Understanding the Enemy

[numinus]

so if you are not muslim then what are you basing your posts on?

Facts and logic.

I have practiced and studied Islam for over 40 years and can tell you that you are incorrect on all your posts.

And I have lived and worked among them.

Frankly, I can see where you are coming from if it took you 40 years to realize faulty logic.

jizya is not a tax. it's a payment to survive, kinda like blood money in the Italian mafia.

And if you had spent your 40 years studying a variety of subjects, like world history, you would realize that it is no different from the standard practices in COLONIALISM - feudal and capitalist west being notoriously proficient at.

you don't have any idea of the things you post, really. I think you just like to hear yourself talk.

Not hard at all - seeing as no one has given anything close to a rebuttal to my arguments.

further, you seem to hate America

Only when her representatives behave in a manner that is utterly devoid of principles.

and sympathize with Islam which is violent and deadly.

Only when here adherents behave in a manner that complies with principles.

if you don't understand 911 and the theology behind it you might want to do some research instead of preaching bulllss****.

TERRORISM IS A POLITICAL PHENOMENON. THERE IS NO THEOLOGY BEHIND TERRORISM.

 

[numinus]

ignorance is dense?

Something wrong with my english? The sentence is grammatically and figuratively correct, as far as I'm concerned.

goat-herder logic?

The amount of logic necessary to keep dumb animals compliant and predictable.

there's an argument lost a long time ago.

I've told you that Ossama and his followers hold degrees and are well educated yet you insist that they have goat-herder mentality.

And educated people do not use simple tricks to keep the dumb ones compliant and predictable, hmmm?

if you don't understand the enemy then you will be killed. sorry. be prepared, 911 was not the "big" attack. it isn't planned for another few years. and with your lack of knowledge you will probably be on the front line of death.

I have already told you - the terrorist attack on us soil was meant to draw out a disproportionately large adversary in a kind of confrontation of the terrorist's own choosing.

The logic is demonstrated plainly in hunting and bringing down a wild pachyderm. It works all the time because the pachyderm is DUMB.

 

[bewitched]

sorry, you display neither facts or logic.

 

[bewitched]

Fa .



And I have lived and worked among them.

.

and where was this?

 

[numinus]

wrong.
there is not a small minority of fundamentalists or moderates or radicals. Islam is one theology and one brotherhood.

There is no social, political or theological order in existence that is capable of binding 1.2 billion souls in a coherent and homogenous whole.

You have absolutely no academic discernment if you subscribe to this absurd rhetoric.

since you are not a muslim you cannot speak for the subscription or anything else that is Islamic.

Is it even necessary to point out the faulty logic in this statement????

 

[numinus]

and where was this?

Southeast asia.

 

[numinus]

sorry, you display neither facts or logic.

That you fail to see facts and logic is quite telling, indeed.

 

[jb_1430]

...kiss my ass towel head.

Well done jb, you have not just lost the argument in spectacular fashion but also shown yourself to be totally inadequate at debating.

Actually, I won the debate. I guess I lost the derogatory comments contest and you have demonstrated your purpose here.

Good god there isn't an iota of light in that dark place you call your mind!

Are you illiterate as well?...
I can already see screws in that archaic contraption you call your brain coming loose....
There it is - your idiocy made plain for everyones ridicule.

You are obviously baffled senseless by now.

I feel sorry for your calcified ignorance....
My 5 year old has a better grasp of this logic than you. Perhaps you should be talking to her.

jb1430,
You are either a hypocrite or a complete *****...

Good god your ignorance is dense.

 

[jb_1430]

I have already told you - the terrorist attack on us soil was meant to draw out a disproportionately large adversary in a kind of confrontation of the terrorist's own choosing.

The logic is demonstrated plainly in hunting and bringing down a wild pachyderm. It works all the time because the pachyderm is DUMB.

So you think that when Bin Laden complained in 98 about the US "occupying the lands of Islam", "turning its bases in the Peninsula into a spearhead through which to fight the neighboring Muslim peoples", "continuing aggression against the Iraqi people", "humiliating its people, terrorizing its neighbors", "the Americans are once against trying to repeat the horrific massacres..." and "their eagerness to destroy Iraq, ..." and called upon Muslims "to kill the Americans", what he really meant was "may I have some more please Sir" ?

No one argues today about three facts that are known to everyone; we will list them, in order to remind everyone:

First, for over seven years the United States has been occupying the lands of Islam in the holiest of places, the Arabian Peninsula, plundering its riches, dictating to its rulers, humiliating its people, terrorizing its neighbors, and turning its bases in the Peninsula into a spearhead through which to fight the neighboring Muslim peoples... The best proof of this is the Americans' continuing aggression against the Iraqi people..

Second, despite the great devastation inflicted on the Iraqi people by the crusader-Zionist alliance, and despite the huge number of those killed, which has exceeded 1 million... despite all this, the Americans are once against trying to repeat the horrific massacres...

Third, if the Americans' aims behind these wars are religious and economic, the aim is also to serve the Jews' petty state...The best proof of this is their eagerness to destroy Iraq, ...

On that basis, and in compliance with Allah's order, we issue the following fatwa to all Muslims: The ruling to kill the Americans...
http://www.fas.org/irp/world/para/docs/980223-fatwa.htm

 

[Coyote]

Actually, I won the debate. I guess I lost the derogatory comments contest and you have demonstrated your purpose here.

I don't think so. You are judging an entire doctrine based on the interpretation of it's fundamentalist extreme. You do not apply the same discernment to any other doctrine.

For derogatory comments, you had your share too from earlier in the thread and here.

Kiss my ass towel head!

But I understand the need to insert ones head into the ground and just yell "NOTHING RELIGIOUS ABOUT IT."

LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!! I guess that must be one of those Maxims in military science without "any practical value". I hope all the Islamic terrorists are just as smart as you.

WTF are you babbling about? I present the writings of Muslims and direct quotes from the Koran and haddiths. I dont rely on a western point of view and present only the views of Muslims. Like I say over and over and still it doesnt sink in with those of you in some weird state of denial, my and our views are irrelevant. THEIR views regarding religion control their actions, not ours. And when I do present those views I have these idiots trying to apply western concepts of hermeneutics to Islam. What a freakin joke.

 

[Coyote]

So you think that when Bin Laden complained in 98 about the US "occupying the lands of Islam", "turning its bases in the Peninsula into a spearhead through which to fight the neighboring Muslim peoples", "continuing aggression against the Iraqi people", "humiliating its people, terrorizing its neighbors", "the Americans are once against trying to repeat the horrific massacres..." and "their eagerness to destroy Iraq, ..." and called upon Muslims "to kill the Americans", what he really meant was "may I have some more please Sir" ?

No. It was meant to stir up angry, disenfranchised people with a grievance people to support his cause on the one hand, and it was bravado aimed at the U.S. on the other. The more he can get people stirred up, and the more he can con the larger powers into believing he actually is powerful the more powerful he becomes. And if we attack, all points go to him.

And that is one thing that Americans don't get and it's very evident in the failures of our policies in the Arab world. We don't understand (and don't seem to want to) the culture we are dealing with. We don't understand that rhetoric meant for public consumption is different then what goes on face to face behind closed door. We don't understand the place of rhetoric in that culture one little bit.

 

[jb_1430]

There is no social, political or theological order in existence that is capable of binding 1.2 billion souls in a coherent and homogenous whole.

True, but there is a "political" and "theological order" in the Koran and Haddiths that has managed to bind 10s of thousands in a coherent whole, who insist that the world can be ruled ONLY, by what "allah has revealed" and are willing to "slay them where you find them" when it comes to anybody who they percieve to be in their way of obtaining those goals.
Im thrilled that it only binds these 10s of thousands, instead of the 1.2 billion, but Im still critical of the doctrine that does bind them. I would be critical of the doctrine if it only binded together the 19 hijackers and no one else. The written doctrine remains the same regardless of how many people adhere to that doctrine.

 

[jb_1430]

No. It was meant to stir up angry, disenfranchised people with a grievance people to support his cause on the one hand, and it was bravado aimed at the U.S. on the other. The more he can get people stirred up, and the more he can con the larger powers into believing he actually is powerful the more powerful he becomes. And if we attack, all points go to him.

His support among those people went up after he attacked the US, and began to decline since our invasion of Iraq, and continues thru to today.

 

[Coyote]

His support among those people went up after he attacked the US, and began to decline since our invasion of Iraq, and continues thru to today.

Of course. It was the perfect Samson vs. Goliath (Satan) in their eyes. But most Muslims don't support the killing of innocents and Al Queda and OBL have been repeatedly denounced by numerous and respected Islamic clerics and organizations.

 

[bewitched]

Of course. It was the perfect Samson vs. Goliath (Satan) in their eyes. But most Muslims don't support the killing of innocents and Al Queda and OBL have been repeatedly denounced by numerous and respected Islamic clerics and organizations.

that's not true.
most muslims do support the killing of non-muslims because that's sharia law. so take the entire population of Saudi, because it's illegal to be Christian in that country, the penalty is death.

can you name the respected clerics and organizations that denounce AQ and Ossama?