Understanding the Enemy

[Coyote]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_South_Africa_in_the_Apartheid_era

There are numerous distinct differences between segregation and apartheid:

Segregation was a more elastic strategy which was not officially concurrent with religious ideas; apartheid was ostensibly based on a Christian National dogma of the 'calling' and 'mission' of Afrikanerdom.

As for nazism, it was clearly propelled by propaganda. And guess what sort of imagery and symbolism provided the fuel for nazi propaganda, eh?

Interesting ... I hadn't realized that. Good find.

 

[numinus]

those are government regulations that void human rights.
I think you are confusing the sides.

I am not but apparently you are.

We are talking of POLITICO-RELIGIOUS organizations. Clearly, nazism and proponents of apartheid are such organizations.

 

[numinus]

Interesting ... I hadn't realized that. Good find.

Political science class. I remember my lessons.

 

[numinus]

this is typical of Islamic sympathizers, they can't help it. and I don't mean that in a spiteful or demeaning way.
the same way Westerner sympathizers are mindset so are muslims, only with different intent. and one cannot know the enemy until they stop sympathizing with the enemy.

I haven't seen you defend your golden rule nonsense yet. Do you intend to jump from one argument to another hoping that people wouldn't notice?

 

[AlicornsPrayer]

My personal judgement of the coyote based upon his writings on the group.

Funny....But I don't see HER saying any such thing herself in her posts.

Just because she doesn't agree with your viewpoint, doesn't make her anti-anything, especially in regards to her feeling about America.

That's your projections of wishful thinking about those you disagree with. Nothing more.

One of the basic fundamentals of being an American, is having the right to disagree with one's country or fellow citizens on any number of issues. That's part of our freedoms here...To have the freedom to vocally disagree with those who make our laws, live in our communities, and that try to influence our thoughts...

So if anything...She's showing her PRO-Americanism...By freely expressing her opinions and thoughts that run contrary to your own. A right she has, by being an American. She can disagree all she wants...Does in no way make her anti-American or 'loves to hate America' period.

 

[Coyote]

My personal judgement of the coyote based upon his writings on the group.

Oh? Please point out where I have in any way indicated I hate America. I am most curious.

The most common rhetorical ploy of ignorance is to start accusing the other side of being anti-American or American haters or God haters or ant-Christian or unpatriotic.

 

[numinus]

Oh? Please point out where I have in any way indicated I hate America. I am most curious.

The most common rhetorical ploy of ignorance is to start accusing the other side of being anti-American or American haters or God haters or ant-Christian or unpatriotic.

They might as well resort to strawman arguments since they haven't gained an inch in all other avenues of debate.

 

[bewitched]

Of course one must be able to identify the enemy first, and you have thus far failed to do so.

who is the enemy?
who was responsible for 911?

 

[Coyote]

Well, its the ones who interpret the text literally that are causing the problem so I am critical of the text. If they were applying some tortured interpretation of the text to conclude a duty to wage jihad to establish the Islamic caliphate, I wouldnt be critical of the text because it was their tortured interpretation of it that got them to their conclusion. Thats why I am not critical of Christian doctrine (as written in the bible) for the crusades and the inquisitions. That wasnt christian doctrine, that was catholic doctrine. It was catholic doctrine that ordained centuries of Kings with gods authority to rule. It was the doctrine of the bible that was used in the reformation to eliminate authority ordained by God according to the catholic church. First it was simply taken over by other denominations to ordain the king with divine authority, then in the US it was put with the people. "My kingdom is not of this world", as opposed to "[12.40] ... judgment is only Allah's; He has commanded that you shall not serve aught but Him"

Christian doctrine and Catholic doctrine are one and the same. For ages - Catholocism WAS Christianity and the two were inseperable in fact, are inseperable. It is no more, no less then Protestant doctrine, or any of a number of Christian sects. To argue otherwise would mean you would have to examine Sufi, Shia, Sunni and a host of other Islamic sects and determine which is the "real" Islam. They all are.

Christian doctrine was used to justify atrocities. What you are doing is making a seperate standard for Christianity (allowing it a "reformation" or differing standards of interpretation) but you are unwilling to extend such a standard to Islam.

How many times in the Bible does a pissed off God mandate that he and only he shall be worshipped and his followers exorted to kill, decimate and destroy rivals?

Not only that, but supposedly the Bible prophesies an earthly Kingdom where heaven will come down to earth forever. God's throne will be on the earth throughout eternity. The throne promised to David (1 Chronicles 17:10-14) will be established forever, in Jerusalem. The Kingdom begins when the King, Jesus Christ, returns to earth (Zechariah 13:8-14:9.)

He will rule for 1000 years and then, the Bible tells us, the present heavens and earth will be destroyed and there will be a new heaven and earth that is perfect and holy. And how is this going to happen? Through the violence of men in God's name because someone has to prepare the way for God's return.

It doesn't matter what is exactly said in the doctrine - it's what people think it says and whether it is literal or metaphorical.

Ever read "Common Sense" by Thomas Paine? Other than the Bible, there was probably nothing more widely read in the 1776-87 period in the US than Paines little pamphlet.

No, not yet.

 

[Coyote]

who is the enemy?
who was responsible for 911?

A handful of terrorists in a couple of airplanes.

 

[bewitched]

I am not but apparently you are.

We are talking of POLITICO-RELIGIOUS organizations. Clearly, nazism and proponents of apartheid are such organizations.

Germany was a secular government at the time of nazism. So was South Africa.
so these aren't "politico-religious" organizations.
try again.

 

[AlicornsPrayer]

They might as well resort to strawman arguments since they haven't gained an inch in all other avenues of debate.

I don't quite see it that way myself...I actually see it as their emulating those they say they are opposed to and keep posting about..

Their whole argument here has been about how extremist Muslims don't tolerate those that think differently then themselves or 'smoother freedoms of people'...

Calling anyone who's responded to them as 'anti-American' or 'hates America' is in my opinion no different then those mind-sets in the extremist Muslims they are condemning of being as intolerant of those they disagree with...By trying to demonize those that don't agree with them by labeling them negatively. Basically saying the other person doesn't belong because they think differently or are the enemy through that demonizing label.

They've become like those they are against...If not in actions, at least in words and thoughts.

 

[bewitched]

A handful of terrorists in a couple of airplanes.

and the 10000 terrorism attacks post 911?

 

[Coyote]

The ideology behind the hatred must be addressed and open to criticism. I dont hate the hater, I hate the ideology that makes him hate. This pass you wish to give the Islamic Fundamentalist only ensures the ideology will continue in our politically correct world.

This is dishonest.

You are grouping all of Islam under the umbrella of "Islamic Fundamentalism".

It's not - no more then all of Christianity can be grouped under "Christian Fundamentalism".

I don't believe she is giving any sort of "pass" to extremists and their actions.

 

[bewitched]

I haven't seen you defend your golden rule nonsense yet. Do you intend to jump from one argument to another hoping that people wouldn't notice?

you assume what I am doing? actually it's not interesting enough for me to pay attention.
the golden rule doesn't apply to Islam because the Quran (which trumps Hadith) specifically holds muslims above any other religious group.