Torture; SOMEone's Gotta Pay!!

[top gun]

A few instances of waterboarding (which I do not consider torture) before the process was ended hardly means we torture anyone.

That's unfortunate then because the Geneva Convention, International Law, Army Field Manual and about a hundred other documents that go way, way back in time ALL say that yes it is.

This isn't really that hard of a thing for one to get their arms around. If you wouldn't want to have yourself, your father, mother, brother, sister, son or daughter treated like this... then it's torture.

God bless you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLL7O9hIloA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbDgTXxoQvA

 

[BigRob]

That's unfortunate then because the Geneva Convention, International Law, Army Field Manual and about a hundred other documents that go way, way back in time ALL say that yes it is.

They say it would be to do that to a POW, not some non-state terror group. The part that has been interpreted to include these non-state actors the US has never ratified and never agreed to. I think it is a forfeit of sovereignty to cave in on this, and I further think that our current program is better than shipping these people off to a foreign site for interrogation, which is exactly what will happen when GITMO closes.

This isn't really that hard of a thing for one to get their arms around. If you wouldn't want to have yourself, your father, mother, brother, sister, son or daughter treated like this... then it's torture.

God bless you.[/COLOR]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLL7O9hIloA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbDgTXxoQvA

I would prefer that my family not be yelled at either, but that is not torture.

I would also prefer that the family is kept safer from future threats, and if that involves preventing someone picked up on a battlefield from sleeping, then so be it.

 

[laughinatreps]

Says you and others who have no idea.
Since we have to personally see everything now, I guess every point you have ever made is mostly irrelevant.

as is yours, based upon all of your defense of the hypocrite GW.....like how that works genius? sigh ****in fools.....

Oh BTW, still waitin for that BAN Oh God Of Political Forums........thought so.....

 

[rushhannity]

Well I guess I`m old school. If it threatens national security and the safety of the American people, I say do what ever it takes. Torture or whatever.

 

[BigRob]

as is yours, based upon all of your defense of the hypocrite GW.....like how that works genius? sigh ****in fools.....

My argument is based upon known evidence, not the empty rhetoric of "we torture."

Oh BTW, still waitin for that BAN Oh God Of Political Forums........thought so.....

Why would you be banned? I know this probably makes you upset so you cannot yell about "censorship", but no one is banned unless they continually break the rules.

 

[laughinatreps]

My argument is based upon known evidence, not the empty rhetoric of "we torture."



Why would you be banned? I know this probably makes you upset so you cannot yell about "censorship", but no one is banned unless they continually break the rules.

Well, isn't that a nice suprise!!!!! No one banned UNLESS.........yet the rules are continually monitored by you, roflmao!!!!!!!! care to try again genius?

Such a sad state of affairs.....

 

[BigRob]

Well, isn't that a nice suprise!!!!! No one banned UNLESS.........yet the rules are continually monitored by you, roflmao!!!!!!!! care to try again genius?

Such a sad state of affairs.....

Actually the rules are monitored by a group of moderators who make a collective decisions before banning anyone... don't let facts get in the way of your opinions though.

 

[top gun]

They say it would be to do that to a POW, not some non-state terror group. The part that has been interpreted to include these non-state actors the US has never ratified and never agreed to. I think it is a forfeit of sovereignty to cave in on this, and I further think that our current program is better than shipping these people off to a foreign site for interrogation, which is exactly what will happen when GITMO closes.

Dude, you're a good person. You cannot in any sense of reality look at video of waterboarding and NOT see that is is obviously beyond any doubt whatsoever a brand of torture. IT'S DROWNING A PERSON AND THEN STOPPING IT JUST BEFORE THEY DIE... AND REPEATING OVER & OVER!

This is about the treatment of human beings no matter how bad. We have mass murderers and child rapists in jail all over the place that are every bit as bad as your "not officially POW'S". What are you thinking!

It's like saying there's no "official signed by all parties" agreement that American soldiers invading on foreign soil can't be tortured in any number of terrible heinous ways... so if other countries or groups do it to them, well that's just a murky area of law. Come on my friend!

I would prefer that my family not be yelled at either, but that is not torture.

I would also prefer that the family is kept safer from future threats, and if that involves preventing someone picked up on a battlefield from sleeping, then so be it.

You do understand DROWNING someone is maybe just a tad bit worse than yelling or imposing sleep deprivation on someone I'm very sure. What's happening here is it's the old "if my side does it no matter how bad... we're the good guy & it's right & justifiable".

Well it's not... and any reasonable person that looks at any video of waterboarding actually being done can easily make the judgment that waterboarding in not some splash a little water in someone's face it's the attempted drowning of a restrained prisoner in custody before any legal hearing or trial whatsoever... and it's blatantly wrong.

 

[BigRob]

Dude, you're a good person. You cannot in any sense of reality look at video of waterboarding and NOT see that is is obviously beyond any doubt whatsoever a brand of torture. IT'S DROWNING A PERSON AND THEN STOPPING IT JUST BEFORE THEY DIE... AND REPEATING OVER & OVER!

It is simulated drowning, the danger of death is quite small. On top of that, the CIA (that we know of) has only done waterboarding on a total of 3 people. This is not some rampant procedure that is used daily.

This is about the treatment of human beings no matter how bad. We have mass murderers and child rapists in jail all over the place that are every bit as bad as your "not officially POW'S". What are you thinking!

If those child rapists had potential information that could prevent another 9/11 attack, it might be a different story.

It's like saying there's no "official signed by all parties" agreement that American soldiers invading on foreign soil can't be tortured in any number of terrible heinous ways... so if other countries or groups do it to them, well that's just a murky area of law. Come on my friend!

It is a murky area of law, and it was left that way intentionally. I am not saying other people do it so we should as well, I am just saying it is not illegal, and it is rarely employed. So, in my view, the argument to shut down GITMO among things because we "torture" is not accurate.

You do understand DROWNING someone is maybe just a tad bit worse than yelling or imposing sleep deprivation on someone I'm very sure. What's happening here is it's the old "if my side does it no matter how bad... we're the good guy & it's right & justifiable". '

There has been waterboarding in three known cases, and the response to that was a bill from Congress that would have eliminated ever other technique that the CIA has. There is oversight, the oversight committees are briefed on what goes, and it fits within the parameters of the law.

Well it's not... and any reasonable person that looks at any video of waterboarding actually being done can easily make the judgment that waterboarding in not some splash a little water in someone's face it's the attempted drowning of a restrained prisoner in custody before any legal hearing or trial whatsoever... and it's blatantly wrong.[/COLOR]

I get that waterboarding is not fun, but to use that as the argument that we "torture" is not accurate in my view given the very limited number of instances we have actually used the tactic.

 

[top gun]

It is simulated drowning, the danger of death is quite small.

Good to know.

We can now all understand that when an American soldier is captured and has bamboo shoots shoved under their fingernails or their hair pulled out by the roots this is not torture.

The other side has not signed a form saying that it is... and there is actually only a slight chance of death... whattheheck.

Very sad... very,very sad.

If those child rapists had potential information that could prevent another 9/11 attack, it might be a different story.

The end does not justify the means in life. This is not some world like in the movie Minority Report where we maim and injure... maybe kill, human beings because "they might do something bad in the future."

We were once a nation of laws that was often admired for at least trying to uphold the moral highground... and we will once again achieve that status even though there are obviously some that think this is really just an unnecessary inconvenience.

I get that waterboarding is not fun, but to use that as the argument that we "torture" is not accurate in my view given the very limited number of instances we have actually used the tactic.

Not fun? Really? Just not fun? I don't know this looks kinda fun to me. My best friends son Scott is in Iraq as we speak. God I hope that if he were to be captured those holding him had more of a sense of what's just "not fun" than you apparently do.

I understand your position completely. This is just "not fun".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9G2wZ5A2zRA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbDgTXxoQvA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlLfRCkZuxQ

 

[Mr. Shaman]

The people responsible for the actions at this prisons were the soldiers who carried them out with no orders to do so.

....And, BUSHCO does support your message.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Give me a good reason as to why you feel you need to know and understand interrogation methods.....

Gee, maybe because I'm financing them.....tactics that have a direct-impact on my moral-credit, worldwide???

Do you "conservatives" ever question your investments.....or, do you simply assume (since there are Dems) you'll eventually be bailed-out....no matter how badly you screw-up?

 

[Mr. Shaman]

I hope that at the least with a new administration of a different Party more facts will come out than already have and the American people, even Bush supporters, are able to say many things were very, very wrong to do.

Maybe a little truthfully tarnish will prevent a future President from playing so loose & free with the truth in either Party.

That already exists. It's called Checks & Balances (....sometimes, oversight); those inconvenient, little speed-bumps that're postponed by The Idiot Son's Executive-Decisions.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

I find this all quite fascinating! I remember the febrile cries for vengeance following 9/11, the near hysterical ranting and wailing for revenge echoed over the whole media from all Americans from all classes and all walks of life. Well, you got what you asked for.

....And, to all's surprise & disappointment, the end-result was NOTHING like a John Wayne movie!!!!!

Ain't that America? ​

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Then how is it that the high-ranking officers cited in post #34 say that we do torture?

BigRob has the magical-ability to know what's really goin'-on.