Tax the Rich!

[TruthSeeker]

That's why I think we should end the battle. Give Progressives perpetual control over 100% of government and let them do whatever they like, wherever they like, whenever they like. Such a period in history would make the Dark Ages look like a veritable Utopia in comparison.

What the "progressives" are too dense to understand is that their insane beliefs and programs are nothing more than a one-way ticket to SELF-DESTRUCTION.

As I have stated many times, I am voting for Obama because I want Barry to finish the "job" he started.

My family, and many of our friends, are feverishly preparing ourselves for Barry's "final solution".

Vote for Barry. Let the massive cleansing of the gene pool BEGIN!

 

[Dr.Who]

Who, reality is weighted toward those at the top. This poor mouthing it is really ridiculous.

huh?

The rich benefit tremendously from this crazy plan.

The lower paid benefit by a greater percentage.

You clearly demonstrate that you don't care about the deficit, because this plan is going to send it skyrocketing.

On a practical level revenues can increase when taxes are lowered. On a principled level the money belongs to the people who earned it and whenever possible it should stay with the people who earned it.

Again, you're taking bread from the mouth of one man, and a vacation for his pet for another. Even if you dismiss that as "an appeal to emotion" , do you realize that you're playing with fire in terms of societal stability?

.

Actually all men get less money taken from them.

 

[Pepper]

The democratic process-we are allowed to vote for those who represent us. If we dislike what they do, we can vote them out. If they act illegally, we can impeach or prosecute them. You have more political freedom than the average person in any time in history, and you use it to ***** because our government doesn't live up to the ideals of a sociopath who wrote a few novels. Too funny.

 

[Rick]

The democratic process-we are allowed to vote for those who represent us. If we dislike what they do, we can vote them out. If they act illegally, we can impeach or prosecute them. You have more political freedom than the average person in any time in history, and you use it to ***** because our government doesn't live up to the ideals of a sociopath who wrote a few novels. Too funny.

Anyone have any idea what that brain fart was about?

 

[Dr.Who]

Anyone have any idea what that brain fart was about?

I was thinking that if it was a response to my comment it did not make sense. So I thought maybe it was a response to someone else's.

In short, No I don't know why it was said.

Pepper, care to explain more and maybe let us know what you are responding to.

 

[Pepper]

Gen complained about being dirt poor, and about being forced to participate in "collectivist policies" because the government had the sole legal use of force.

Maybe my family's story will be instructive. My father was drafted to serve in WWII [which any good libertarian will see for the impressive use of government force that it is ]. He came back to the Oklahoma panhandle to a series of low-wage, dead-end jobs. Including one job where he was held up and robbed at gunpoint.

He decided to take advantage of the GI Bill, a GOVERNMENT funded program. He went to trade school and got a job in the defense industry. He married my mother, and without any help from anyone, they were able to

build a nice home on a large lot

keep themselves and two kids clothed, fed, sheltered, and entertained

send their kids to school after graduation without taking out a single loan

pursue their own interests, including my father's interest in becoming a pilot and owning a plane, and owning a boat so that they could fish as often as they liked

weather two catastrophic illnesses without going bankrupt, thanks to care from Medicare, the VA, and privately paid Medicare supplemental insurance.

The government's GI Bill expenditure was paid back in short order through the higher income taxes my father paid once he had a decent job.

Their kids-my brother and I- now have good incomes, spouses with good incomes, nice homes, can pursue their hobbies, sent their kids to school, and now a third generation of taxpayers is out in the world.

I can say anything I like short of threatening violence to others. I can pursue my dreams. I can make my own way. No government official is holding a gun to my head.

All countries, all societies, are "collectivist". You have more political and personal FREEDOM AND POWER than average person in the history of this planet has ever had.

If you don't realize this, and you're deeply unhappy in this country, then maybe you're just a misfit and you need to work on yourself.

 

[Rick]

Your father sounds like a commendable person. His VA benefits are very legitimate compensation for putting his life at risk in service to the country. Defending the country in wartime is one of the few legitimate activities of the government - almost all libertarians will agree with that.

 

[GenSeneca]

The democratic process-we are allowed to vote for those who represent us.

Every law written is government exercising it's monopoly on the legal use of force. The only legitimate role of government is to protect our individual rights, nothing else. When government passes laws outside of those boundaries, it's using coercion and is therefore violating our individual rights.

If we dislike what they do, we can vote them out.

I don't suppose the phrase, "Tyranny of the Majority" means anything to you... We have the bottom 50% demanding ever increasing amounts of government money and services while at the same time demanding that the top 50% pay for all of it.

If they act illegally, we can impeach or prosecute them.

Unless of course they're tax cheats... Then they just get re-elected.

You have more political freedom than the average person in any time in history...

LOL... That must be one nuanced definition you have for political freedom.

and you use it to ***** because our government doesn't live up to the ideals of a sociopath who wrote a few novels. Too funny.

Ad hominem: attacking the arguer instead of the argument.

Why do you oppose a society based on volitional consent and mutually beneficial exchange?

 

[TruthSeeker]

Better that you guys deal with Pepper. I just can't bring myself to fight with an unarmed man anymore.

 

[GenSeneca]

Gen complained about being dirt poor

I wasn't complaining. You assumed I was well off and would change my political views if I were poor...

It is not the man who has too little, but the man who craves more, that is poor. - Lucius Annaeus Seneca

being forced to participate in "collectivist policies" because the government had the sole legal use of force.

Voluntarily assisting others is charity. Being forced by government to help others is tyranny.

A kingdom founded on injustice never lasts. - Lucius Annaeus Seneca

Maybe my family's story will be instructive.

I would rejoice at seeing access to the welfare state limited to only those who served in the military... Properly compensating those who voluntarily surrender their freedom in order to fulfill the only legitimate function of government, the protection of our individual rights, would be a huge step forward for our country.

Your story certainly didn't persuade me that the millions of people currently sucking at the government teet, who didn't serve in the military, are somehow deserving of government assistance. I see no moral difference between using the force of arms, or the force of law, to coerce another into giving you assistance. Either way, you are robbing the victim not only of his property but of his free will.

There is a noble manner of being poor, and who does not know it will never be rich. - Lucius Annaeus Seneca

I can say anything I like short of threatening violence to others.

Congress shall make no law abridging the freedom of speech... Hopefully that sounds familiar to you. Why do you accept any limits on your right to free speech?

I can pursue my dreams. I can make my own way. No government official is holding a gun to my head.

What if your dream is to keep the products of your labor and only share them as a result of volitional consent and mutually beneficial exchange? You'd soon find a government official holding a gun to your head for pursuing such a dream.

All countries, all societies, are "collectivist".

A society based on volitional consent and mutually beneficial exchange would still be a collectivist society... Except people would retain their free will and not have their rights violated by government's monopoly on the use of force.

You have more political and personal FREEDOM AND POWER than average person in the history of this planet has ever had.

LOL, makes me laugh every time... If you see the growth of government as an expansion of political and personal freedom, then totalitarianism would be total freedom.

If you don't realize this, and you're deeply unhappy in this country, then maybe you're just a misfit and you need to work on yourself.

You seem to be the one deeply unhappy about our country... Complaining about the existence of a wealth gap, complaining about access to health care, and you even complain that there are people who would dare exercise their freedom of speech to oppose using government's monopoly on the use of force to "fix" all the things you complain about.

Here's a radical idea... Find a way to help alleviate the problems you see in society without resorting to the use of legal force. While it's true I also complain about the inequities I see in our society, I'm not the one supporting the use of legal force to coerce others into bending to my will.

 

[Dr.Who]

All countries, all societies, are "collectivist". You have more political and personal FREEDOM AND POWER than average person in the history of this planet has ever had.

Yes all countries are collectivists to one degree or another. Our country is collectivist to the extent that our constitution grants power to the government so that it can protect the rights of all citizens equally. We do not complain about that kind of collectivism.

We do complain when it is beyond the powers given in the constitution, not for the protection of rights, and not for the benefit of all. We almost always mean, when we say collectivism, a situation in which money is being taken from one person or group of people and then given to another. In this situation the gov does not constitutionally have that power, it is not for the protection of rights, and it is not to benefit all equally.

 

[Rick]

Better that you guys deal with Pepper. I just can't bring myself to fight with an unarmed man anymore.

HA HA HA HA HA! Biitchslap Of The Year, nailed down!

 

[Dr.Who]

HA HA HA HA HA! Biitchslap Of The Year, nailed down!

If it was, then it was a personal attack and should be reported (as I have been instructed to do even when I would rather handle things differently). I did not think it technically fit the criteria but it seems that you did.

 

[TruthSeeker]

If it was, then it was a personal attack and should be reported (as I have been instructed to do even when I would rather handle things differently). I did not think it technically fit the criteria but it seems that you did.

Dr.Who, are you going to be the resident tattletale/snitch around here? I thought you were better than that.

There are differences between a "personal attack" and an "observation" and a "biitchslap".

 

[Dr.Who]

Dr.Who, are you going to be the resident tattletale/snitch around here? I thought you were better than that.

There are differences between a "personal attack" and an "observation" and a "biitchslap".

The mods specifically told ME not to handle things my own way.
I don't want to make any reports and I doubt I have ever made more than one or two in the years I have been here until this last week. I will make sure that any post reported meets a technical definition of being rude and directed at a person and an attack in accordance with what little guidance I have seen on the subject.

If it is merely an observation then it will not be an attack even if it is personal. Comments directed at other comments will not be personal. Comments directed at a person but with sufficient explanations of how they are intended to be helpful rather than attacking will not be an attack.

I still expect that there could be a lot of reports and maybe the mods will get fed up with reports and reverse their decision and say that we can simply point out when we see something that is not benefiting the forum. Until then I refuse to ignore too much and my hands are tied to handle things my way. I have been on forums where there is a ton more in the way of personal attacks and on forums where there is a ton less. I am sure you do not want this to be one of the forums with a ton more - it drives people away.

Looking up the definition of a *****slap there is no way it cannot be considered rude and insulting. In fact, it literally is an assault meant the be insulting as well. Figuratively we can assume it is not an assault but is still insulting.

Make all the observations you want (unless of course your observation is that someone has made a personal attack, then you have to report it).

p.s. a tattletale is someone who makes a report because they would get pleasure in seeing someone else get into trouble. A snitch is a person who makes a report because they want to get something out of it - like money. A person who makes a report because they think it will help the situation is neither and a person who makes a report because they want to show the error of the rules is also neither.