing with our the very fabric of our children and grandchildrens' learning matrix by drastically altering the word "normal" to suit some people who just dont' want to see the elephant in the living room. Essentially.

he is persistant with revisionism but adept ? nah.

You're right dog. "practiced" would've been a better word than "adept". Thanks for pointing that out.

 

[Sihouette]

Dude, you do realize that when you belittle Mare like that you give him fuel. Is that what you want? To give people like him an edge in defending their insanity? It doesn't do them or any of us any good if insanity wins a debate as important as this one is.

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

reading your book seperates you from the actual data, read the research papers yourself and avoid the author's spin. Its trouble enough getting past the spin in the research.

It's always nice to discuss a book with someone who not seen the book, let alone read it. Dog talkin' through his hat.

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

Hmmm , You not only rewrite the Bible, you also can read my mind.
Now, as for animals having sex with the same sex animal , I see nothing really wrong with that, now on the farm I did turn the hose on a dog or two who were "locked up".
However , I was never tempted to duplicate their homosexual conduct. I believe because my creator wisely elevated the character of man/woman to a much higher level than the animal , "MAN" avoided a natural urge to copy the sex lives of any animal. Those who do are breaking "Gods' Law" and that action is known as PERVERSION!- Case Closed!- Next!

Simplistic thinking is very popular, it's cheap, easy, and it requires no original thought on your part.

People are biological animals too, we have the same drives, and many of the same instinctual reactions. The fact that you happen to be a heterosexual is just a good coincidence for you. The idea that the normal variations in sexual behaviors are somehow judged good or bad is baseless. Bear in mind that the Word of God you are relying on says that slavery is acceptable too, and has an interesting process to find out if a woman has cheated on her husband. It's just an old book.

 

[Gipper]

Mare has or should I say had a penis. Really?

Come on now. You must be kidding.

Mare is a feminazi all the way...but I can't help but love her...well I think she is a she......

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

MARE!!, Just because you may know something about anothers personal life or problems , or just think you know, is no valid reason for telling it!
Life on this earth can be very tough, even in the best of times, so what good does it do you or your victim to spread unkindness? Compassion is a virtue!

Read the posts about me on this thread and then explain how I'm the one lacking compassion. Do you realize that not one of the people giving me grief has ANY education on the subject of transsexualism? Talk about ignorance on parade!

Siho has based her personal attacks on me on the experiences she claims to have had in her life. That makes her experiences fair game on the thread.

I'm curious why you are giving me a hard time about stuff. There is not a single word in your holy book about transsexuals--so why are you posting to me at all?

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

Hey Mare!!
Do YOU believe animals can sin? Did Jesus Christ die on the cross at Calavary for the Sins of Man, the Sins of animals? or both?

Do you believe Animals have the Power to "reason"?, as Man/ Woman does?
Do you believe GOD created Man/ Woman and Animal Life to be Equals? Or were Man/ Woman created in the Image of GOD and therefore Superior to all other creatures on this earth?

All life comes from the Creator, as far as I know there is no "superior" life except when humans claim that for themselves. No proof.

Animals never fell from grace so Jesus would not have died for their sins.

I don't believe the blood payment nonsense demanded by God to ransom humanity from their sins. The Creator of the Universe would hardly act like a nomadic goatherder.