Glenn beck is right about gay marriage

[PLC1]

Agreed.


Actually in the beef industry, it is common to train bulls to mount steers [castrated males] by training them first off an estrus female and then "weaning" them onto the conditioned cues of the steer [body type, smell, etc.] They use steers because the cows are too valuable to risk injuring by a gigantic bull mounting her for collection time and time again. The steers are hardy enough to take it.

The bulls get to where they get quite excited at the site, sound and smell of their mounts and seem to care less about the cows any more.

There you have evidence that bulls, at least, can be made to prefer their own gender. No, it's not all genetic, then, though some of it may be. The study I cited concluded that there may be several factors.

On the other hand, studies show that children raised by homosexuals are no more likely than the general population to be gay. That pretty much eliminates homosexuality being something that children learn from their parents.

It is likely a combination of factors, both genetic and environmental. It is not something someone one day wakes up and says, "I think I'll be gay from now on." It just doesn't happen that way. That's not to say that a rebellious teen might not decide to experiment, maybe tell his parents he is gay just to show his independence. None of that makes him gay in reality.

BTW, knowing just one set of identical twins who openly report different orientation completely destroys the "all homosexuals are innately that way" theory. It simply cannot be true. Identical twins are genetically the same, and if raised in the same household...that's it. Done deal. Just one pair.

More could be studied, surveyed and so on but just one proves that homosexuality in at least some of the cases is environmentally adopted.

It does prove that it is not all genetic. It doesn't prove that genetics is not a factor. According to the studies, there may several factors. It is not a simple matter of a "gay gene" though.

I still haven't heard a good argument for why polygamists cannot plead for marriage alongside GLBT. The more the merrier as far as "weight in numbers" is concerned for the dismantling of "between one man and one woman". I wonder why the GLBT folks are not quick to include the polygamists? Well pocket? Besides a lame argument against their 'love' being too dicey tax wise..do you have any real rebuttal to keeping the "P" off the GLBT list?

Not really. As long as everyone involved is a consenting adult, what is so bad about polygamy? The problem is that, in some of the backward religious communities, underage girls are "married" to older men. That is just abhorrent.

 

[Sihouette]

I did say that the twins showed that not all homosexuality is genetic. They prove that in fact. Just one set, but my suspicion is they aren't the only ones with different "preferences".

I was astonished to learn that male predators are the most pernicious sexual offenders of young preadolescent boys. And that by their old age most of them have molested "hundreds" of boys. And that those boys then are statistically most likely to go on and do the same to hundreds of other boys.

Talk about your suspected origins for homosexuality! And talk about perpetual perpetuation of the phenomenon.

My contention is that we understand the mechanics of deviant and all other sexuality before we start putting stamps of "normal" or "genetic" on them. Like I said, there are far more studies supporting homo sapiens as polygamists than homosexual. On that grounds alone the polygamists should be shoulder to shoulder with gays. But they're not. The gays don't want anything to do with their rights. Like Pocket said, they come up with some lame song and dance about tax issues or some such. And in the next breath they want people to lend an ear to their cause "no matter what". "Anything less would be descrimination".

Poor polygamists. Why left out in the cold? Could it be that the total immediate dismantling of "between one man and one woman" might raise some sleeping alarm bells? Better to stretch out the dismantling instead...to ease the needle under the skin instead of jab it?

 

[bododie]

You need to tell the over 50 women who were married, raised a family, got dumped by their husbands because they got FUG or he cheated on them, and emerged from the divorce as....da...da.DA!!!

A lesbian!

Are they just incredibly stupid and didn't know they were gay for the first 40 years of their lives or did they make a choice later on because they couldn't get another man, and wanted companionship anyway they could get it?

 

[PLC1]

I did say that the twins showed that not all homosexuality is genetic. They prove that in fact. Just one set, but my suspicion is they aren't the only ones with different "preferences".

I was astonished to learn that male predators are the most pernicious sexual offenders of young preadolescent boys. And that by their old age most of them have molested "hundreds" of boys. And that those boys then are statistically most likely to go on and do the same to hundreds of other boys.

Talk about your suspected origins for homosexuality! And talk about perpetual perpetuation of the phenomenon.

My contention is that we understand the mechanics of deviant and all other sexuality before we start putting stamps of "normal" or "genetic" on them. Like I said, there are far more studies supporting homo sapiens as polygamists than homosexual. On that grounds alone the polygamists should be shoulder to shoulder with gays. But they're not. The gays don't want anything to do with their rights. Like Pocket said, they come up with some lame song and dance about tax issues or some such. And in the next breath they want people to lend an ear to their cause "no matter what". "Anything less would be descrimination".

Poor polygamists. Why left out in the cold? Could it be that the total immediate dismantling of "between one man and one woman" might raise some sleeping alarm bells? Better to stretch out the dismantling instead...to ease the needle under the skin instead of jab it?

I'm doing well to get along with one woman. If another man thinks he can keep two or more of them happy, then let him. It really makes no difference to me, not any more than two gays getting married.

When we think of polygamy, usually it is one man with plural wives. How about the other way around?


That's not too likely is it?

Higomous,hogamous, women are monogamous,
Hogomous higomous, men are polygamous.

At least that could explain a Tiger Woods.

 

[Sihouette]

Actually the reverse situation would work out better. It would lower the overall population better since only one womb would be in service instead of many. And another man's reproductive activity would have to be shared with another...making each man's contribution to the population at 1/2 or even 1/100th [depending on how many wives the reverse situation calls for] the normal.

And, women are physically inferior to men so with two [or more] strong backs and arms to pull in wages while one meeker frame stays at home to keep the food on the table and kids wrangled...it would make each home more prosperous. I'd think.

So there you go.

I'd be hard pressed to put up a debate against polygamy being genetic but proving homosexuality isn't, not in all cases...that's a snap actually. I'm surprised that these law enforcement people's info on the multi-generational aspects of pedophilia...the vector principle.. don't compare notes with comparative psychologists working with animal studies and experts in the penal system and incidences of adopted homosexuality there. And the AI people who will tell you for a fact sexuality can be molded by the enviroment...purposefully even.. Why are all these experts zipping their lips on the issue? Could it be... *in my best "Church Lady" impression....*

...PC-pressures?!

 

[Pandora]

You need to tell the over 50 women who were married, raised a family, got dumped by their husbands because they got FUG or he cheated on them, and emerged from the divorce as....da...da.DA!!!

A lesbian!

Are they just incredibly stupid and didn't know they were gay for the first 40 years of their lives or did they make a choice later on because they couldn't get another man, and wanted companionship anyway they could get it?

I know of no women who became lesbians because their husbands dumped them.

I am talking about severe abuse and most of it from childhood to teen years. and again its not in every case but it does happen often.

 

[SapphireJinx]

I have absoute proof that certainly not all homosexuals are born that way.

At least you said not all. Do you think some might be? If you are the expert with animals you claim to be you must have heard of documented cases of wild animals exhibiting exclusive homosexual preference.

I actually, really and factually know a pair of identical twins who, at adulthood, one is a lesbian and one is straight. Kid you not.

Proof.

I dunno. I wouldn't call it proof. In the first place, lesbianism is more culturally accepted in the U.S.. Furthermore, unlike a man, a woman does not have to be aroused to have sex. The straight one could be faking it.

[footnote, these twins were raised by a bisexual baptist woman who posed as a pillar of her church while simultaneously running a porn shop in town. Also true story. She has had multiple partners, ruined several marriages, and has seven kids by ? fathers. She is in short, a christian sex addict. Not that that had anything to do with how the twin girls turned out..oh no..lol.]


Uh...there is far far far more evidence that refutes that statement than supports it. If anthropologists are to be believed, we, the higher apes, are most certainly born with a polygamist bent. Abso-friggin-lutely.

And, to make matters more muddy still, I have trained animals to diverge from their normal sexual preferences onto inanimate objects, so that when they passed a given stage in their sexual behavior, they no longer preferred the original "tease" object [an estrus mare in this case]. They instead begin to drool not only at the site of the dummy mount, but also the specific halter I go get when it's time to "do their thing". He gets an immediate erection at the site of just the halter. Let me guess, he was born that way right? In fact, the AI specialist I took him to for training, this horse anyway, recommended that I get a specific halter just for breeding since if I used the same one for saddling and riding this horse could mistake the event for breeding and become unruly under saddle.

In fact, it's well known in animal husbandry that if you want a stud animal to cover both live and dummy mounts, you'd better take very careful precautions to expose him first to a live mount a couple of times and then a dummy and alternate it up a bit or you'll be stuck with a stud animal that has a fixated preference for the one with the more predominant exposure [see my thread on gay marriage: exploring the closet, where I posted law enforcement overview of molestation early in life.]

Luckily I did this with my new stud and now he "innately"..lol.. mounts either the dummy or the mares.

Alright, let's say that some people may be homosexual or bisexual by choice. So what? Does it harm you in any demonstrable, provable way?

So I ask again to pocket, why should the "P" be left out of GLBT? For certainly a HUGE case could be made that polygamists have a genetic bent to have multiple mates.

Hell, if polygamy were legal you'd see a ton of people doing it, and not just the Mormons. Again, so what? How does it harm you?

 

[Sihouette]

Good points. Study anthropology and learn how social systems affect what we think of as "choice".

 

[dogtowner]

I know of no women who became lesbians because their husbands dumped them.

I know of at least two. Harsh, unpleasant divorces both.

 

[PLC1]

At least you said not all. Do you think some might be? If you are the expert with animals you claim to be you must have heard of documented cases of wild animals exhibiting exclusive homosexual preference.

I can recall a story about two homosexual penguins raising an abandoned chick. I don't remember if anyone figured out whether the chick grew up to be homosexual as well, though.

I dunno. I wouldn't call it proof. In the first place, lesbianism is more culturally accepted in the U.S.. Furthermore, unlike a man, a woman does not have to be aroused to have sex. The straight one could be faking it.



Alright, let's say that some people may be homosexual or bisexual by choice. So what? Does it harm you in any demonstrable, provable way?

Personally, I could care less. I'm not sure why homosexuality is such an emotionally charged issue anyway.

As for choice, I posted this earlier from a study on the subject:

The importance of these regions in sexual differentiation (between the sexes) led scientists to believe that sexual orientation could be on a continuum in this area of neurological research

So, it may be that sexual orientation really is a choice for those near the middle of the continuum. That would explain how some people change their orientation. It could be an explanation of homophobia, as well, as males near the center try to deny their feelings.

Hell, if polygamy were legal you'd see a ton of people doing it, and not just the Mormons. Again, so what? How does it harm you?

How indeed? But, do you really think polygamy would ever be popular? Think of the alternatives:

Live in a house with two or three wives and all get along?
Keep separate houses for each wife? Sounds expensive to me.

No, I think most men would still opt for the wife- mistress arrangement, and hope that the one never finds out about the other.

 

[SapphireJinx]

I can recall a story about two homosexual penguins raising an abandoned chick. I don't remember if anyone figured out whether the chick grew up to be homosexual as well, though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_Tango_Makes_Three

I own it.

Personally, I could care less. I'm not sure why homosexuality is such an emotionally charged issue anyway.

As for choice, I posted this earlier from a study on the subject:



So, it may be that sexual orientation really is a choice for those near the middle of the continuum. That would explain how some people change their orientation. It could be an explanation of homophobia, as well, as males near the center try to deny their feelings.

That makes a lot of sense.

How indeed? But, do you really think polygamy would ever be popular? Think of the alternatives:

Live in a house with two or three wives and all get along?
Keep separate houses for each wife? Sounds expensive to me.

No, I think most men would still opt for the wife- mistress arrangement, and hope that the one never finds out about the other.

Actually, it can be quite rewarding living with both...but it's a LOT of work to make it work.

 

[Sihouette]

I saw two sisters married (illegally) to one man and both had his children. They were at a McDonalds in the Central Valley of CA. Utah plates. Tourists.
The trio were sublime and happy, serene even. The children weren't acting out, were well-behaved and even sublimely happy themselves. Some called one "mom" the others called the other "mom" and all of them called the guy "dad". It was a real eye opener.

They will want to marry too. And they will get that right immediately on the heels of the gay precident.

That's something to think about either pro or con.

I know of no women who became lesbians because their husbands dumped them.

I can trump the two. I know of at least a dozen women who got together with women because not only environmental negative feedback from bad marriages but also the demographic pathetic lack of eligible men in our area. And of those women I know, they've told me dozens of their friends have done the same. The environment caused the "orientation".

 

[Pandora]

I saw two sisters married (illegally) to one man and both had his children. They were at a McDonalds in the Central Valley of CA. Utah plates. Tourists.
The trio were sublime and happy, serene even. The children weren't acting out, were well-behaved and even sublimely happy themselves. Some called one "mom" the others called the other "mom" and all of them called the guy "dad". It was a real eye opener.

They will want to marry too. And they will get that right immediately on the heels of the gay precident.

That's something to think about either pro or con.


I can trump the two. I know of at least a dozen women who got together with women because not only environmental negative feedback from bad marriages but also the demographic pathetic lack of eligible men in our area. And of those women I know, they've told me dozens of their friends have done the same. The environment caused the "orientation".

You know women who have become lesbians because of the demographic pathetic lack of eligible men in your area? WOW!!!

Do you know any men who became homosexual due to the same reason?

This is news to me, I would never have guessed that for a reason to become a homosexual. Can people be that horny?

 

[Sihouette]

I don't think it has everything to do with being "horny". I think it has more to do with being lonely in an area of extreme slim-pickins.

Do I know of any gay male examples? Yes, I think so..The Bay Area's gay male phenomenon started for similar environmental reasons. So many men moved West for the gold rush and other promises of lumbering and such that there were scant few females. Of the ones there they made a killing on prostitution. It's said they're the ones that wound up with all the gold..lol..

Men, who are yes, horn-dogs in general, especially young ones, frustrated at the lack of females began to engage in homosexuality. Fast forward and you have the gay culture so prevalent there. I wonder if the rough-n-rowdy towns of Portland and Seattle have a higher historical incidence of homosexuality like San Fran.? Farm animals do the same thing and in bachelor pens frustration-acquired homosexuality fixation can be a pernicious problem if farmers want to use one of the males as a stud animal. Pigs, the closest related farm animal to humans, seem particularly prone to this syndrome and may refuse to have anything to do with the sows after growing up in a bachelor pen past the critical age.

 

[Gipper]

I don't think it has everything to do with being "horny". I think it has more to do with being lonely in an area of extreme slim-pickins.

Do I know of any gay male examples? Yes, I think so..The Bay Area's gay male phenomenon started for similar environmental reasons. So many men moved West for the gold rush and other promises of lumbering and such that there were scant few females. Of the ones there they made a killing on prostitution. It's said they're the ones that wound up with all the gold..lol..

Men, who are yes, horn-dogs in general, especially young ones, frustrated at the lack of females began to engage in homosexuality. Fast forward and you have the gay culture so prevalent there. I wonder if the rough-n-rowdy towns of Portland and Seattle have a higher historical incidence of homosexuality like San Fran.? Farm animals do the same thing and in bachelor pens frustration-acquired homosexuality fixation can be a pernicious problem if farmers want to use one of the males as a stud animal. Pigs, the closest related farm animal to humans, seem particularly prone to this syndrome and may refuse to have anything to do with the sows after growing up in a bachelor pen past the critical age.

Lets say my beautiful wife were to leave me (not possible, since we are dedicated to each other until death do us part per our vows to God Almighty), there is NO F-ING way I am going gay.

I doubt I am the only one who feels this way. Now, I know there are always exceptions.

If a heterosexual can turn gay as a result of loneliness, then being born gay seems very unlikely.