The existence or non existence of god is not an objective truth, but a matter of faith and belief. As you said, it can not be proven one way or another.
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Prove that God doesn't exist.
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The existence or non existence of god is not an objective truth, but a matter of faith and belief. As you said, it can not be proven one way or another.
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SusanConstant
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The best proof of God you are ever going to have is yourself. Humans are funny; they want numbers and they want visible proof but when they get it if it does not justify their personal beliefs then they deny it rather than reconsider what they were taught to believe as fact. There is one fact that will forever be your own: your feelings. Nobody shares the exact emotion you have in any given moment. Unfortunately people have been taught to deny themselves when they deny reality, as that is a society conditioning you to believe what is popular or what is good for the privileged class. Your feelings are negated. Do not ever allow anyone to convince you that a fact of you is not fact or that what you felt was not real or correct. What happens in your own life is evidence and that evidence rises to proof at some point. You own knowledge. That’s wisdom.
What science has done is exhaust all avenues save one: Male scientists refuse to consider women as equals in the sciences. Their ideas are rejected out of hand. There’s a reason: Men actually believe that no woman can be an actual genius as the only kind of birth men give is to intellectual property and so they jealously guard it. An emotion happens to be intellectual property but they refuse to believe it. As the female half of the universe is denied as is the female nature of God, science has run out of new ideas. So what happens next? What is going on right now: science begins to change the facts by changing the numbers to fit their models, they begin teaching what is unproven theory as fact, they deny God exists even when their own finding supports God and they use all manner of convoluted reasoning to explain creation and most of it is impossible and does not make any sense. For instance, as man is an elegant reflection of the universe if people can do it the universe does and vice versa. I heard on the news that Stephen Hawking has written a new paper (I have not read it) which theorizes that the universe came into existence as all ways we think it might have been created happened at once. If that is what his paper says then he is wrong.
All probabilities have been played out but all do not happen at once as we choose. Think: What is your own experience of life? Does a woman give birth vaginally and by caesarean both at the same time? Does she create the idea of a baby in her head and later act upon it? Is it then possible that God gave birth to the universe both or all ways at once? While you might answer yes as all things are possible it seems to me God has already revealed the answer: God chose too. It had to happen one way just as people do it one way but with a difference: It was instantaneous; the idea wasn’t on his mind for a while. He did not think first as we do. God thought Be and it was; he did not have to then act. That’s uniformity. Women are perfectly designed to reason the universe or God as they have life experience men do not and as patriarchy inflicts an injury upon you that makes you right brained or whole thinkers. You see the whole and then have to break it down into pieces. Men build it up from the absolutes. By their very natures physics and constitutional law then should be riddled with women and they are not due to discrimination and due to men acting upon a true belief that women are less than.
Women need to start applying what they know to the questions as the answers are within you. You do not realize it as your thoughts, feelings, ideas and beliefs have been denied. My experience has been that women are fearful of: Public humiliation. Being made to feel embarrassed.
One of the biggest questions we have about the universe is: Why is there more matter than antimatter? All of you know the answer. When science begins changing facts and so denying reality then that is your clue to go back to the purest sources and begin again as somebody missed it. All you need to learn is: There must be more matter or else we would not exist and that all of creation is made up of light, even people. If it were not Relativity would not be fact; as we have proven most of Relativity we can reasonably assume it is wholly a fact or elegant. I have my own proof that it is but you do not need that. There’s a guy named Bruce Cathie who reasons physical uniformity and reasons all of creation as light via math. I used something else as I could not know what numbers were or were not reliable. I could not afford to begin with a made up number.
If all of creation is light and it is, the answer has been before us as all things come from some thing; no thing means no things. You cannot get a thing from no thing. It might appear as if but you need to look more closely. There has to be a point of causation. One cause and all of creation is the effect. I’m not religious but the answer is obvious to me: Why more matter? “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters. Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light. God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness. God called the light day, and the darkness He called night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day. “
Not light as in the kind you turn on but matter. God separated antimatter from matter which God created first so there is more matter. If there was not at least one particle more – no matter and God would not be so dumb as to make matter but then set up a self-defeating situation whereby what he created is automatically annihilated. What’s the point then? There would be none. It is the next line that confuses people as: It is scientific fact that all of this is an illusion; nothing is as it seems as we cannot see the atomic and subatomic levels with plain eyesight. Think: The Sun does not rise and set; it is the Earth that rotates on an axis and then around the Sun. Night and day? An illusion, not actual reality if you are not on the Earth. Every star in this universe is in motion. This solar system and this galaxy revolve around something…night and day is a perception we have but does it ever actually become dark? Does the Sun go out at night or actually move someplace else? Place – matter - was created first then time as God naming the revolution of Earth as night and day and then evening and morning as one day establishes time and so place and time then is space. The universe.
Time is not linear; the flat clock on a flat wall in no way measures actual time correctly. It does not represent it as it exists in actual reality. When you began reading this you were not in the same place as you are now. The Earth has moved. On its axis and the around the Sun. So have all the other bodies in space. Your immediate physical surroundings give you the perception that you are in the same place. Not only did your physical body move with the Earth but so did your eyes – your mind - as you have read this to this point. Something in your immediate surroundings is different: YOU. Is that place or time? It’s both. Try to think of yourself as on the planet but in a moving solar system in a moving galaxy and imagine yourself changed in each single second and that is time and place. You are 'trapped' by the perception you have of the phyiscal and that clock - the linear idea - and so you are not aware of any other dimension. All past and present is relative to the intrinsic now, you, as you are this very instant and never will be again. You are a star in motion in the universe; you are a part of it not separate from it.
What science has done is exhaust all avenues save one: Male scientists refuse to consider women as equals in the sciences. Their ideas are rejected out of hand. There’s a reason: Men actually believe that no woman can be an actual genius as the only kind of birth men give is to intellectual property and so they jealously guard it. An emotion happens to be intellectual property but they refuse to believe it. As the female half of the universe is denied as is the female nature of God, science has run out of new ideas. So what happens next? What is going on right now: science begins to change the facts by changing the numbers to fit their models, they begin teaching what is unproven theory as fact, they deny God exists even when their own finding supports God and they use all manner of convoluted reasoning to explain creation and most of it is impossible and does not make any sense. For instance, as man is an elegant reflection of the universe if people can do it the universe does and vice versa. I heard on the news that Stephen Hawking has written a new paper (I have not read it) which theorizes that the universe came into existence as all ways we think it might have been created happened at once. If that is what his paper says then he is wrong.
All probabilities have been played out but all do not happen at once as we choose. Think: What is your own experience of life? Does a woman give birth vaginally and by caesarean both at the same time? Does she create the idea of a baby in her head and later act upon it? Is it then possible that God gave birth to the universe both or all ways at once? While you might answer yes as all things are possible it seems to me God has already revealed the answer: God chose too. It had to happen one way just as people do it one way but with a difference: It was instantaneous; the idea wasn’t on his mind for a while. He did not think first as we do. God thought Be and it was; he did not have to then act. That’s uniformity. Women are perfectly designed to reason the universe or God as they have life experience men do not and as patriarchy inflicts an injury upon you that makes you right brained or whole thinkers. You see the whole and then have to break it down into pieces. Men build it up from the absolutes. By their very natures physics and constitutional law then should be riddled with women and they are not due to discrimination and due to men acting upon a true belief that women are less than.
Women need to start applying what they know to the questions as the answers are within you. You do not realize it as your thoughts, feelings, ideas and beliefs have been denied. My experience has been that women are fearful of: Public humiliation. Being made to feel embarrassed.
One of the biggest questions we have about the universe is: Why is there more matter than antimatter? All of you know the answer. When science begins changing facts and so denying reality then that is your clue to go back to the purest sources and begin again as somebody missed it. All you need to learn is: There must be more matter or else we would not exist and that all of creation is made up of light, even people. If it were not Relativity would not be fact; as we have proven most of Relativity we can reasonably assume it is wholly a fact or elegant. I have my own proof that it is but you do not need that. There’s a guy named Bruce Cathie who reasons physical uniformity and reasons all of creation as light via math. I used something else as I could not know what numbers were or were not reliable. I could not afford to begin with a made up number.
If all of creation is light and it is, the answer has been before us as all things come from some thing; no thing means no things. You cannot get a thing from no thing. It might appear as if but you need to look more closely. There has to be a point of causation. One cause and all of creation is the effect. I’m not religious but the answer is obvious to me: Why more matter? “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters. Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light. God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness. God called the light day, and the darkness He called night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day. “
Not light as in the kind you turn on but matter. God separated antimatter from matter which God created first so there is more matter. If there was not at least one particle more – no matter and God would not be so dumb as to make matter but then set up a self-defeating situation whereby what he created is automatically annihilated. What’s the point then? There would be none. It is the next line that confuses people as: It is scientific fact that all of this is an illusion; nothing is as it seems as we cannot see the atomic and subatomic levels with plain eyesight. Think: The Sun does not rise and set; it is the Earth that rotates on an axis and then around the Sun. Night and day? An illusion, not actual reality if you are not on the Earth. Every star in this universe is in motion. This solar system and this galaxy revolve around something…night and day is a perception we have but does it ever actually become dark? Does the Sun go out at night or actually move someplace else? Place – matter - was created first then time as God naming the revolution of Earth as night and day and then evening and morning as one day establishes time and so place and time then is space. The universe.
Time is not linear; the flat clock on a flat wall in no way measures actual time correctly. It does not represent it as it exists in actual reality. When you began reading this you were not in the same place as you are now. The Earth has moved. On its axis and the around the Sun. So have all the other bodies in space. Your immediate physical surroundings give you the perception that you are in the same place. Not only did your physical body move with the Earth but so did your eyes – your mind - as you have read this to this point. Something in your immediate surroundings is different: YOU. Is that place or time? It’s both. Try to think of yourself as on the planet but in a moving solar system in a moving galaxy and imagine yourself changed in each single second and that is time and place. You are 'trapped' by the perception you have of the phyiscal and that clock - the linear idea - and so you are not aware of any other dimension. All past and present is relative to the intrinsic now, you, as you are this very instant and never will be again. You are a star in motion in the universe; you are a part of it not separate from it.
SusanConstant
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I have an exact idea how creation occurred but can I prove it? No and so I do not own that knowledge yet as I am still working on discovering proof beyond doubt. I know when I doubt something. I'll know when I have it. Infinity then gives rise to infinite possibilities so I can pick two or three ways that seem most likely and chase the answer. I believe one answer stands above the rest. So I’ll concentrate on that. No matter what anyone else thinks or believes. I decided to accept God as fact as I had zero evidence against God and lots of my own proof and that was my own defiance of the odds set against me that I was always able to defeat. Defeat did not always mean something ‘good’ either as I was one of the very first cases of West Nile. Other times it was something good but it was always, always against massive odds. Astronomical odds.
If your own life – actual reality – is not proof what is? I applied physics to my own life.
No scientist can ever, ever reason the universe unless you accept God as fact; what you cannot bring with you is: Religion. I used physics to establish God – to prove God – then I went back to the record to answer the next biggest question I had. Like Einstein I do not need to wait as I know the North Pole will move as fact and why and how as fact when a certain event happens just like he knew how that eclipse would behave. You make the prediction first as you come to own the knowledge first then you prove it. To own it you must be willing to step out on faith in yourself alone as you might be waiting for actual proof, as it is other people who need it not you. Einstein waited three years and guess what? They measured it incorrectly but when they adjusted the numbers he was still proven to be correct. He did not have to worry. Think of Mohammed: He knew things about the universe that were not proven for centuries; did he die doubting himself or worrying about proof? He had his own proof.
All of you should follow any ideas you have and pay attention to what is a fact of you; do not let anyone convince you that you’re wrong, defective or anything else and do not let them frighten you into staying silent. If you observe something and the whole world says you’re wrong unless you then make another observation stick with your facts. You might consider other things but never give up your own facts until or unless you can prove your own self incorrect. What produces wisdom is that clash of ideas, as I needed the string theorists to then resolve uniformity as it led me to know as fact:
The ‘anomaly’ is a part of the pattern. It’s not an actual anomaly. You’ve mislabeled it as anomaly as you could not reason it as you did not see the whole.
Let Stephen Hawking deny reality and waste his time arguing with what I know to be fact. I can be as unreligious as I wanna be…nothings reasons those lines in Genesis other than whoever wrote it was inspired by the Creator as it is correct and the scientific proof we have that we know is absolute fact supports it. I won’t ever need different or better reasoning than the opening lines of Genesis to understand why there is more matter than antimatter. I can see, hear and feel the truth when I read it and when I examine this entire planet.
If your own life – actual reality – is not proof what is? I applied physics to my own life.
No scientist can ever, ever reason the universe unless you accept God as fact; what you cannot bring with you is: Religion. I used physics to establish God – to prove God – then I went back to the record to answer the next biggest question I had. Like Einstein I do not need to wait as I know the North Pole will move as fact and why and how as fact when a certain event happens just like he knew how that eclipse would behave. You make the prediction first as you come to own the knowledge first then you prove it. To own it you must be willing to step out on faith in yourself alone as you might be waiting for actual proof, as it is other people who need it not you. Einstein waited three years and guess what? They measured it incorrectly but when they adjusted the numbers he was still proven to be correct. He did not have to worry. Think of Mohammed: He knew things about the universe that were not proven for centuries; did he die doubting himself or worrying about proof? He had his own proof.
All of you should follow any ideas you have and pay attention to what is a fact of you; do not let anyone convince you that you’re wrong, defective or anything else and do not let them frighten you into staying silent. If you observe something and the whole world says you’re wrong unless you then make another observation stick with your facts. You might consider other things but never give up your own facts until or unless you can prove your own self incorrect. What produces wisdom is that clash of ideas, as I needed the string theorists to then resolve uniformity as it led me to know as fact:
The ‘anomaly’ is a part of the pattern. It’s not an actual anomaly. You’ve mislabeled it as anomaly as you could not reason it as you did not see the whole.
Let Stephen Hawking deny reality and waste his time arguing with what I know to be fact. I can be as unreligious as I wanna be…nothings reasons those lines in Genesis other than whoever wrote it was inspired by the Creator as it is correct and the scientific proof we have that we know is absolute fact supports it. I won’t ever need different or better reasoning than the opening lines of Genesis to understand why there is more matter than antimatter. I can see, hear and feel the truth when I read it and when I examine this entire planet.
Shadow
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Seems that the poll should have an " I don't KNOW " option.
Don't think anyone can say "yes" with absolute and factual certainty. Nor can they say NO with absolute and factual certainty.
what one can say is : BELIEVE yes. or BELIEVE NO. One cannot apply the word KNOW to this question.
Don't think anyone can say "yes" with absolute and factual certainty. Nor can they say NO with absolute and factual certainty.
what one can say is : BELIEVE yes. or BELIEVE NO. One cannot apply the word KNOW to this question.
Dawkinsrocks
Well-Known Member
You can't prove that something does not exist but you can prove that something does exist and for the entire lifetime of christianity nobody has succeeded in proving that god exists.
There is not a shred of credible evidence to indicate that he does exist and his existence defies logic.
This is sufficient to justify saying, in mormal parlance, that he does not exist.
Nothing else is assumed to exist until proven otherwise and there is no reason for god to buck this trend.
Apart from the problem it gives to christians of course.
There is not a shred of credible evidence to indicate that he does exist and his existence defies logic.
This is sufficient to justify saying, in mormal parlance, that he does not exist.
Nothing else is assumed to exist until proven otherwise and there is no reason for god to buck this trend.
Apart from the problem it gives to christians of course.
The simple fact is no one has ever met God and been able to prove it.
God is a theory. God is blind faith in something that some believe makes them personally feel better.
If it does I say enjoy it to the fullest... just don't try and force any of it on anyone else in any way.
God is a theory. God is blind faith in something that some believe makes them personally feel better.
If it does I say enjoy it to the fullest... just don't try and force any of it on anyone else in any way.
Dawkinsrocks
Well-Known Member
Unfortunately it is not that simple.
Religion has sought to take money from the poor.
To stifle science.
To start and perpetuate war
To stop parents allowing life-saving blood transfusions to their children
Etc etc
It is not just a benign belief in a make-believe friend to keep desperate people happy.
It is a subversive industry that is responsible for heinous acts against people for not thinking the right way.
From the crusades to the Spanish Inquisition to the Pope telling Africans that condoms are bad to evangelists extorting money to fund their nefarious sexual activities to priest interfering with little boys.
It is time for the human race to put superstition in a box and work with reality.
It is far better for everyone than religion.
Religion has sought to take money from the poor.
To stifle science.
To start and perpetuate war
To stop parents allowing life-saving blood transfusions to their children
Etc etc
It is not just a benign belief in a make-believe friend to keep desperate people happy.
It is a subversive industry that is responsible for heinous acts against people for not thinking the right way.
From the crusades to the Spanish Inquisition to the Pope telling Africans that condoms are bad to evangelists extorting money to fund their nefarious sexual activities to priest interfering with little boys.
It is time for the human race to put superstition in a box and work with reality.
It is far better for everyone than religion.
vyo476
Well-Known Member
"Religion" has not done these things. People purporting religion have done those things. See, "religion" itself is an abstract concept; it's literal applications are what you seek to attack, and since any literal application of an abstract concept requires interpretation and is therefore imperfect, the concept itself, in this case "religion," cannot be handed full blame - the majority of the blame rests on those who interpret it in a negative manner.
Minus the insulting language, that is, in essence, what religion is. What you're attacking is what it has been used for, which has, in many instances, little to do with the religion itself and everything to do with the people purporting to know what it's all about.
You may as well be describing "society" in general. Basic group theory: people come together for mutual benefits. People form a "society" in order to interact with each other easier. Said society is based on certain norms and values which determine the worth of behavior. As society grows and diversifies, norms and values change for some and remain the same for others - and conflict ensues as people increasingly cannot find compromises for differences in their views on how to get along.
All societies persecute people for "thinking the wrong way." It is not (solely) a religious problem.
Now for your next problem: what is the universal definition for existence?
If you're going ask billions of people to throw away their belief systems overnight, you'd better have some pretty intricate plans for what's going to take their places - respecting the diverse social customs which are unreligious and would therefore remain in the wake of the removal of religion.
No one in their right mind would want to manage that anarchy. Would you?
Shadow
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so , you agree that "religion" does CONTROL human behavior & thinking by its various rules via the commandments and other doctrines. ???
Religion controls peoples minds in many ways , and uses fear tactics ( threats of going to some place called hell) to ensure people comply. & "worship" an invisible entity
Society has laws. They are based on what is safe and constructive for humanity. Society has a legal system .that is supposed to prevent chaos.
About god , there is no way, YET to prove the existence one way or another. So ,in that sense, folks can make this entity to be whatever their imagination permits them to.
Physics / science has figured out a fair bit about the essence of existence. It is only in recent decades that tools of science have opened up avenues to explore this whole arena scientifically.
The whole idea of spirits is ancient and for the most part superstitious. Now, if one gets to the point that one can measure the so called "spirit" of a person and differentiate it from the various levels of consciousness , then we can continue to explore this area even more deeply.
But the reality is that it seems a tad foolish to commit oneself to A BELIEF system so rigidly that new evidence (scientific) will not change those views. That is fanaticism. Fanatisicm of any kind is counter productive.
The problem with religion is that each religion thinks it has all THE answers. (arrogance personified). And so each group will take up arms and slaughter others that are of different orientation. In fact each religious group breaks its own rules for "humanitarianism" by HATING other groups that are not them. Or murdering them. etc etc.
Religion narrows a persons world view.........and that too is counterproductive.
That is changing ......but very slowly.
Just some random thoughts on this.
While there is no absolute proof of god's existence, there is ample evidence in his crration.
Reading through this thread, it occurs to me that the arguments in favor of agtheism are really arguments against organized religion. God exists independtent of religion.
Religions are created by man. Man was created by god.
It seems very easy to prove that "GOD" doesn't exist.Let's start with your "HOLY BIBLE". It was printed by man, not carved into the sky for everyone to see and know that it was put there by the almighty. 2, I have a very hard time understanding how anyone can tell me that it was "GODS" will they found a missing child dead.3 with so many differant religons and gods, how do you know if yours is the almighty?
Shadow
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that is the core issue / problem between blind belief and REASON. To every "believer".........THEIR "god" is the "only" god. The horrific thing is that the extremists are more than prepared to KILL for their version of "god".
Yet, belief is NOT FACTUAL KNOWLEDGE. If "god" factor can be isolated via physics and recreated......... then the knowledge base about such an entity could be fully examined.
Dawkinsrocks
Well-Known Member
Believers in god confuse wanting something to be true with evidence.
They want to believe in god to get a quick answer to hard questions.
They want to believe in god for the comfort of thoughts of an afterlife.
But wanting something to be true does not make it true.
They want to believe in god to get a quick answer to hard questions.
They want to believe in god for the comfort of thoughts of an afterlife.
But wanting something to be true does not make it true.
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Nor does it make it false.
