Solution to the oil problem

[Sihouette]

Au contraire..

Efforts at education are never wasted efforts and people are talking geothermal...

Yes, they are. Nancy Pelosi cited it specifically amongst solar, wind and hydro.. She runs Congress, or didn't you hear?

But don't think that you're going to get any satisfaction for the changes because they will claim it was their ideas right from the start. Just look at how the right is now taking credit for accepting there is a need for alternative energy when only a few months ago they were claiming that oil would see them through to the end of times.

I could care less who gets credit for what idea and when. The only thing I care about is that we make our nation stronger by cleaning it up and becoming independant and strong again. Geothermal is part of that plan.

Who cares who gets the credit? As long as geothermal happens.

****

More importantly, start learning about nuclear and how all that danger and radioactivity and costs and hassel exists just to run simple steam turbines....just astounding waste and risk...to produce steam...steam...

Now on Highway 395 and look to the left and right all the way up the east side of the Sierra Nevadas. Steam. Coming right out of the ground, without nuclear waste included.

Scientists have been urging officials for years to utilize this safe, clean energy source. Nothing...nada...zip..

BigOil wants tricky energy. Price-fixing energy. Geothermal just won't do.

Let's harvest steam instead of producing it with filth and antiquated, dangerous technologies. Let's stop being embarassed in the 21st Century.

HOW IS ELECTRICITY GENERATED USING GEOTHERMAL ENERGY?

In geothermal power plants steam, heat or hot water from geothermal reservoirs provides the force that spins the turbine generators and produces electricity. The used geothermal water is then returned down an injection well into the reservoir to be reheated, to maintain pressure, and to sustain the reservoir.

There are three kinds of geothermal power plants. The kind we build depends on the temperatures and pressures of a reservoir.

A "dry'" steam reservoir produces steam but very little water. The steam is piped directly into a "dry" steam power plant to provide the force to spin the turbine generator. The largest dry steam field in the world is The Geysers, about 90 miles north of San Francisco. Production of electricity started at The Geysers in 1960, at what has become the most successful alternative energy project in history.


A geothermal reservoir that produces mostly hot water is called a "hot water reservoir" and is used in a "flash" power plant. Water ranging in temperature from 300 - 700 degrees F is brought up to the surface through the production well where, upon being released from the pressure of the deep reservoir, some of the water flashes into steam in a 'separator.' The steam then powers the turbines.


A reservoir with temperatures between 250 - 360 degrees F is not hot enough to flash enough steam but can still be used to produce electricity in a "binary" power plant. In a binary system the geothermal water is passed through a heat exchanger, where its heat is transferred into a second (binary) liquid, such as isopentane, that boils at a lower temperature than water. When heated, the binary liquid flashes to vapor, which, like steam, expands across and spins the turbine blades. The vapor is then recondensed to a liquid and is reused repeatedly. In this closed loop cycle, there are no emissions to the air...

.. WHAT ARE SOME OF THE ADVANTAGES OF USING GEOTHERMAL ENERGY TO GENERATE ELECTRICITY?

Clean. Geothermal power plants, like wind and solar power plants, do not have to burn fuels to manufacture steam to turn the turbines. Generating electricity with geothermal energy helps to conserve nonrenewable fossil fuels, and by decreasing the use of these fuels, we reduce emissions that harm our atmosphere. There is no smoky air around geothermal power plants -- in fact some are built in the middle of farm crops and forests, and share land with cattle and local wildlife.

For ten years, Lake County California, home to five geothermal electric power plants, has been the first and only county to meet the most stringent governmental air quality standards in the U.S.


Easy on the land. The land area required for geothermal power plants is smaller per megawatt than for almost every other type of power plant. Geothermal installations don't require damming of rivers or harvesting of forests -- and there are no mine shafts, tunnels, open pits, waste heaps or oil spills.


Reliable. Geothermal power plants are designed to run 24 hours a day, all year. A geothermal power plant sits right on top of its fuel source. It is resistant to interruptions of power generation due to weather, natural disasters or political rifts that can interrupt transportation of fuels.


Flexible. Geothermal power plants can have modular designs, with additional units installed in increments when needed to fit growing demand for electricity.


Keeps Dollars at Home. Money does not have to be exported to import fuel for geothermal power plants. Geothermal "fuel'" - like the sun and the wind - is always where the power plant is; economic benefits remain in the region and there are no fuel price shocks.


Helps Developing Countries Grow. Geothermal projects can offer all of the above benefits to help developing countries grow without pollution. And installations in remote locations can raise the standard of living and quality of life by bringing electricity to people far from "electrified" population centers...
Source: http://geothermal.marin.org/pwrheat.html

Source: http://www.waterencyclopedia.com/Ge-Hy/Geothermal-Energy.html

Here are some gals relaxing in the effluent of a geothermal plant. Imagine doing that at a nuclear plant? They've been trying to clean up one nuclear plant I know of and have been at it for three decades and still aren't totally satisfied with the results..

Geothermal. Look it up.

 

[UShadItComing]

Sihouette- You have a bone in your teeth on this geothermal thing but you're not looking at reality. Not to say that it can't be utilized but that it's not what you are trying to make it. Canadians understand so catch some solace in that at least. Yes, geothermal is part of the solution but a small part.

But good, you are starting to care and that's unamerican of you. Just understand that nowadays being unamerican has become a wise and good thing.

 

[UShadItComing]

Sihouette- Look at this.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/08/04/obamas-energy-plan-calls_n_116794.html

Now who cares about what this black man is saying?

 

[Andy]

I just found the site where it said that 42% of Americans don't have healthcare insurance. Rob's the one who put up the 130 million figure. I"m just working on digging out some truth to find out how the 42% figure could be true.

Hint: It isn't. As Rob correctly pointed out, they have invested interest in their cause, and they don't have to be even remotely connected to reality. The census bureau is more accurate.

Well we know that many Americans buy inadequate insurance which won't protect them in the event of some costly medical procedures being required and I would suppose that their insurance coverage is limited in many other ways too. This 42% estimate may have something to do with the fact that if you aren't covered in any eventuality then you can't be considered to be covered.

Huh? So your theory is that if the medical insurance doesn't cover every single remote possibility, then it isn't 'adequate' enough? Everyone would have to have a billion dollar policy, and no one anywhere, even the government would be able to cover that.

Proper and adequate to me would mean that your insurance covers you for all eventualities, as does mine in Canada.

Now this I have to look into. I was going to say that's hard to believe, but then given how many Canadians fly to the US for care, that does make sense. No government could afford that kind of blanket care unless there was some cost limits. Now I see why there are waiting lists, and people how have waited 3 years for basic surgery, and a shortage of doctors. Yeah actually, it all makes sense now.

I'll stick with the American way. I get quality medical care now, and if I have to pay for it, I will.

Rob originally gave me the reason why the WHO placed your country at #37 and then finallly supplied the real reasons which were several, thereby proving he was lying. So that ends that. Now I'm interested in this new informatin because it appears that the WHO didn't dig deep enough into the ratholes to find out just how bad it is in the land of the gun.

See, you already assumed the answer, without even looking at the evidence. You are so closed minded to alternative view points, you refuse to even consider the idea that WHO or the Health Management Congress, isn't correct. This is as bad as the ICBC, where tons of evidence, even your own evidence, contracted you, but when pressed on it, just claimed everyone was lying. Why are you here if you refuse to consider evidence? Just to spread your one-sided unsupportable view without regard to facts?

Further, Rob and I both gave correct answers. One answer, isn't mutually exclusive of the other. You don't just play this "simple debate style" answers to complex questions. Rob was absolutely correct. You on the other hand, haven't made a single supportable point yet.

 

[UShadItComing]

Hint: It isn't. As Rob correctly pointed out, they have invested interest in their cause, and they don't have to be even remotely connected to reality. The census bureau is more accurate.

Could be the US gov is covering up to save your country embarrassment in the eyes of the world.

Huh? So your theory is that if the medical insurance doesn't cover every single remote possibility, then it isn't 'adequate' enough? Everyone would have to have a billion dollar policy, and no one anywhere, even the government would be able to cover that.

Ours covers pretty well everything I think. In any case, no matter who you are, you get sick or you get injured and you get medical attention. We don't believe in turnign people away and we believe in being proactive. We look after expecting mothers because we don't believe a high infant mortality rate is even civilized!

Now this I have to look into. I was going to say that's hard to believe, but then given how many Canadians fly to the US for care, that does make sense. No government could afford that kind of blanket care unless there was some cost limits. Now I see why there are waiting lists, and people how have waited 3 years for basic surgery, and a shortage of doctors. Yeah actually, it all makes sense now.

You should look into how many Canadians are going to the US for quick surgury. I would like to know but I think it's just a few very wealthy people who have a hundred grand to blow and who don't want to wait a month or two. I know of no cases where an immediate surgury wasn't done in Canada but I know that you Americans search for the ones which have escaped the radar. Remember why the WHO rated you so poorly? Remember it had something to do with no proactive medical care?

I'll stick with the American way. I get quality medical care now, and if I have to pay for it, I will.

If you can afford it then why would you want to change? You are the only one important to you! unfortunately for you[/], you probably won't keep it that way because your country is demanding a change.

Do I hope you get to keep it that way? I'm sorry but I can't even wish that fate on Americans even though they appear to be mostly like you who doesn't care.

See, you already assumed the answer, without even looking at the evidence. You are so closed minded to alternative view points, you refuse to even consider the idea that WHO or the Health Management Congress, isn't correct. This is as bad as the ICBC, where tons of evidence, even your own evidence, contracted you, but when pressed on it, just claimed everyone was lying. Why are you here if you refuse to consider evidence? Just to spread your one-sided unsupportable view without regard to facts?

Do you not read what I write? Did you not read where I said I was investigating the claims of the HMC? Everyone was lying about ICBC? Well no, but at least you recognize it's possible to keep dirty little secrets on your healthcare crisis.

Further, Rob and I both gave correct answers. One answer, isn't mutually exclusive of the other. You don't just play this "simple debate style" answers to complex questions. Rob was absolutely correct. You on the other hand, haven't made a single supportable point yet.

I don't refuse to consider evidence and on the other thread one of yours has produced some new evidence to support my claims. You won't like it. So o.k. then, let's look at the evidence. The WHO says you are #37 in healthcare, down with some other third world countries.

The HMC report says that 42% of your people don't have healthcare insurance.

You say there's no problem.

All pres hopefuls addressed the issue and made promises to fix what you don't think is a problem.

Is that looking at the evidence? Why not just admit that you just don't care?

 

[Andy]

Could be the US gov is covering up to save your country embarrassment in the eyes of the world.

No. If it were true, then the government socialists would be spouting it day and night, it would be in every single news paper and every major media outlet, in order to gain support for more government. Every single socialist in government, and there are many, would be hammering on that to support their new government controlled, government given, government funded, tax subsidized health plan. They would all be squawking about how they are going to make us healthy.

Ours covers pretty well everything I think. In any case, no matter who you are, you get sick or you get injured and you get medical attention. We don't believe in turnign people away and we believe in being proactive. We look after expecting mothers because we don't believe a high infant mortality rate is even civilized!

Mothers have been turned away because your government funded system can't afford to expand it's health care infrastructure.

www.cimca.ca/media/Globe-Jul24-07.pdf

This year [2007], 26 mothers from B.C. have been sent to three hospitals in Washington State; nine patients remain there today, according to Sarah Plank, spokeswoman for the B.C. Health Ministry.

In Ontario, 10 women with high-risk pregnancies were transferred to U.S. hospitals from April to the end of June, according to Kris Bailey, executive director of CritiCall, an emergency-referral service for physicians in that province. That is one patient more than the entire number Ontario transferred to the United States in fiscal 2006-07. In Alberta, four pregnant women were transferred to Montana this year.

Mothers sent across the border are typically those who have gone into labour before 32 weeks gestation, at which point the premature babies require the highest level of neonatal intensive care. With no beds available in their home province or nearby, expectant mothers are often sent by air ambulance to hospitals in Washington, Montana, Michigan and New York.

Ms. Matte was 31 weeks pregnant on May 3 when she went into labour in Kingsville, Ont. She went to a hospital in nearby Leamington, then to Windsor, before finally being whisked by ambulance across the border to Henry Ford Health System in Detroit.

“The ambulance took me across to Henry Ford hospital, they got me a room, and right there and then, I had my son,” Ms. Matte, 23, said. “It was shocking.”

I can see how well socialism has worked for expectant mothers. Here's my favorite.

One mother, Michelle James of Port Coquitlam, B.C., had the nightmare experience of going into labour in late April four months early – 24 weeks into her pregnancy. With no neonatal intensive- care unit beds available in B.C. or Seattle, she was sent to Spokane, Wash.

“We couldn't stop my labour, and they needed to send me here because they had no beds available,” Ms. James said in a telephone interview Monday from the Deaconess Medical Center, where her daughter is in the neonatal intensive-care unit.

“We had a lot of [B.C.] doctors telling us that the pregnancy is not viable and we may have to make a decision [on whether] to resuscitate.”

But when Ms. James, a 31-year-old medical office assistant, arrived in Spokane on April 28, doctors managed to stave off her labour for three more weeks. Ms. James gave birth to Kelsey, who was two pounds (less than one kilogram) at the time of her May 17 birth. She now weighs 5 pounds, 2 ounces (2.3 kg).

Although she credits Deaconess medical staff with saving her daughter's life, she noted the emotional and financial cost of the failure of Canada's health-care system to treat her at home.

So the Canadian system said basically, we got no room, and the baby will die. The American system said, we got plenty of room, and we'll save your Canadian child... but someone will have to pay for this.

Which would you prefer?

You should look into how many Canadians are going to the US for quick surgury. I would like to know but I think it's just a few very wealthy people who have a hundred grand to blow and who don't want to wait a month or two. I know of no cases where an immediate surgury wasn't done in Canada but I know that you Americans search for the ones which have escaped the radar. Remember why the WHO rated you so poorly? Remember it had something to do with no proactive medical care?

http://www.heartland.org/Article.cfm?artId=15034

he Fraser Institute, a Canadian think tank, calculated in 2003 the average Canadian waited more than four months for treatment by a specialist once the referral was made by a general practitioner.

I had to see a specialist too. I was given referral, and seen 4 days later.

Private hospital companies in India are seeing tens of thousands of patients a year from outside that country's borders. The largest of these firms, Apollo Hospital Enterprises Ltd., has seen 60,000 foreign patients in the past three years. Terry Salo, a Canadian resident of Victoria, British Columbia, availed himself of hip replacement in Madras, India after waiting more than a year for the "free" service in his home province.

Now this... I LOVE it. Canadian needs a hip replacement... waits more than a YEAR... just for a hip replacement. Gives up on the socialized 'free' system and travels to, of all places... India to get the hip from a PRIVATE... (capitalist) hospital.

http://www.city-journal.org/html/17_3_canadian_healthcare.html

Mountain-bike enthusiast Suzanne Aucoin had to fight more than her Stage IV colon cancer. Her doctor suggested Erbitux—a proven cancer drug that targets cancer cells exclusively, unlike conventional chemotherapies that more crudely kill all fast-growing cells in the body—and Aucoin went to a clinic to begin treatment. But if Erbitux offered hope, Aucoin’s insurance didn’t: she received one inscrutable form letter after another, rejecting her claim for reimbursement. Yet another example of the callous hand of managed care, depriving someone of needed medical help, right? Guess again. Erbitux is standard treatment, covered by insurance companies—in the United States. Aucoin lives in Ontario, Canada.

Darn greed capitalists insurance company in... um... Ontario. Should have gone to those private socialist funded insurance companies in the... er... US.

If you need more examples just ask. I can fill the rest of the thread with them.

If you can afford it then why would you want to change? You are the only one important to you! unfortunately for you[/], you probably won't keep it that way because your country is demanding a change.

Yes they are demanding change, and they will have just as screwed up system as you do.

Do I hope you get to keep it that way? I'm sorry but I can't even wish that fate on Americans even though they appear to be mostly like you who doesn't care.

I'd rather live and pay for it, than have the doctors send me to have different hospitals that can't help, and tell me I'll die.

I don't refuse to consider evidence and on the other thread one of yours has produced some new evidence to support my claims. You won't like it. So o.k. then, let's look at the evidence. The WHO says you are #37 in healthcare, down with some other third world countries.

WHO doesn't talk to the mothers coming here form Canada to get help.

The HMC report says that 42% of your people don't have healthcare insurance.

You say there's no problem.

There are some problems caused by the socialized Medicare / Medicaid system. I never said there's no problem. I just said I don't believe HMC at all. Nothing supports their claim.

All pres hopefuls addressed the issue and made promises to fix what you don't think is a problem.

Is that looking at the evidence? Why not just admit that you just don't care?

Actually all pres hopefuls have not claimed they will fix it. Also, these are politicians. Does anything they say automatically have basis in reality? You really think politicians don't lie? You trust these people huh?

Why don't you just admit most of B.C. hates ICBC and that they over charge and under deliver? The difference is, I have facts supporting my case, you just have ad homin and pointless citing of politicos.

 

[Jarlaxle]

And what kind of "new fullsize car" that is a "high end model" did you buy? I know that my wifes Chrysler 300 cost $35,000, and my Aspen cost $41,500 (and that's not counting finance costs), so we must have very different ideas of what a "full-size, high-end model" is.

Oh, and decaf is for wimps and small children.

Not far off what your wife did...2007 Dodge Magnum R/T. I paid $26,900 for it. A V6 Charger is about $2-3K less.

I hope you didn't actually PAY $41,000+ for that tarted-up Durango.

 

[UShadItComing]

No. If it were true, then the government socialists would be spouting it day and night, it would be in every single news paper and every major media outlet, in order to gain support for more government. Every single socialist in government, and there are many, would be hammering on that to support their new government controlled, government given, government funded, tax subsidized health plan. They would all be squawking about how they are going to make us healthy.

Note that it was at Canadian taxpeyer's expense. This is socialism in action because we keep it tight and when there is an unexpected surge in expecting mothers we rely on our neighbours. WE could have send those mothers to Cuba and they would have gotten even better care.

Mothers have been turned away because your government funded system can't afford to expand it's health care infrastructure.

Canadians don't want to expand it too much and make it more costly. We seek a balance. To have a couple of thousand beds sitting empty is not good government and it's not progressive socialism. It's capitalism and for profit healthcare. That's what your country would do and that's why yours costs 10% of GDP while ours costs something like 5 or 6%. You can get this one Andy. ka-ching, ka-ching $$$$$$$$$$$. That's your song playing!

www.cimca.ca/media/Globe-Jul24-07.pdf

​

I can see how well socialism has worked for expectant mothers. Here's my favorite.

​

Beautiful! Progressive socialism in action! We look after our people and we find it more cost effective to send unexpected surges in patients off to the US when we are short of beds. Some day I hope we can reciprocate but I don't think it's likely because your infant mortality rate indicates that you prefer to let some mothers die.

So the Canadian system said basically, we got no room, and the baby will die. The American system said, we got plenty of room, and we'll save your Canadian child... but someone will have to pay for this.

Which would you prefer?

Our system by a country mile! YOur links proved that we look after our people. Your infant mortality rate tells me that you don't look after yours. But you don't care so I don't expect to score points on that one. Why are expecting American mothers not going to their doctors for prenatal care Andy? Why? You're a first world rich industrialized country Andy!



http://www.heartland.org/Article.cfm?artId=15034

​

I had to see a specialist too. I was given referral, and seen 4 days later.

​

Now this... I LOVE it. Canadian needs a hip replacement... waits more than a YEAR... just for a hip replacement. Gives up on the socialized 'free' system and travels to, of all places... India to get the hip from a PRIVATE... (capitalist) hospital.

http://www.city-journal.org/html/17_3_canadian_healthcare.html

​

This is where the American always goes to score points. Only it's a phoney approach because we know that there are waiting lines in the US system as well. But is the average wait for a hip replacement of 6 months a price we are willing to pay to have all of our citizens looked after? Yes.

Darn greed capitalists insurance company in... um... Ontario. Should have gone to those private socialist funded insurance companies in the... er... US.

If you need more examples just ask. I can fill the rest of the thread with them.

Nope Andy, it's too expensive to get insurance in the land of the gun. Remember? $6500/$800. US/Canada?

Yes they are demanding change, and they will have just as screwed up system as you do.

Yes Andy, the world is out of step with the US. Take two aspirins and call me in the morning if you haven't died during the night.

I'd rather live and pay for it, than have the doctors send me to have different hospitals that can't help, and tell me I'll die.

If you have lots of money or lots of expensive insurance then you won't have to worry. 42% may see it differently.

WHO doesn't talk to the mothers coming here form Canada to get help.

I'm sure WHO is aware of a couple of dozen mothers who have been sent to the US and looked after by our system.

There are some problems caused by the socialized Medicare / Medicaid system. I never said there's no problem. I just said I don't believe HMC at all. Nothing supports their claim.

We'll work on it together.

Actually all pres hopefuls have not claimed they will fix it. Also, these are politicians. Does anything they say automatically have basis in reality? You really think politicians don't lie? You trust these people huh?

Maybe one or two didn't. Which ones? Yes, there are pres hopefuls and they have to say what the people want to hear.

Why don't you just admit most of B.C. hates ICBC and that they over charge and under deliver? The difference is, I have facts supporting my case, you just have ad homin and pointless citing of politicos.

If it were true that most of B.C. hates ICBC I would be screaming for abolishing it myself. Come on Andy, that was a loser for you right from the start and no matter how much you twist and turn in the wind you ain't gonna make any ground on it.

 

[GenSeneca]

your infant mortality rate indicates that you prefer to let some mothers die.

Do Canadians force irresponsible pregnant women to take care of themselves and their baby?

 

[Andy]

Note that it was at Canadian taxpeyer's expense. This is socialism in action because we keep it tight and when there is an unexpected surge in expecting mothers we rely on our neighbours. WE could have send those mothers to Cuba and they would have gotten even better care.

Odd... how do we not have unexpected surges? Oh wait, cause we have the ability to care for our people regardless. How wonderful your 'neighbors' are generous enough to offer service to your superior system...

Unsubstantiated hyperbole. You can not, nor could even try to support that theory. Not to mention, I doubt the Cubans willing to die to get to the US, are fleeing the amazing Cuban health care system.

Canadians don't want to expand it too much and make it more costly. We seek a balance. To have a couple of thousand beds sitting empty is not good government and it's not progressive socialism. It's capitalism and for profit healthcare. That's what your country would do and that's why yours costs 10% of GDP while ours costs something like 5 or 6%. You can get this one Andy. ka-ching, ka-ching $$$$$$$$$$$. That's your song playing!

Interesting way of justifying bad health care. I'll gladly pay more for better quality care.

Beautiful! Progressive socialism in action! We look after our people and we find it more cost effective to send unexpected surges in patients off to the US when we are short of beds. Some day I hope we can reciprocate but I don't think it's likely because your infant mortality rate indicates that you prefer to let some mothers die.

Your doctor, told this mother, her baby was going to die. "Beautiful! Progressive Socialism in action!" = "your baby is doomed"

What are you smoking? You even said "your infant mortality rate indicates that you prefer to let some mothers die". infant mortality ≠ mothers die. Do I need to get you a dictionary?

Question, what would have happened if we had a socialist system, and didn't have the beds for you to come here when your system failed you? Because that is in fact happening in specific areas of the country as we speak.

Our system by a country mile! YOur links proved that we look after our people. Your infant mortality rate tells me that you don't look after yours. But you don't care so I don't expect to score points on that one. Why are expecting American mothers not going to their doctors for prenatal care Andy? Why? You're a first world rich industrialized country Andy!

This is amazing... when faced with facts about your system, you say it's great that your hospitals can't help your people and send them out of the country in order to not die... and think this is good? If not for America's capitalist system, your infant mortality rate would be vastly higher. We are saving your babies from dying at the hand of your socialist system.

In other words, your grasping at the wind to support your point.

http://www.heartland.org/Article.cfm?artId=15034

​

This is where the American always goes to score points. Only it's a phoney approach because we know that there are waiting lines in the US system as well. But is the average wait for a hip replacement of 6 months a price we are willing to pay to have all of our citizens looked after? Yes.

Huh? lol Like a deer in the head lights, eh? Did you know the average wait time for an MRI in the US is so low, it's not even documented in most cases?

There is one documented case where a patient waited 22 months for an MRI in Canada.

According to a September 14, 2007, article from CTV News, Canadian Liberal MP Belinda Stronach went to the United States for breast cancer surgery in June 2007. Stronach's spokesperson Greg MacEachern was quoted in the article saying that the US was the best place to have this type of surgery done.

Oh I thought you said Cuba. Funny how a Member of your Parliament disagrees.

Champion figure skater Audrey Williams needed a hip replacement. Even though she waited two years and suffered in pain, she still did not get the surgery, because the waiting list was so long. So she went to the US and spent her own money to get the surgery. That loving socialist system. Good thing you don't pay for it. Oh wait... taxes.

A January 19, 2008, article in The Globe And Mail states, "More than 150 critically ill Canadians – many with life-threatening cerebral hemorrhages – have been rushed to the United States since the spring of 2006 because they could not obtain intensive-care beds here. Before patients with bleeding in or outside the brain have been whisked through U.S. operating-room doors, some have languished for as long as eight hours in Canadian emergency wards while health-care workers scrambled to locate care."

Now there's a plan we need here. Have us in tortured pain for eight hours, in the emergency room, while workers look around for someone else to help.

Good to know your shoddy socialist "better than America according to WHO, yet we're going to send them to America because we can't help them", is at least cheap. In fact, "cheap" is about the best description I can give your worthless system.

Nope Andy, it's too expensive to get insurance in the land of the gun. Remember? $6500/$800. US/Canada?

Not too expensive for me. I have darn good coverage. I only make $24K a year. If I can afford it, it's not too expensive.

I'm sure WHO is aware of a couple of dozen mothers who have been sent to the US and looked after by our system.

Try hundreds. A dozen, was one year in one province.

If it were true that most of B.C. hates ICBC I would be screaming for abolishing it myself. Come on Andy, that was a loser for you right from the start and no matter how much you twist and turn in the wind you ain't gonna make any ground on it.

Oh... I see. So if YOU don't hate ICBC, then obviously most of B.C. doesn't either? Odd, I think you said your self that the liberal party in B.C. is gain support, and ICBC is a issue, isn't it?

As far as I'm concerned, I've used stories, reports, evidence, actual quotes from Canadians, documented information, and getting real insurance quotes from companies operating in Canada.

You have... um... one claim that I must be lying because YOU got a "different" quote for insurance than some other guy in Canada.... and now that obviously most people like ICBC, because you do.

To me, and I wager most rational people, a case built on evidence, rather than limited one sided opinion, is more believable. If I came on here and said, ICBC sucks cause, well I think it sucks and 'obviously' if I do, most people do.... You'd laugh. Well... I'm laughing at you, FIY.

 

[UShadItComing]

Do Canadians force irresponsible pregnant women to take care of themselves and their baby?

Well Gensen, and Rob too, I'm confused on what Andy's agenda really is now.

So here's the issue: Suppose you ran a private hospital and you had 500 beds for patients. And you had 500 beds because you wanted to run your hospital in the most cost efficinet manner. So usually you have say 450 or so beds full at any one time and you have balanced your supply of beds with the demand for beds, like any good businessman would do. You don't want a bunch of beds sitting empty because they are in rooms which will sit empty and this is not your best approach to being cost efficient. So things go along swimmingly until all of a sudden there is a surge in the number of patients. And then you have to ship off a few patients to another hospital because you don't have the beds. Just as the other hospital does for you when they have a overflow.

So here's my question: What would you do? Would you carry *550 beds all the time and see 50 beds be sitting mostly empty or would you choose to coopererate with other hospitals?

See this is where Andy confuses me because if he has any notion at all of how to run a business cost efficiently, he would choose to maintain the average number of 500 beds. Has Andy done a flipflop and is now applauding the method used by Canadian hospitals? Or maybe Andy just doesn't understand how capitalism works? Or is Andy just a commie in sheep's clothing?

*Assuming that 10% is a safe and proper margin of error.

I'm just confused on what Andy's all about now.

What would you two do?

 

[UShadItComing]

Andy!!!! You make only $24, 000 a year! Well here I was debating with a person who I thought all along was a capitalist who had a good idea of how to manage his money. And now you tell me you are sitting at the poverty level in your country! And wow, you applaud your system for doing what it's doing for you!

Oh my!

Andy, I'm not a rich man because I'm only starting to work on my second million but I think I know enough to be able to help poor people like you.

If you're still a student then in fairness you will learn a lot when you mature a little. I'm just wondering if your system will be equipped to help you out?

 

[GenSeneca]

Andy? He has decisively crushed everyone of your arguments... but still, you failed to answer my question and a simple yes or no will do if you're too busy to explain:

Do Canadians force irresponsible pregnant women to take care of themselves during pregnancy?

 

[Andy]

Andy!!!! You make only $24, 000 a year! Well here I was debating with a person who I thought all along was a capitalist who had a good idea of how to manage his money. And now you tell me you are sitting at the poverty level in your country! And wow, you applaud your system for doing what it's doing for you!

I do have a good idea how to manage money. Managing money, and having a high income, are two completely separate things. How do you think I easily afford good health insurance? Properly managed money.

See that's a difference between you and me. I don't expect "the system" to take care of me. I have worked to improve myself. I don't expect anyone else to provide for me.

Andy, I'm not a rich man because I'm only starting to work on my second million but I think I know enough to be able to help poor people like you.

Sure. If you want to send some cash to me, let me know.

If you're still a student then in fairness you will learn a lot when you mature a little. I'm just wondering if your system will be equipped to help you out?

Mature a little? Between the two of us, you seem far less mature to me. I don't expect "the system" to equip me. It is up to the individual to equip themselves. Find the film The Pursuit of Happyness. It all about self motivation and choosing to make the effort to advance ones self.

Maybe when you mature a little, you'll realize it's your job to take care of you, and not everyone else's.

 

[Andy]

Andy? He has decisively crushed everyone of your arguments... but still, you failed to answer my question and a simple yes or no will do if you're too busy to explain:

Do Canadians force irresponsible pregnant women to take care of themselves during pregnancy?

Thanks man. Sometimes shooting down empty argument after empty argument, is a bit tiresome. Nice to have my work validated