Were and are socialist experiments beneficial to their respective inhabitants?

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mark francis said:
The CCP condones slavery in China, or it would be abolished. Slavery was abolished in the US a hundred and fifty years ago in spite of Democrat opposition so certainly the CCP could abolish slavery if the CCP found slavery distasteful.
Click to expand...

Again, China is an immense landmass and is the world's second-largest population. As such, it is difficult for the CCP to eradicate chattel slavery, just as it is difficult for the U.S. government to eliminate clandestine drug labs. Chinese chattel slave drivers are known to relocate their production facilities frequently and to pay off local authorities, thereby making it arduous for the CCP to combat domestic chattel slavery.

As for the suggestion that the CCP doesn't wish to abolish chattel slavery, it would be ideologically inconsistent for a government that has worked to nearly eliminate deep poverty but does not also want to eradicate chattel slavery, which is the deepest of deep poverty.

It is also the case that there are an estimated 400,000 chattel slaves currently in the United States. From sex slavery to garment manufacturing to housework, the U.S. government is also hard-pressed to stamp out domestic chattel slavery. And that is aside from the domestic chattel slavery that the U.S. government is not concerned with eliminating: prison-based chattel slavery, which the Thirteenth Amendment legalized.
Indeed, Section I of the Thirteenth Amendment reads: Neither [chattel] slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States..."

So, again, the U.S., its government, and its people don't enjoy any amount of room to chastise any other society concerning chattel slavery. And that is aside from the issue of wage slavery, which robs workers of the lion's share of the economic wealth their labor power produces, thereby subjecting most workers to a lifetime of precarity and so much more.

Be well
Redflag
 
pjmret said:
obviously god must condone it, he could have forbidden it and yet he didn't.
he addresssed it a number of times in the bible, obviously it was an important subject.
Click to expand...
If God allowed or commanded the enemies of God be made slaves instead of being killed than that seems like God having mercy on His enemies. However, God did command His people to treat slaves humanely and slavery was an option for some people wishing to escape starvation as a result of poverty. In that regard, there existed what is known as voluntary slavery that was different from involuntary=tary slavery.
Here is what Wikipedia said about God's dealings with slavery:

In the Bible
In the Hebrew Bible (the Old Testament), there are many references to slaves, including rules of how they should behave and be treated. Slavery is viewed as routine, as an ordinary part of society. During jubilees, slaves were to be released, according to the Book of Leviticus.[6] Israelite slaves were also to be released during their seventh year of service, according to the Deuteronomic Code.[7] Non-Hebrew slaves and their offspring were the perpetual property of the owner's family,[8] with limited exceptions.[9] The Curse of Ham (Genesis 9:18–27) is an important passage related to slavery. It has been noted that the slavery in the Bible differs greatly from Roman and modern slavery in that slaves mentioned in the Old Testament received sexual protection and enough food, and were not chained, tortured or physically abused.[10]

In the New Testament, slaves are told to obey their owners, who are in turn told to "stop threatening" their slaves.[11][12] The Epistle to Philemon has many implications related to slavery.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Here is what Wikipedia said about voluntary slavery:

Voluntary slavery

4 Voluntary slavery, in theory, is the condition of slavery entered into at a point of voluntary consent. It is distinguished from involuntary slavery where an individual is forced to a period of servitude usually as punishment for a crime.[1]

Origin[edit]
Some believe[weasel words] that in ancient times, this was a common way for impoverished people to provide subsistence for themselves or their family and provision was made for this in law.[2] For example, the code of Hammurabi stated that "besides being able to borrow on personal security, an individual might sell himself or a family member into slavery".[3] However, according to a different translation, "If any one fail to meet a claim for debt, and sell himself, his wife, his son, and daughter for money or give them away to forced labor: they shall work for three years in the house of the man who bought them, or the proprietor, and in the fourth year they shall be set free."[4] This may be interpreted to mean that rather than people voluntary selling themselves into slavery in return for a loan, slavery was simply the standard penalty for failure to pay off a debt.[5] Other parts of the Code of Hammurabi show both debt and slavery as being part of the criminal justice system of the time, such as, "If any one be too lazy to keep his dam in proper condition, and does not so keep it; if then the dam break and all the fields be flooded, then shall he in whose dam the break occurred be sold for money, and the money shall replace the corn which he has caused to be ruined."[6]
 
Redflag said:
Again, China is an immense landmass and is the world's second-largest population. As such, it is difficult for the CCP to eradicate chattel slavery, just as it is difficult for the U.S. government to eliminate clandestine drug labs. Chinese chattel slave drivers are known to relocate their production facilities frequently and to pay off local authorities, thereby making it arduous for the CCP to combat domestic chattel slavery.

As for the suggestion that the CCP doesn't wish to abolish chattel slavery, it would be ideologically inconsistent for a government that has worked to nearly eliminate deep poverty but does not also want to eradicate chattel slavery, which is the deepest of deep poverty.

It is also the case that there are an estimated 400,000 chattel slaves currently in the United States. From sex slavery to garment manufacturing to housework, the U.S. government is also hard-pressed to stamp out domestic chattel slavery. And that is aside from the domestic chattel slavery that the U.S. government is not concerned with eliminating: prison-based chattel slavery, which the Thirteenth Amendment legalized.
Indeed, Section I of the Thirteenth Amendment reads: Neither [chattel] slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States..."

So, again, the U.S., its government, and its people don't enjoy any amount of room to chastise any other society concerning chattel slavery. And that is aside from the issue of wage slavery, which robs workers of the lion's share of the economic wealth their labor power produces, thereby subjecting most workers to a lifetime of precarity and so much more.

Be well
Redflag
Click to expand...
Let's assume the CCP wants to eradicate slavery, but the people won't allow them to do that. Have you got evidence to support that assumption?
 
mark francis said:
If God allowed or commanded the enemies of God be made slaves instead of being killed than that seems like God having mercy on His enemies. However, God did command His people to treat slaves humanely and slavery was an option for some people wishing to escape starvation as a result of poverty. In that regard, there existed what is known as voluntary slavery that was different from involuntary=tary slavery.
Here is what Wikipedia said about God's dealings with slavery:

In the Bible
In the Hebrew Bible (the Old Testament), there are many references to slaves, including rules of how they should behave and be treated. Slavery is viewed as routine, as an ordinary part of society. During jubilees, slaves were to be released, according to the Book of Leviticus.[6] Israelite slaves were also to be released during their seventh year of service, according to the Deuteronomic Code.[7] Non-Hebrew slaves and their offspring were the perpetual property of the owner's family,[8] with limited exceptions.[9] The Curse of Ham (Genesis 9:18–27) is an important passage related to slavery. It has been noted that the slavery in the Bible differs greatly from Roman and modern slavery in that slaves mentioned in the Old Testament received sexual protection and enough food, and were not chained, tortured or physically abused.[10]

In the New Testament, slaves are told to obey their owners, who are in turn told to "stop threatening" their slaves.[11][12] The Epistle to Philemon has many implications related to slavery.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Here is what Wikipedia said about voluntary slavery:

Voluntary slavery

4 Voluntary slavery, in theory, is the condition of slavery entered into at a point of voluntary consent. It is distinguished from involuntary slavery where an individual is forced to a period of servitude usually as punishment for a crime.[1]

Origin[edit]
Some believe[weasel words] that in ancient times, this was a common way for impoverished people to provide subsistence for themselves or their family and provision was made for this in law.[2] For example, the code of Hammurabi stated that "besides being able to borrow on personal security, an individual might sell himself or a family member into slavery".[3] However, according to a different translation, "If any one fail to meet a claim for debt, and sell himself, his wife, his son, and daughter for money or give them away to forced labor: they shall work for three years in the house of the man who bought them, or the proprietor, and in the fourth year they shall be set free."[4] This may be interpreted to mean that rather than people voluntary selling themselves into slavery in return for a loan, slavery was simply the standard penalty for failure to pay off a debt.[5] Other parts of the Code of Hammurabi show both debt and slavery as being part of the criminal justice system of the time, such as, "If any one be too lazy to keep his dam in proper condition, and does not so keep it; if then the dam break and all the fields be flooded, then shall he in whose dam the break occurred be sold for money, and the money shall replace the corn which he has caused to be ruined."[6]
Click to expand...


ah, slavery is god being merciful? that's the story you are going with? hahahahahahhahah

no wonder so many people think christians like you are hateful.
 
pjmret said:
ah, slavery is god being merciful? that's the story you are going with? hahahahahahhahah

no wonder so many people think christians like you are hateful.
Click to expand...
Was a man's option to voluntarily enter into slavery worse than the alternative which was seeing his family starve to death?
 
pjmret said:
condoning an evil like slavery is pathetic.
you defending hate is pathetic.
Click to expand...
I don't condone slavery and your slander of God because you do not understand Him is barbaric. Besides, someone who condones slavery in China but condemns God for dealing with slavery His way is someone lacking good judgment.
 
mark francis said:
I don't condone slavery and your slander of God because you do not understand Him is barbaric. Besides, someone who condones slavery in China but condemns God for dealing with slavery His way is someone lacking good judgment.
Click to expand...
you dont condone it? why dont you agree with your god who condones hateful slavery?
 
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