Presidential Political Stigma: Being Branded a Socialist.

[Stalin]

3-60 million, split the difference and it a lot.

So you don't know anything about the subject..just guessing.

If you know anything about Marxists, you will know that they consider they have a scientific approach to history.

So

Where's the data ?

Comrade Stalin

 

[dogtowner]

So you don't know anything about the subject..just guessing.

If you know anything about Marxists, you will know that they consider they have a scientific approach to history.

So

Where's the data ?

Comrade Stalin

its everywhere.

if there is anything I know about Marxists its that they ignore fact and reason if it confronts their ideology.

 

[strongservice]

If you do an analysis since say, 1800, you could probably give the collective award for the greatest body count to the self-proclaimed policeman of the world, the good old United States of America.

Forum members are invited to guess the total number of deaths from

1) The ethnic cleansing of the indigenous natives of North America.
2) The war crime of exploding Atomic bombs over two Japanese cities.
3) The misadventure in Vietnam and nearby countries.
4) US adventurism in Mexico and all points south.
5) The current wars in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq and the probable wars in Syria, Iran and anywhere
that has the unfortunate luck to discover a resource that the US wants and needs and does not want
to pay the market price.

I open the total at 3 million Vietnamese killed..more to follow.

Comrade Stalin

.
Do not forget the 150,000 Iraqi civilians that died when America invaded looking for weapons of mass destruction and more importantly so Bush JR could one up his dad.

 

[Cruella]

.
Do not forget the 150,000 Iraqi civilians that died when America invaded looking for weapons of mass destruction and more importantly so Bush JR could one up his dad.

Yeah, we went into Iraq to murder people. Nice try. How many died because their own people killed them?

 

[dogtowner]

Yeah, we went into Iraq to murder people. Nice try. How many died because their own people killed them?

and how many quickly donned their civilian clothes ? more than a few going strictly on past habit.

 

[AgainstTheMachine]

If you do an analysis since say, 1800, you could probably give the collective award for the greatest body count to the self-proclaimed policeman of the world, the good old United States of America.

Forum members are invited to guess the total number of deaths from

1) The ethnic cleansing of the indigenous natives of North America.
2) The war crime of exploding Atomic bombs over two Japanese cities.
3) The misadventure in Vietnam and nearby countries.
4) US adventurism in Mexico and all points south.
5) The current wars in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq and the probable wars in Syria, Iran and anywhere
that has the unfortunate luck to discover a resource that the US wants and needs and does not want
to pay the market price.

I open the total at 3 million Vietnamese killed..more to follow.

Comrade Stalin

Let's break this down Comrade - the BOLD text is your wording

1) The ethnic cleansing of the indigenous natives of North America. ... and what ancient Egypt did to the Jews or Australia did to their natives, or the African tribesmen who sold their enemy to slave traders or how about current issues like what Pakistan is doing to the people on the border to India or " Islamic Jihadist" want to do to the ENTIRE WORLD
2) The war crime of exploding Atomic bombs over two Japanese cities. Can't argue that!
3) The misadventure in Vietnam and nearby countries. That was to try to stop Communism which has never been successful without harming it's own subjected peoples
4) US adventurism in Mexico and all points south. Come on ... ADVENTURISM? Really ... and Tovarisch Putin would NEVER do that in places like Afghanistan or Syria or even Iran!
5) The current wars in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq and the probable wars in Syria, Iran and anywhere
that has the unfortunate luck to discover a resource that the US wants and needs and does not want
to pay the market price. Be specific - what U.S. interest in resources do Afghanistan and Pakistan own?

I open the total at 3 million Vietnamese killed..more to follow. More to follow? Just like Russian Communism is leading us to our own American Gulag Camp's

The Black Book of Communism: Crimes, Terror, Repression is an interesting book to read.

Then there are the facts about Genocide in Ukraine in 1932 where about 14 million people died of starvation.
That was because of in the year of 1928 when Stalin's infamous Five-Year plan began and his infamous Gulag's started to sprout up (sort of like OUR internment camps {A newly uncovered Army document details U.S. internment camps on American soil.})

I feel so sorry for you and your delusion - you have no idea what you are wanting and what has already been lost because of people like you!​

People like MY WIFE who came to the USA as a political refugee from Communist Hungary actually despises the weakness of the left leanings of Romney ... all because SHE LIVED in that mess you so animatedly insist is wonderful ...

 

[Gipper]

Let's break this down Comrade - the BOLD text is your wording

1) The ethnic cleansing of the indigenous natives of North America. ... and what ancient Egypt did to the Jews or Australia did to their natives, or the African tribesmen who sold their enemy to slave traders or how about current issues like what Pakistan is doing to the people on the border to India or " Islamic Jihadist" want to do to the ENTIRE WORLD
2) The war crime of exploding Atomic bombs over two Japanese cities. Can't argue that!
3) The misadventure in Vietnam and nearby countries. That was to try to stop Communism which has never been successful without harming it's own subjected peoples
4) US adventurism in Mexico and all points south. Come on ... ADVENTURISM? Really ... and Tovarisch Putin would NEVER do that in places like Afghanistan or Syria or even Iran!
5) The current wars in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq and the probable wars in Syria, Iran and anywhere
that has the unfortunate luck to discover a resource that the US wants and needs and does not want
to pay the market price. Be specific - what U.S. interest in resources do Afghanistan and Pakistan own?

I open the total at 3 million Vietnamese killed..more to follow. More to follow? Just like Russian Communism is leading us to our own American Gulag Camp's

The Black Book of Communism: Crimes, Terror, Repression is an interesting book to read.

Then there are the facts about Genocide in Ukraine in 1932 where about 14 million people died of starvation.
That was because of in the year of 1928 when Stalin's infamous Five-Year plan began and his infamous Gulag's started to sprout up (sort of like OUR internment camps {A newly uncovered Army document details U.S. internment camps on American soil.})

I feel so sorry for you and your delusion - you have no idea what you are wanting and what has already been lost because of people like you!​

People like MY WIFE who came to the USA as a political refugee from Communist Hungary actually despises the weakness of the left leanings of Romney ... all because SHE LIVED in that mess you so animatedly insist is wonderful ...

Well said.

My wife's parents got of Lithuania in the nick of time. They came from very large families. Most of their family members were never heard from again once the Soviets overran the country. They were either deported to the gulag or summarily executed.

For one to condemn the atrocities committed by America, while commending the USSR as a wonderful paradise, confirms one is insane or a commie propagandist.

The atrocities committed by the USSR during it's relatively short lived 70 years, exceed nearly all others.

I recently read detailed accounts of the unbelievable cruelties committed by Soviet troops as they conquered eastern Europe. They not only killed, tortured, deported, and raped Germans. They did these things to all nationalities they came across. They depopulated large areas, while stealing everything of value. Nearly every women/girl from 12-60 was brutally raped. Often times repeatedly, while their children watched, then murdered. The horrors were beyond belief.

This little known event is typical of the lack of objective historical reporting related to the USSR during WWII. I suspect the blame for this lays with FDR and the liberal American press, as both had a wonderful fondness for Uncle Joe and his merry band of ruthless warriors.

 

[AgainstTheMachine]

Well said.

My wife's parents got of Lithuania in the nick of time. They came from very large families. Most of their family members were never heard from again once the Soviets overran the country. They were either deported to the gulag or summarily executed.

For one to condemn the atrocities committed by America, while commending the USSR as a wonderful paradise, confirms one is insane or a commie propagandist.

The atrocities committed by the USSR during it's relatively short lived 70 years, exceed nearly all others.

I recently read detailed accounts of the unbelievable cruelties committed by Soviet troops as they conquered eastern Europe. They not only killed, tortured, deported, and raped Germans. They did these things to all nationalities they came across. They depopulated large areas, while stealing everything of value. Nearly every women/girl from 12-60 was brutally raped. Often times repeatedly, while their children watched, then murdered. The horrors were beyond belief.

This little known event is typical of the lack of objective historical reporting related to the USSR during WWII. I suspect the blame for this lays with FDR and the liberal American press, as both had a wonderful fondness for Uncle Joe and his merry band of ruthless warriors.

The things you are talking about ... I was taught from first hand accounts about all the whack jobs in Europe.
My father was born in Gleiwitz Germany and was living there when the Nazi (dressed up like Polish dissidents) killed the guy at the radio tower so Hitler could invade Poland ...

my family (not Jewish) were put on a train headed to a concentration camp ... the insanity of that whole region has proven itself time and again.

It's part of a defunct thinking when a society has been placed under elite thumbs for too long. They become too complacent with the controls so they stop learning HOW to think and gladly accept WHAT to think and own it as if THEY figured it out on their own.

It's happening here with the explosion of Globalism.

It's a festering of resentment which makes them (much of our society) think entitlement is a hand out instead of a chance to earn a handy way out of what they live in.

 

[Gipper]

The things you are talking about ... I was taught from first hand accounts about all the whack jobs in Europe.
My father was born in Gleiwitz Germany and was living there when the Nazi (dressed up like Polish dissidents) killed the guy at the radio tower so Hitler could invade Poland ...

my family (not Jewish) were put on a train headed to a concentration camp ... the insanity of that whole region has proven itself time and again.

It's part of a defunct thinking when a society has been placed under elite thumbs for too long. They become too complacent with the controls so they stop learning HOW to think and gladly accept WHAT to think and own it as if THEY figured it out on their own.

It's happening here with the explosion of Globalism.

It's a festering of resentment which makes them (much of our society) think entitlement is a hand out instead of a chance to earn a handy way out of what they live in.

My Father in-law was caught by Soviet troops in Poland. The front at that time was constantly changing so it was impossible to know from one day to the next where the opposing armies would be. He was badly beaten and accused of being a partisan. He was told to stand with his arms raised above his head for hours, while drunken Soviet troops continually threatened to blow his brains out. He was 17 years old. Luckily the Germans returned and chased the Soviets out. Late in the war, the Nazis caught him near Berlin. He was immediately enrolled in the German army and was going to be sent to the front, but somehow he managed to get away with the help of locals. He had numerous close calls, but somehow he survived.

He said the Soviet troops were filthy and most were drunk. They usually did not carry and food rations, but they all had vodka.

 

[AgainstTheMachine]

My Father in-law was caught by Soviet troops in Poland. The front at that time was constantly changing so it was impossible to know from one day to the next where the opposing armies would be. He was badly beaten and accused of being a partisan. He was told to stand with his arms raised above his head for hours, while drunken Soviet troops continually threatened to blow his brains out. He was 17 years old. Luckily the Germans returned and chased the Soviets out. Late in the war, the Nazis caught him near Berlin. He was immediately enrolled in the German army and was going to be sent to the front, but somehow he managed to get away with the help of locals. He had numerous close calls, but somehow he survived.

He said the Soviet troops were filthy and most were drunk. They usually did not carry and food rations, but they all had vodka.

It's interesting how lives are effected by those of the previous several generations.

So long as it is not a crutch to deliberately mess up ...

 

[g4racer]

Having social programs does not make a nation Socialist. Even it did there is nothing to support the belief that a Socialist Nation is destined to become Communist. For Marx the Socialist government was a step leading to Communism; but Socialist governments do not necessarily become Communistic.
The problem with most of the comments made by the Extreme Right is they believe that anyone who does not agree with them 100% is against them. The exhibit their extremism by using extremes as that is the why their minds work. The propaganda from all extremist segment of our political lacks honesty and revert to "if it isn't this extreme it must be that extreme".

 

[dogtowner]

Having social programs does not make a nation Socialist. Even it did there is nothing to support the belief that a Socialist Nation is destined to become Communist. For Marx the Socialist government was a step leading to Communism; but Socialist governments do not necessarily become Communistic.
The problem with most of the comments made by the Extreme Right is they believe that anyone who does not agree with them 100% is against them. The exhibit their extremism by using extremes as that is the why their minds work. The propaganda from all extremist segment of our political lacks honesty and revert to "if it isn't this extreme it must be that extreme".

Socialist countries never become communist for much the same reason that none are textbook examples. The only point is attaining money and power. Socialists differ only in that they have no issues wracheting up the violence.

 

[g4racer]

And my point is that extremists seldom think for themselves they follow. A government exists for several reasons with one being order. I couldn't believe what I was hearing when the Tea Party was beginning, "We'll shut down the government!"
They are being driven by greed, attaining wealth is their God. If any spent the time to think they would have said they wanted to fix it. Slogans greed and hatred are their tools.
History is part myth, some outright lies and enough truth to make it acceptable. They are named properly, The Tea Party. What was the Tea Party all about? I attended a gathering of my high school class two years ago where the husband of a classmate decided to tell us how capitalism started in this country. He said that the start of capitalism was the smugglers in the Massachusetts communities. Smuggling is against the law making it the criminal element. The reason one becomes a smuggler is so 'they' can make money. The British were about to drop the price of tea where tea smugglers would be put out of business. That is a fact recorded in both English and records in the Colonies. The major smugglers kept that information from the people. England had a problem, importing tea was a profitable business and people could make a lot of money, which they did. The problem came about when to many brought in too much. The ports in England were filled with ships loaded with tea and they had run out of places to store it. They could even unload many of the ships. We like to talk about a 'Free Market', well here it is, get too much of something and the price drops. The plan was to send a lot to the Colonies at a low price which would have put an end to smuggling and making a lot of money.
We talk about the Pilgrims coming here for religious freedom, a lie. They went to Holland and had religious freedom; but chose to leave and return to that horrible country they had just left. They came to the New World and set up a society that was worse for others than England ever was to them. They drove out the people that did not believe as they did using any means possible.

 

[dogtowner]

You are aware that the.TEA Party is an anagram for Taxed Enough Already right ? This was the simple message that was so attractive to such a diverse crowd. But as with all crowds some saw opportunity for power and money (recurring theme in politics) and thus the attempt to fashion an actual party from the movement. And so ended a perfectly good movement.
Regarding the.pilgrims, it was perfectly normal for there to be favored sects of the government in the old countries so why would you expect any different here ? And this only insured that religious freedom would be engineered into America when its time came.
Greed is mit the exclusive domain of the commercial world... the government has an insaiasble appetite for other peoples money.

 

[g4racer]

I know what the Tea Party is and how it got started and the groups existing by the televangilists that jumped on the Band Wagon as they can worship their God, easy to find, its printed on it. "In God We Trust"
The waste in government is not acceptable. The attitude that the end justifies the means is not acceptable. Most Founding Fathers would have been run out of town if the same standard existed then as exist today. I see only 3 politicians of the era as being acceptable:
Thomas Jefferson
George Mason
John Adams
I wouldn't expect them to be different on the subject of religion, I only want people to be hones and ethical. I know that is a lot to ask.