Understanding the Enemy

[Coyote]

and the 10000 terrorism attacks post 911?

What 10,000 attacks?

When you exclude those occuring in a country under foreign invasion and occupation, how many are we talking about, where, and when?

There are a number of different recognized terrorist organizations and though currently the majority are Islamist, many are ethnic, nationalist and of other religions.

Your statement is far too broad to assign responsibility.

 

[numinus]

Christian doctrine and Catholic doctrine are one and the same. For ages - Catholocism WAS Christianity and the two were inseperable in fact, are inseperable. It is no more, no less then Protestant doctrine, or any of a number of Christian sects. To argue otherwise would mean you would have to examine Sufi, Shia, Sunni and a host of other Islamic sects and determine which is the "real" Islam. They all are.

Christian doctrine was used to justify atrocities. What you are doing is making a seperate standard for Christianity (allowing it a "reformation" or differing standards of interpretation) but you are unwilling to extend such a standard to Islam.

How many times in the Bible does a pissed off God mandate that he and only he shall be worshipped and his followers exorted to kill, decimate and destroy rivals?

Not only that, but supposedly the Bible prophesies an earthly Kingdom where heaven will come down to earth forever. God's throne will be on the earth throughout eternity. The throne promised to David (1 Chronicles 17:10-14) will be established forever, in Jerusalem. The Kingdom begins when the King, Jesus Christ, returns to earth (Zechariah 13:8-14:9.)

He will rule for 1000 years and then, the Bible tells us, the present heavens and earth will be destroyed and there will be a new heaven and earth that is perfect and holy. And how is this going to happen? Through the violence of men in God's name because someone has to prepare the way for God's return.

It doesn't matter what is exactly said in the doctrine - it's what people think it says and whether it is literal or metaphorical.



No, not yet.

Exactly the point expounded by st. augustine of hippo in civitas dei - the intimate relationship between the 'city of god' and the 'city of man'. While he did not give a formal political treatise, he nevertheless alluded to a polity that is driven by a sort of christian paternalistic ethic.

 

[Coyote]

Not sure of your point. Using a Christian Theological premise you get "natural and inalienable rights of man". Using an Islamic theological premise you get

Not true. That came out of the Enlightenment which repudiated many traditional interpretations of Christian doctrine. Since Islam has only now going through it's "Enlightenment" period there is no way to know yet where Islamic theology will lead.

 

[numinus]

Germany was a secular government at the time of nazism. So was South Africa.
so these aren't "politico-religious" organizations.
try again.

Do you need me to repost the wiki article or are you just intellectually stumped you would rather pretend it wasn't there - same with your golden rule nonsense?

 

[Coyote]

exactly!
there is no golden rule in Islam. there is no belief in equality, only muslims and the lesser. that's hard for some Westerners to understand. brain block or something.

Untrue.

"None of you truly believes until he wishes for his brother what he wishes for himself." Number 13 of Imam "Al-Nawawi's Forty Hadiths."

 

[numinus]

you assume what I am doing? actually it's not interesting enough for me to pay attention.
the golden rule doesn't apply to Islam because the Quran (which trumps Hadith) specifically holds muslims above any other religious group.

But it is ok to quote hadith when it suits you, eh? Even when hadith contradicts the five pillars, which are the FUNDAMENTAL PRINCIPLES OF ISLAM, hmmm?

 

[jb_1430]

http://www.asia-religion.net/Asiatische/caodai_A-way.htm

ISLAM:

"I was not sent to curse the infidels but to have mercy on mankind." (Hadith 325)

What the hell kind of cite is that? "Haddith 325? Which haddith? Which volume? A search on google for "I was not sent to curse the infidels but to have mercy on mankind" and you get TWO results, both the CAODAI site.
Unfortunately, "slay the idolaters" and "9:5" gets 11,800 search results. Although, I do appreciate the efforts of californias new age "CaoDaist". Although Im not sure what the hell a caodaist is but I bet many Muslims wouldnt consider them Muslims.

 

[bewitched]

What 10,000 attacks?

When you exclude those occuring in a country under foreign invasion and occupation, how many are we talking about, where, and when?

There are a number of different recognized terrorist organizations and though currently the majority are Islamist, many are ethnic, nationalist and of other religions.

Your statement is far too broad to assign responsibility.

look at the list at the bottom and you tell me. more than half are in un-invaded (which isn't an accurate statement, we didn't invade anywhere) places. and these are all Islamic acts of violence.
www.thereligionofpeace.com

 

[bewitched]

Do you need me to repost the wiki article or are you just intellectually stumped you would rather pretend it wasn't there - same with your golden rule nonsense?

show me where Germany and South Africa are non-secular.

 

[Coyote]

Yes, the so-called white man's freedom.

Or haven't you heard of the pacification of the american continent (and almost everywhere for that matter), slavery and apartheid?

Get a grip.

Exactly - wasn't all that justified under a divine mandate - Manifest Destiny?

 

[bewitched]

But it is ok to quote hadith when it suits you, eh? Even when hadith contradicts the five pillars, which are the FUNDAMENTAL PRINCIPLES OF ISLAM, hmmm?

hadiths are after the fact rules put into place. the Quran is what most muslims follow. fact is, Islam is not peaceful and has declared war on the US. did you miss that part?
do you want to take up arms with them and fight the US?

 

[numinus]

What the hell kind of cite is that? "Haddith 325? Which haddith? Which volume? A search on google for "I was not sent to curse the infidels but to have mercy on mankind" and you get TWO results, both the CAODAI site.
Unfortunately, "slay the idolaters" and "9:5" gets 11,800 search results. Although, I do appreciate the efforts of californias new age "CaoDaist". Although Im not sure what the hell a caodaist is but I bet many Muslims wouldnt consider them Muslims.

LMAO. Maybe you need to buy the book listed as a references. LMAO some more.

And what does your google search say about apartheid and nazism, eh?

 

[bewitched]

Untrue.

"None of you truly believes until he wishes for his brother what he wishes for himself." Number 13 of Imam "Al-Nawawi's Forty Hadiths."

only brothers are considered to be other muslims.
non-muslims are not included in this group of "brothers".

 

[Coyote]

do you even know what those verses mean or apply to?
the translation isn't "all men" and it refers to respect but there are rules that apply to this verse, and that are the principles that have nothing to do with equality.
have you ever practiced Islam?
in practice there is no such thing as equality.

That is incorrect. In practice it depends on how you choose to interpret it.

That is the same with Christianity and that is why there are thousands of sects post-reformation.

 

[Coyote]

only brothers are considered to be other muslims.
non-muslims are not included in this group of "brothers".

Depends on how and who is interpreting.

Christian compassion was once limited to Catholics.