Solution to the oil problem

[UShadItComing]

I'm so confused Rob, all these people telling me I pay less tax than you muricans do. Can you assure me Rob that they are all liars and you muricans pay less than we do?

ncome Taxes in Canada and the U.S.Tax surprise: Most of us pay less than Americans In Canada, it's only the better off who ... We've all heard that Americans pay less taxes than Canadians. ...
www.canadiansocialresearch.net/taxes.htm - 18k - Cached - Similar pages

Canadians Healthier Than Americans - Study31 May 2006 ... "We pay almost twice what Canada does for care, more than $6000 for every American, yet Canadians are healthier, and live two to three years ...
www.commondreams.org/headlines06/0531-04.htm - 15k - Cached - Similar pages

Candians Pay Less Tax than Americians - Page 3 - ehMac.ca13 Mar 2008 ... What is the current American tax on goods sold (Like our .5% and .8%) ... Candians Pay Less Tax than Americians Candians Pay Less Tax than ...
www.ehmac.ca/everything-else-eh/62702-candians-pay-less-tax-than-americians-3.html - 82k - Cached - Similar pages

I just don't know who to believe anymore Rob but I know you know!

 

[UShadItComing]

Rob wrote:

I am not going to waste my time scanning the report so you can read it. Go find it yourself. You clearly do not know what the report says, or how they define their measurements and methodology.

So does this mean that you make statements which you can't back up Rob. Does this mean that you can't be trusted from now on?

I want to believe you Rob but you're making it soooo hard.

 

[BigRob]

Rob wrote:

So does this mean that you make statements which you can't back up Rob. Does this mean that you can't be trusted from now on?

I want to believe you Rob but you're making it soooo hard.

You can swing by my office if you would like. But this is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. I have better stuff to do than "lie" to you on some online forum.

 

[Andy]

I'm so confused Rob, all these people telling me I pay less tax than you muricans do. Can you assure me Rob that they are all liars and you muricans pay less than we do?

The sign of a good argument is when you degrade to slurring names.

Income Taxes in Canada and the U.S.Tax surprise: Most of us pay less than Americans In Canada, it's only the better off who ... We've all heard that Americans pay less taxes than Canadians. ...
www.canadiansocialresearch.net/taxes.htm - 18k - Cached - Similar pages

I find this a bit questionable. For example it states that buying power is similar, but Canada has a large VAT while the US doesn't. I note it mentions New York, but NY as a large state sales tax. Not all, I would even say most, do not have a large sales tax. Some have no sales tax at all.

I also note that it compared a two wage earner home at $50,000 /year. Yet just driving truck can earn $40,000 for one person. So the average income for a two wager earner home is under estimated since most couples earn more than that.

The article seemed a bit vague and didn't have specific data.

Canadians Healthier Than Americans - Study31 May 2006 ... "We pay almost twice what Canada does for care, more than $6000 for every American, yet Canadians are healthier, and live two to three years ...
www.commondreams.org/headlines06/0531-04.htm - 15k - Cached - Similar pages

We already covered this. American culture is different than Canadian culture. Some of our cultural difference lend themselves to health problems. It has little to do with the health care system. We know this because people fly down here form Canada to get treatment. So obviously the system isn't at fault.

Candians Pay Less Tax than Americians - Page 3 - ehMac.ca13 Mar 2008 ... What is the current American tax on goods sold (Like our .5% and .8%) ... Candians Pay Less Tax than Americians Candians Pay Less Tax than ...
www.ehmac.ca/everything-else-eh/62702-candians-pay-less-tax-than-americians-3.html - 82k - Cached - Similar pages

A blog page? Spare me.

Instead of blogs and vague news reports, try Wiki on compared economies. You know, actual specific data on the differences and how they match up. I did read something about Canada from a research institute. Perhaps I can look that up again. Of course, this might challenge your presuppositions. I look forward to more of your gripping reasoning.

 

[Andy]

Rob wrote:

So does this mean that you make statements which you can't back up Rob. Does this mean that you can't be trusted from now on?

I want to believe you Rob but you're making it soooo hard.

Yeah I suppose it's logical to assume we are all lying, every single one of us, including all those Canadians who hate ICBC. It's all a grand conspiracy to fool one guy on the House of Politics political forum.

 

[UShadItComing]

You can swing by my office if you would like. But this is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. I have better stuff to do than "lie" to you on some online forum.

Then simply produce the report's pertinent section where it tells us why America's healthcare system made it to #37. Or go argue with Andy because you two don't even agree.

Get back to me.

 

[UShadItComing]

The sign of a good argument is when you degrade to slurring names.



I find this a bit questionable. For example it states that buying power is similar, but Canada has a large VAT while the US doesn't. I note it mentions New York, but NY as a large state sales tax. Not all, I would even say most, do not have a large sales tax. Some have no sales tax at all.

I also note that it compared a two wage earner home at $50,000 /year. Yet just driving truck can earn $40,000 for one person. So the average income for a two wager earner home is under estimated since most couples earn more than that.

The article seemed a bit vague and didn't have specific data.



We already covered this. American culture is different than Canadian culture. Some of our cultural difference lend themselves to health problems. It has little to do with the health care system. We know this because people fly down here form Canada to get treatment. So obviously the system isn't at fault.



A blog page? Spare me.

Instead of blogs and vague news reports, try Wiki on compared economies. You know, actual specific data on the differences and how they match up. I did read something about Canada from a research institute. Perhaps I can look that up again. Of course, this might challenge your presuppositions. I look forward to more of your gripping reasoning.

Actually I just did a search and copied and pasted the results without even reading it Andy. The reason for that is I'm not sure now what side of the argument you and Rob are wanting to argue. Is it that you think taxes are lower in the US or higher? Or are you on about healthcare now? Maybe we should get that straight befoe we go on. Ya think?

 

[UShadItComing]

Yeah I suppose it's logical to assume we are all lying, every single one of us, including all those Canadians who hate ICBC. It's all a grand conspiracy to fool one guy on the House of Politics political forum.

I think the issue is Andy, that Rob gave a reason why your healthcare system is rated down at #37 and it wasn't the same reason you gave. Get your heads together and try to come up with something that you two are in agreement on. Maybe the best way would be to have a look at the WHO study and find out what they say so then you can call them a bunch of socialists who hate America.

Then I'll have something to go on here.

This all started with the fact that it costs $6500 to provide healthcare to a worker in the US and it apparently costs only $800 to do it in Canada. And that's got something to do with the auto industry packing it's bags and moving out of the land of the gun and coming to Canada.

What can I say Andy?

 

[UShadItComing]

Double post made in my excitement to help Andy and Rob.

 

[UShadItComing]

Andy and Rob. I want to help because I care about you good ol boys. Here's something you may be interested in because it gives some answers from another other than the WHO who may be commie pinkos who hate America too much.

http://healthmanagementcongress.blogspot.com/2008/07/in-recent-article-at-washington-post.html

-Fragmented, poorly coordinated care
-Lack of access that leads to avoidable hospitalizations
-Variations on costs with no return in quality
-Lack of investment in IT
-High insurance overhead costs

But admittedly, the Health Management Congress could also be a commie pinko plot against America!

Get back to me on that would you boys?

 

[BigRob]

Andy and Rob. I want to help because I care about you good ol boys. Here's something you may be interested in because it gives some answers from another other than the WHO who may be commie pinkos who hate America too much.

http://healthmanagementcongress.blogspot.com/2008/07/in-recent-article-at-washington-post.html



But admittedly, the Health Management Congress could also be a commie pinko plot against America!

Get back to me on that would you boys?

This "blog" also claims that in 2007 42% of all Americans lacked health insurance. That would put the number of uninsured somewhere in the ballpark of 130,000,000. I have yet to hear anyone, even a democrat make a claim like that.

From the WHO report:

These groups covered basic demography, cause of death, burden of disease, disability-adjusted life expectancy, health inequalities, responsiveness, fairness of financial contribution, health system preferences, national health accounts and profiles, performance analysis and basic economic data.

From the WHO director:

Clearly, their defining purpose is to improve and protect health – but they have other intrinsic goals. These are concerned with fairness in the way people pay for health care, and with how systems respond to people’s expectations with regard to how they are treated. Where health and responsiveness are concerned, achieving a high average level is not good enough: the goals of a health system must also include reducing inequalities, in ways that improve the situation of the worst-off. In this report attainment in relation to these goals provides the basis for measuring the performance of health systems.

The report defines four key functions: providing services; generating the human and physical resources that make service delivery possible; raising and pooling the resources used to pay for health care; and, most
critically, the function of stewardship.

Further goes on to say in the introduction:

Ultimate responsibility for the performance of a country’s health system lies with government.

Health systems are not just concerned with improving people’s health but with protecting them against the financial costs of illness.

From the Overview Section:

The objective of good health itself is really twofold: the best attainable average level – goodness – and the smallest feasible differences among individuals and groups – fairness. Goodness means a health system responding well to what people expect of it; fairness means it responds equally well to everyone, without discrimination.

So, a huge part of the analysis of the report, is how fair the WHO thinks a health system is, and they openly admit in the overview that it is the government's job to be responsible for healthcare and also to blunt the cost of an illness. That right there goes against a lot of what the United States thinks about healthcare.

 

[UShadItComing]

So there ya go Rob, you didn't like the Health Management Congress so you finallly got off your a-s and gave us the goods on the WHO study. Which of course disproves your original claim. So the WHO are not the pinko commies who are plotting against the US but the Health Management Congress is? Or neither? Or both?

Do you want out of this now or are we going to have some more fun at your expense?

 

[BigRob]

So there ya go Rob, you didn't like the Health Management Congress so you finallly got off your a-s and gave us the goods on the WHO study. Which of course disproves your original claim. So the WHO are not the pinko commies who are plotting against the US but the Health Management Congress is? Or neither? Or both?

Do you want out of this now or are we going to have some more fun at your expense?

Originally Posted by UShadItComing
No Rob, Andy was closer to right when he said that the rating was based on access alone. In any case neither of you are right but who the hell cares now.

It appears you are mistaken. I just showed you that the WHO based their report on many other factors, including "fairness" of the government. I also pointed out their logic when they claim that it is the government's responsibility to ensure people have access to healthcare and to limit the cost of an illness.

It was based on more than access Andy. I've read the report and it was also based on cost per capita GDP.

I again pointed out what all it was actually based on, which is more than you have stated, and which you continue to ignore.

You then continue to say

And Andy, did I mention that ours is rated higher than yours?

And in the report it becomes more clear as to why the US healthcare system is ranked so low, when the ranking organization places a much higher emphasis on government management and government intervention in healthcare.

You then post some blog that claims 42% of Americans lack health insurance, which would amount to around 130,000,000 million Americans. But the Census Bureau puts that number closer to 40,000,000. So who is right? I would think those in favor of national healthcare would be screaming if 130,000,000 million people had no coverage, but the fact is, it is simply not true.

Added to that, when my claim was that the WHO report was based on many other factors than just what you stated, I am unsure how exactly me showing you that very info from the WHO report proves me wrong.

So continue to laugh in the face of more facts. I am glad you are having fun.

 

[UShadItComing]

So Rob, in 2003 it was 35% of Americans with no healthcare insurance and it rose to 42% in 2007. Now we're getting closer to the real dirt I've been looking for. You think that Congress was lying about all this Rob?

 

[BigRob]

So Rob, in 2003 it was 35% of Americans with no healthcare insurance and it rose to 42% in 2007. Now we're getting closer to the real dirt I've been looking for. You think that Congress was lying about all this Rob?

First of all, the Health Management Congress has nothing to do with the US Congress.

The Health Management Congress is basically a convention that is attended by people such as HMO's, hospitals, non-profit groups etc. What they claim has no bearing on reality or what the actual US Congress has to say about anything.

I see you are now dropping the WHO issue as well and trying to peddle this new garbage as sanctioned by the US government.