Prove that God doesn't exist.

[vyo476]

so , you agree that "religion" does CONTROL human behavior & thinking by its various rules via the commandments and other doctrines.

No, "society" does that. Reread this section of my post:

You may as well be describing "society" in general. Basic group theory: people come together for mutual benefits. People form a "society" in order to interact with each other easier. Said society is based on certain norms and values which determine the worth of behavior. As society grows and diversifies, norms and values change for some and remain the same for others - and conflict ensues as people increasingly cannot find compromises for differences in their views on how to get along.

All societies persecute people for "thinking the wrong way." It is not (solely) a religious problem.

 

[Shadow]

Believers in god confuse wanting something to be true with evidence.

They want to believe in god to get a quick answer to hard questions.

They want to believe in god for the comfort of thoughts of an afterlife.

But wanting something to be true does not make it true.

Indeed. They "believe" all this on what amounts to heresay. Stories told to them through the ages......

Instead of looking for answers in their real world, in the scientific and factual world...... they choose to accept myths , without any solid evidence .


........... asking others to prove a negative is a favorite tactic...........but a tactic just the same.

Wonder if they ever ask THEMSELVES the question : How did I get to "believe " the way I do.?? What influenced my belief system?? Why do I not question my belief system ?? Why is it so scary to question a belief system that is NOT based on solid fact.? Why is it so important to DEFEND my "belief" system..... when reason suggests something else entirely.

Mind you............. there was an era when folks "believed" the earth was FLAT........... and even with evidence to the contrary, they hung on to their "beliefs." Beliefs can be extremely tenacious. Even when reason suggests different.

One has to conclude that beliefs offer a form of "security" and "need fullfillment ".

 

[Dawkinsrocks]

And isn't it funny that if you are born in the USA you believe in the christian religion but if you are born in Iraq you believe in the muslim religion?

Anybody would think it is something that you are brainwashed with by the society you grow up in.

The fact is that belief in god is just like belief in father xmas.

Except most people grow out of that.

 

[PLC1]

And isn't it funny that if you are born in the USA you believe in the christian religion but if you are born in Iraq you believe in the muslim religion?

Anybody would think it is something that you are brainwashed with by the society you grow up in.

The fact is that belief in god is just like belief in father xmas.

Except most people grow out of that.

Once again, you are using an argument against organized religion as an argument against the existence of god.

Once again, I must remind you that, while god created man, man created religion. You're attacking man's creation, which isn't too difficult. Try disproving your own creator instead, and you'll find it is much more difficult.

If you don't have a creator, just why do you exist? Did you think that a complex and intricate machine like the human body just created itself?

 

[Dawkinsrocks]

That argument is so weak.

The human body is very badly 'designed'. There are loads of failure points.

If it was designed the designer was rubbish.

But even if it was designed and created that does not imply god in any guise you might like him to be in.

And considering how vile the world is it would be more reasonable to say the devil created the world.

But life evolved and the universe started with the big bang.

The fact that nobody can say as yet what preceded that does not mean we jump in with the bizarre answer of god as there isn't a shred of supporting evidence for this unfeasible idea.

 

[PLC1]

But even if it was designed and created that does not imply god in any guise you might like him to be in.

If it was designed and created, then who designed and created it?

Even with all of its faults, the human body is far beyond anything that even 21st. century science can do.

So far, mankind hasn't even been able to create a single celled amoeba, let alone a mammal of any kind, or a complete ecosystem.

 

[Dawkinsrocks]

The body is the product of millions of years of evolution.

Not design

 

[PLC1]

The body is the product of millions of years of evolution.

Not design

So you say. Evolution describes how the human body was created, not who or what did the creating.

Can you substantiate your claim that there is no intelligent guidance behind evolution?

 

[Dawkinsrocks]

You cannot prove a negative.

It is logically impossible.

In the rational world when you make a claim like god created man the onus is on you to prove it, not for me to disprove it.

BTW I wouldn't try too hard as nobody has ever been able to produce a single piece of credible evidence.

Amd your conrtinual question about where did it come from in the first place just proves there are still difficult questions to answer.

But science, unlike religion doesn't just leap to unsupportable answers

 

[GenSeneca]

You cannot prove a negative.

It is logically impossible.

In the rational world when you make a claim like god created man the onus is on you to prove it, not for me to disprove it.

BTW I wouldn't try too hard as nobody has ever been able to produce a single piece of credible evidence.

Amd your conrtinual question about where did it come from in the first place just proves there are still difficult questions to answer.

But science, unlike religion doesn't just leap to unsupportable answers

The answers are so obvious it is too tiresome to write them down

Sorry

 

[PLC1]

You cannot prove a negative.

It is logically impossible.

In the rational world when you make a claim like god created man the onus is on you to prove it, not for me to disprove it.

BTW I wouldn't try too hard as nobody has ever been able to produce a single piece of credible evidence.

Amd your conrtinual question about where did it come from in the first place just proves there are still difficult questions to answer.

But science, unlike religion doesn't just leap to unsupportable answers

No one has been able to prove a negative, nor has anyone ever proven the existence of god. There is no way to settle the question unequivocally.

Yes, there are difficult questions to answer, and science will never answer some of them. It has answered the question of how life was created, but can't even address the question of who did the creating. Science can't tell us why we exist, whether we will continue to exist after the death of our bodies, or what that life might be like.

So, we human beings create religion, based on a belief system that has no scientific evidence behind it. It is comforting for some to think that we know the answers to unanswerable questions. Others see the belief systems as shams, and then conclude that there is no creator. That is yet another belief system with no scientific evidence to back it up.

Still, if the existence of creation isn't evidence of a creator, what is?

Does the existence of a jetliner prove the existence of a creator of said jetliner, or are we to assume that it simply evolved from simple machines and has as its ancestor the Wright Brother's aircraft? Of course, we know that there is a creator, us, and that it did evolve from simpler machines. Evolution, then, doesn't explain the existence of life, just the means by which it came about.

 

[Shadow]

I must remind you that, while god created man, man created religion.

HALF of that comment is accurate and can be proven. It is that MAN created religion. All one has to do is trace a path into history and see how "religion(S) " evolved.

Mankind seems to have NEEDED some kind of uneartlhy entity since he started walking upright and using a form of "reason". He used "god" to explain away things he did not understand ....yet or had not figured out mathematically/ scientifically ......yet.


Man HAS evolved to the point of examining this god issue as being something ..... an element ..... WITHIN not only mankind , but in all living and non "living " creatures.

Personally, I think the FEAR factor in god/ religion is what has made this so tenacious as people have been brainwashed to fear the wrath of god. And there is NOTHING more powerful in controlling a persons mind.....then fear of an unseen element.

( works with terrorism too. Terrorists are at least visible ........when and if found........ but the ism is a prime tool..... to control a population. Same principle ~ )

Perhaps too, it is those powerful moments of joy, be it about the wondrous nature around us , or a long wished for event ...... that evoke a feeling of such AWE and INSPIRATION......that folks name this phenomena / moments a "spiritual " experience ...... having no other words to describe it or categorize it.


The reality is , that the more science , math & psychology too explains about the current unknowns , the less mankind will need to rely on such abstract entities that cannot be proven one way or another.

the bottom line is.............folks are entitled to believe whatever they want...... where ever they live etc etc. BUT..... they are NOT entitled to impose their beliefs on anyone else. Or to shun any belief that is different from theirs. No "belief" is better or worse than another,...........it is just DIFFERENT.


*********

I know of children that are growing up in a non relgious environment and they are secure, grounded and realistic. The significant factor is that they are NOT afraid of some unseen entity, or afraid of being punished by some "god"..... that they can't see. They have a sound ethical and "moral" upbringing... are learning what is humane and what is destructive to others.

 

[Shadow]

Still, if the existence of creation isn't evidence of a creator, what is?

How are you defining "creation".?? Or are you talking about "existence" itself??


*****
Maybe the important thing is that we as a people NOT be afraid to ASK questions...... and keep pursuing explanations that make reasonable and rational sense. Even within what appears to be a high level of abstraction.

.....at the moment........."the jury is out"...... as the FACT Is none of us KNOWS one way or another for certain. Belief is NOT knowledge. Some mistake an inner intuitive sense as true knowledge...... but are not able to demonstrate or recreate an example.

 

[The Scotsman]

The body is the product of millions of years of evolution.

Not design

.....could the process of evolution not be construed as design? For example organisms that exist within ecological systems have adapted to the surroundings and (ideally) co-exist with other organisms. If the environment is dramatically changed or altered then organisms must likewise change or adapt to their new environment or die; thus they must evolve. Those organisms that sucessfully adapt have been effectively redesigned by nature - their characteristics have been altered to take account of their new situation!

Who's to say that nature and God are not synonymous?

 

[Shadow]

Whos's to say that nature and God are not synonymous?

no one.


Seems the evolution process involves the creative process. & vice versa. I might be going off on a limb here.......... but the two are highly interwined.


That is why , personally, I think it makes no sense to separate the two entities .........let alone make them contradictory , IMHO it is not an either / or proposition.

Basic adaptation ( biological) for eg...... would involve both.

( I realize this is simplistic....