Do conservatives have to reject global climate change to be conservatives?

Is it necessary to reject global warming to be a conservative?

  • I'm a conservative, and I say no.

    Votes: 3 50.0%
  • I'm a conservative, and I say yes.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I'm a liberal, and I say no.

    Votes: 2 33.3%
  • I'm a liberal, and I say yes.

    Votes: 1 16.7%

  • Total voters
    6
its hard to tell your sarcasm from so many illogical arguments made from you and others on your side.....plus I think more likey you just realized how dumb it sounded after you got called on it...but who knows maybe you did mean it to be funny...

It's actually pretty simple, I try to make it obvious... Lets see if you can pick up on which sentence is sarcasm:

1. Replying to Rogen is tedious because of how he formats his posts.

2. I find Pockets replies to be insightful and well informed. :rolleyes:

I know it's subtle, but I add a little :rolleyes: when I'm being sarcastic.
 
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so under a free market, we are not run by the decisions of ...well just start naming of the banks, large companies , and hedge funds...that have more power over most of our daily lives then Government...but without the votes.
Correct. No bank can force you to give them your money, government can. No large company can force you to give them your money, government can. No hedge fun can force you to give them your money, government can.

Are you starting to see a pattern or is it too subtle?:rolleyes:
 
I'm sorry to see that you have also lost your sense of humor... I guess the only thing you find humor in lately is bashing Conservatives and Christians.

Missed that one. I usually can spot sarcasm pretty well.

But, yes, there is nothing funnier than bashing conservatives and Christians. My favorite is bashing conservatives who support evolution and global warming theory, and Christians who are pro choice.

Since they are so rare, they don't mind being bashed.
 
Correct. No bank can force you to give them your money, government can. No large company can force you to give them your money, government can. No hedge fun can force you to give them your money, government can.

Are you starting to see a pattern or is it too subtle?:rolleyes:

well its good to know they already won you ....enjoy the fairytale
 
well its good to know they already won you ....enjoy the fairytale

Such a response suggests that you've lost the argument so badly you can't even formulate a plausible rebuttle.

Surely that can't be the case...:rolleyes:

Perhaps you could try again and at least attempt to explain where my statements were in error. If my statements are indeed based on fantasy, and reality truly is on your side, then proving my statements to be inaccurate should be a relatively simple task to accomplish.
 
China spends a lot of money to put expensive ethanol in the gas and the point was to artificially inflate corn prices.

What percentage of power comes from wind and solar ? At what cost ? And what happens when it is cloudy or calm ?

Its not viable and you know it. If it were it would be everywhere.

Except that corn prices are now are very low. A low percentage of our energy now comes from solar and wind. That is because we've not invested in the infrastruture to raise that percentage yet. No one is saying that either of these technologies can or will completely replace the use of fossil fuels. They can, however, do a lot to reduce our need for fossil fuels.
 
We were talking about alternative energy sources, home geo is not an energy source, it's used for heating, cooling, and requires electricity to operate, as opposed to producing electricity. But since you brought it up, I actually like home geo and I would like to see the technology become more prevalent - by way of the free market, not government subsidies and mandates.

Geothermal certainly IS an energy source. Home geothermal has been used as a replacement for natural gas and electric heating and for conventional air conditioning. Yes it does use electricity, but hot as much as concentional electrical heating and air conditioning. By the way, many skyscrapers utilize the same type of geothermal heating and air conditioning that is used for home geothermal. And they do so because it is cost efficient.

Geo power plants are very limited in where they can currently be used and there's that pesky "geo power causes earthquakes" thing we have to deal with too.

Was wasn't talking about geothermal power plants, which quite obviously are limited to regions where the geothermal graident is high. As for those pesky Earthquakes, not one has cause significant damage or loss of life. Nearly all of tose earthquakes have been of a mgnitude 4 or less. And dams holding back large reservoirs also cause the same type of earthquakes.

A tax cut is a reduction in the tax rate. Oil companies haven't gotten any tax cuts, quite the opposite, their tax rates have been steadily increasing nearly every year for the last decade. They do get tax incentives, tax credits and tax abatement's, but they have to take some action specified by government to qualify.

http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2010/05/oil_company_subsidies.html

You remember hearing about "record profits" from big oil? Did you know they pay almost 4 times as much in taxes as they make in profit? So every time you heard about an oil company making record profits, they were paying out 4 times as much in taxes. In 2008, Exxon Mobil alone paid as much in taxes as the bottom 50% of taxpayers.

Nonsense. They'd be bankrupt. Obviously, they are not. Exxon mobile's profit margin in recent years has been in the range of 30%.

I agree, it's not cheap, let the private sector pay for the research. It's not the governments (taxpayers) job to fund alternative energy... And if I had my way, the Capitalist way, there would be no tax incentives, tax breaks, tax credits, subsidies or mandates, for any business or industry. Every business and industry would have to fend for itself without assistance from the government.

The area in the private sector with the capital needed to research alternative energy is the petroleum industry, and they have a vested interest in not promoting it. The power industry, however, is actively pursuing alternatives, and are building alternatives, such as the wind farms that are being built between Chicago and Indianapolis.

They cost 10-30 million each and operating costs are a quarter to a half million per day once built.


Zero.

Unlike you, I actually looked this information up so you're the only one guessing, assuming, and estimating about oil companies and taxation.

Unlike me?

http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2010/05/oil_company_subsidies.html

Much of the taxes that oil companies currently pay (which are actually paid for by consumers) are direct subsidies for alternative energy. "Green" energy cannot compete in a free market, so it has to be massively subsidized with oil money to compete against the oil companies.

Actually, most of the taxes paid by consumers at the pump are state taxes and much of that goes directly into their petroluem storage tank assurance fund, which pays for mitigation of contamination at underground storage tanks sites (a taxpayer bail out for the environmental disaster the petroleum industry has caused for using faulty equipment).

Really? We've been working on Solar since the 1950's, spent billions upon billions on R&D, and it accounts for a whopping 0.09% of our total energy. Wind doesn't fair much better, so I'm wondering what progress you're referring to here...

Most of the progress has been in technology advancement. Today's solar cells are not the same as what existed in the 1950s and 1960s. And yet, as you have said, they aren't in widspread usage, primarily because of the high capital costs. But look at the model of the computer industry. The first home computer wasn't much more than a glorified calculator and was very expensive. Today, I can build a computer that is orders of magnitude more power, and build it for a fraction of the cost of that original home computer. So what is wrong with the energy industry today that it cannot adopt such a business model? Because the dinosaurs who run it refuse to change.

Their location is incredibly limited, the size of wind farms is an issue, so is the noise, and don't forget about the treehuggers who will be blocking you every step of the way because they kill birds and interrupt their migration patterns.

Noise? That's priceless. Wind farms aren't going to go into your neighborhood. There are millions of acres of aerable farmland in the midwest that could have wind farms built on them with minimal impact.

And I was the one who pointed out you need backup power plants for wind and solar because of their inefficiency and reliability issues. Those back up power plants still have to be manned 24/7, they still have to have an adequate supply of fuel, not to mention maintenance, which is part of why alternatives are so much more expensive to operate than just having a traditional power plant.

You don't need backup plants, because wind farms, like EVERY ENERGY SOURCE currently in use, will be plugged into the grid, which, by the way, already exists. It will reduce the need for additional dirty plants, but will reduce the load on existing plants, cutting back on dirty energy production, and reducing greenhouse gases. The power companies apparently find this prospect appealing, which is why many of them are actively looking at the technology, while others are already utilizing it to some extent.


You never have explained how you are going to get past the NIMBY crowd. Do you think you could at least try to address that?

How many people live on a farm in Iowa? Or Illinois? Kansas? Etc, etc, etc.

3804034906_32874565ff.jpg
 
http://www.environmentalleader.com/2007/03/19/sunpower-tops-list-of-best-solar-panel-manufacturers/

Solar Panels
No.1 in World -? SunPower (USA)
No.2 in World -? Schott Solar (Germany)
No.3 in World -? SolarWorld (Germany)

Best Product Quality -? Sanyo (Japan)

Best Value for Money -? Suntech (China)

Solar Inverters
No.1 in World -? Kaco (Germany)
No.2 in World -? OutBack (USA)
No.3 in World -? Mastervolt (USA)

Best Product Quality -? OutBack (USA)

Best Value for Money -? Kaco (Germany)

Solar Mounting Systems
No.1 in World -? Direct Power and Water (USA)
No.2 in World -? UniRac (USA)
No.3 in World -? SchA?A??A?AA¼co (Germany)

Solar Trackers
No.1 in World -? Zomeworks (USA)

Solar PV Systems
No.1 in World -? Sharp (Japan)
____________________
Gee, I don't see BP listed there anywhere.
 
How many people live on a farm in Iowa?
That doesn't answer my question. Are you going to pay people to have wind and solar farms on their property? Are you going to use government to confiscate the land under eminent domain? Are you going to use federal lands?

Yes [Home geothermal] does use electricity
I said that...

Was wasn't talking about geothermal power plants

Oh, you "was wasn't" talking about geothermal power plants... Thanks for clearing that up. :rolleyes:

which quite obviously are limited to regions where the geothermal graident is high
I said that...

As for those pesky Earthquakes, not one has cause significant damage or loss of life.
Never claimed they did, just that earthquakes result from using the technology.

Nearly all of tose earthquakes have been of a mgnitude 4 or less.
That's only the equivalent of exploding 12,228 pounds (or 6 tons) of TNT...

Nonsense. They'd be bankrupt. Obviously, they are not.
I guess we'll have to add operating a business to the list of things you know nothing about...

Do oil companies currently pay too little in taxes compared to profits?

"The answer to [that] question is that over the past 25 years, oil companies directly paid or remitted more than $2.2 trillion in taxes, after adjusting for inflation, to federal and state governments—including excise taxes, royalty payments and state and federal corporate income taxes. That amounts to more than three times what they earned in profits during the same period, according to the latest numbers from the Bureau of Economic Analysis and U.S. Department of Energy.

These figures do not include local property taxes, state sales and severance taxes and on-shore royalty payments."
Once you add those in, along with UST and other government mandated operating fees, oil companies pay just over 4x as much in taxes as they make in profit.

Exxon mobile's profit margin in recent years has been in the range of 30%.
I though you were a Geologist. You'd have to be an astronaut to pull that 30% stat out of Uranus.

Exxon Mobil Profit Margin: 8.17%

Exxon's profit margin peaked in Dec '06 at 11.3%, don't be too sad, you were only off by 18.7%.

You really should get your information from legitimate sources... Citing "facts" you learned from Progressive propaganda mills, such as American Progress, just makes you look (more) silly.

The area in the private sector with the capital needed to research alternative energy is the petroleum industry
I'm adding the cost of operating an oil company to the list of things you know nothing about.

The power industry, however, is actively pursuing alternatives, and are building alternatives
Be sure to thank a taxpayer because we're the ones footing the bill.

Unlike me?
Yes, unlike you. Remember when you guessed that oil received more in subsidies than alternatives? You probably should have looked that up... Unless of course you enjoy looking foolish, in which case keep up the good work!

f


Look who's the #1 recipient of government subsidies! The "end use" subsidy that comes in at #2, that's a subsidy to consumers for purchasing alternative energy and energy efficient products, such as solar panels, home geo, home windmills, energy efficient doors and windows, home insulation, etc.

Don't use up those feelings of humiliation all at once, I have a great deal more to cover.

Up next is the Progressive claim that oil companies are getting massive tax breaks.

Tax breaks for big oil is a popular talking point among Progressives, so popular that FactCheck went about debunking the claim...

Oil Company Tax Breaks?

Both leading Democratic candidates have referred to tax breaks to oil companies:

Clinton, July 23, 2007: First of all, I have proposed a strategic energy fund that I would fund by taking away the tax break for the oil companies, which have gotten much greater under Bush and Cheney.

Obama, June 22, 2007: In the face of furious lobbying, Congress brushed aside incentives for the production of more renewable fuels in favor of more tax breaks for the oil and gas companies.

Both candidates are referring to H.R. 6, the 2005 energy bill that contained $14.3 billion in subsidies for energy companies. However, as we’ve reported numerous times, a vast majority of those subsidies (all but $2.8 billion) were for nuclear power, energy-efficient cars and buildings, and renewable fuels research. In addition, according to the nonpartisan Congressional Research Service, the tax changes in the 2005 energy bill produced a net tax increase for the oil and gas companies, as we’ve reported time and time and time again. They did get some breaks, but they had more taken away.

-Emi Kolawole


Progressives don't like the truth getting in the way of their talking points so they keep repeating the lie and FactCheck just goes right on debunking them every time.

Actually, most of the taxes paid by consumers at the pump are state taxes
You really excel at being wrong, must be a Progressive thing.

Gas @ $4.00 - Of that money:
Exxon Profit 10.5% (0.42c/gallon)
Gas Tax (.18:Fed+.28:State=.46c/gallon) <---Direct tax
Indirect taxes - those levied on Oil Companies - are shown over a 25 year period to be 3 times what oil companies make in profits... that's $1.26 @$4.00/gal.
Total profit from one gallon of gas @ $4.00/gal:
Exxon made $0.42c
Uncle Sam raked in: $1.72

Not included are local property taxes, state sales and severance taxes, government fees, and on-shore royalty payments, all of which add to the cost of a gallon of gasoline and increase the amount of money raked in by Uncle Sam.

most of the taxes paid by consumers at the pump are state taxes and much of that goes directly into their petroluem storage tank assurance fund...a taxpayer bail out
You know... If you get tired of being wrong, I suggest you remove all the progressive websites from your bookmarks and replace them with legitimate sources of information before speaking.

I'll start with state and federal gas taxes and what they fund...

Title II of the Federal-Aid Highway Act - entitled the Highway Revenue Act of 1956 - created the Highway Trust Fund as a dedicated source for the Interstate System.

Revenue from the Federal gas and other motor-vehicle user taxes was credited to the Highway Trust Fund to pay the Federal share of Interstate and all other Federal-aid highway projects.

That accounts for the 18c/gal of federal tax on the sale of gasoline. State taxes on gasoline differ from state to state but all the states use that money to fund transportation programs, such as building and maintaining roads. These taxes aren't enough so the transportation fund also gets revenue from other sources such as vehicle registration fees and federal assistance.

In short, the direct taxes on gasoline at the pump do not help to pay for the Congressionally mandated UST assurance fund... The UST funds come from annual fees and per tank fees on the owners of the 607,000 UST's in the country and these fees bring in roughly $1 billion per year to the fund.

The purpose of the fund is to make sure UST owners have enough money to clean up any spills and compensate third parties. There is also private insurance which does the same thing but participation in the UST fund is mandatory for UST owners.

Today's solar cells are not... in widspread usage, primarily because of the high capital costs. But look at the model of the computer industry.
Indeed you should look at the model of the computer industry. There were no government regulations, there were no government subsidies, no government grants, no government mandates... Government stayed the hell out of the way and the computer industry skyrocketed as a result.

Being tethered to government in exchange for pecuniary advantages is dramatically slowing down the progress of alternative energy technology.

So what is wrong with the energy industry today that it cannot adopt such a business model?
Bill Gates and Steve Jobs offered a product superior to anything else available. You're wanting to replace superior products with inferior ones, subsidized by taxpayers, and you can't figure out why that's not catching on?

Noise? That's priceless.


And you forgot about the treehuggers...

Humane Society fights Windmill Construction

The power companies apparently find this prospect appealing
They are being massively subsidized by taxpayers, that makes any business venture look more appealing.

I look forward to seeing the results of your next fact finding trip to Uranus.
 
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Gee, I don't see BP listed there anywhere.
The list stops at 3...

http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/partner/bp-solar-2046

BP Solar, part of BP Alternative Energy, is a global company with that designs, manufactures and markets products which use the sun's energy to generate electricity for use in the residential, commercial and industrial sectors. With over 35 years of experience and installations in most countries, BP Solar is one of the world's leading solar companies.

You'd better contact Renewable Energy World and inform them that BP Solar has to be one of the top 3 companies before you consider them a world leader. :rolleyes:
 
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