Define conservatism

[Friendindeed]

And as I pointed out, that time is long past. Islam still has the mindset that it had in its early days and is behavinig in the same manner. To the best of my knowledge, (with some very far flung exceptions) islam is the only religion in the world that is going about killing in all nations in the name of their religion. If you can provide evidence that Christians are going about fighting a holy war against anyone, I would be interested in seeing it.

"going about killing in all nations" ?
I don't think so.

 

[palerider]

They are trying to procure WMDs for the same reason we have WMDs. Because in this day and age any leader would want not his coutry to be at a disadvantage.

It is political bro, not religious.

If you believe that, in the face of what is happening across the world today, you are terribly naive'. Do you believe OBL wants wmd for political reasons? Do you believer Abu Nidal Organization wants WMD for political reasons? And when they finally get their hands on them, do you believe for a second that it won't be from an islamic nation?

 

[palerider]

The IRA. Do I get to go to the head of the class ?

Killing all over the world are they? What has it been now, 10 years since they claimed responsibility for a killing?

 

[Friendindeed]

So show me some news articles that state clearly that we are waging a holy war against iraq as opposed to waging a war because the iraquis have flaunted UN resolution after resolution for over a decade.

It is clear that they are waging their war for religious reasons, because they say so. Provide some evidence that we are waging war for religious reasons.

Theirs is political too like I told you before. Yes they would want WMDs for political reasons.

TVoffBrainOn's example is a good one and Bush has often couched it in terms of good and evil.
So what's the difference ?

As far as Lily she asked you a question which you didn't answer too, so your gloating might be premature.

 

[palerider]

"going about killing in all nations" ?
I don't think so.

Which nation has not heard someone cry allahu akbar just before someone else died? Antarctica?

 

[palerider]

Theirs is political too like I told you before. Yes they would want WMDs for political reasons.

TVoffBrainOn's example is a good one and Bush has often couched it in terms of good and evil.
So what's the difference ?

No, most islamic terrorists stated reasons are religious and they use the qur'an as justification.

What is the difference between killing because your religion demands it and waging war against a nation for flaunting UN resolution after resolution? Do you really need an explanation?

As far as Lily she asked you a question which you didn't answer too, so your gloating might be premature.

What question?

 

[Friendindeed]

Which nation has not heard someone cry allahu akbar just before someone else died? Antarctica?

Wales ? Ecuador ? Probably a whole bunch of countries.

 

[Friendindeed]

No, most islamic terrorists stated reasons are religious and they use the qur'an as justification.

You don't understand how attached their political and religious issues are.

What question?

Actually three questions if you count the other thread.
In this one the question was way back there and it was what do you plan to do about it.
I would like to see you answer that.
Time to go to work now.

 

[palerider]

Wales ? Ecuador ? Probably a whole bunch of countries.

Wales? Not a good bet there. Remember the millenium stadium threat?

with an islamic population of only 400 in the entire country, it isn't surprising that ecuador hasn't experienced islamic terror. Give them a decade though. Same goes for peru and the rest of south america.

 

[palerider]

You don't understand how attached their political and religious issues are.{/quote]

Their religious issues are thier political issues. They are one in the same.



Actually three questions if you count the other thread.
In this one the question was way back there and it was what do you plan to do about it.

Do about what?

 

[Lilly Marlene]

We both know that the reason you aren't going to do it is because you can't do it. If you could, you would gleefully slap me down with it.

Eh, "slap you down with it" ? Does this have to be quite so adversarial ?

You know dang well I had just finished telling you yesterday that I was about to go outside.

I do not know that I *can't do it*. I suspect I probably can't ...
but by the same token, why would I ?
After all, I never told you I could find six news stories like that - you pulled that right out of thin air.

And call foul all you like. Maybe you have the capacity to ignore literally dozens of stories in the news every day highlighting the violent nature of islam in favor of your romantic andalusian myths, but I don't. The reality is that most of the violence in the world today can be laid at the feet of islam.

The calling foul was on your attributing to him something he didn't say.
And I see that you still think that the flowering of Jewish culture under Islamic rule in Spain is a "myth". That tells me you didn't watch the video (and probably didn't investigate the other most recent link I gave you either).

Sure do appreciate that palerider, especially since I've looked at everything you have given me.

Which explains why they support and finance terrorism that kills jews indiscriminately as opposed to targeting only zionist interests?

Is that going to be a "because you say so" contention ? Or are you going to pull out an article in Mr. Zuckerman's newsmag that foams and spews against Iran [yes I saw several more in there when I went to your link].

Listen please,
I told you yesterday I wanted to stop arguing about whether Islam/Muslims are evil or not, because it isn't getting us any place.

I want to write to you now as though we can actually use language to communicate instead of just compete.

This will probably not be very good writing...
I'll tell you why later but you may notice I've never been here at this hour of the morning before and that is directly related to the predicament I'm in now.

Please be aware that I have been keeping track of the runup to war with Iran since last Fall - the demonizing, the execrable insinuations, even connections theorized between Iran and 911 (yes I heard those connections being manufactured on CNN also).

I notice that you discussed the present war in Iraq with TVoffBrainOn, to the extent of mentioning violated treaties.

Recall that when you and I began this discussion, you were telling me that US activity in Iraq was about liberation, getting freedom for the Iraqis and clearing the way for the little girls to go to school and so forth
[see the early phases of this thread].

And apparently neither one of those seemed a good enough reason back in 2002-2003 to the current administration, who thought it more effective to insist that Iraq - beyond the shadow of a doubt - had weapons of mass destruction.

In other words,
the "deciders" will always be able to scare up reasons to go to war, when they want to go to war.

And now their desire is for war with Iran - and composing a rationale has been their project for some time.

palerider, here is what my own predicament is today:

We had a minor catastrophe last night just before I took a shower and I have not slept AT ALL since Sunday night.
The catastrophe involved a burst pipe [not frozen; it was PVC].

There is no water yet; I cannot have coffee or even wash my face.

I am home waiting for an insurance man to come here.
And after that I hope to take a little nap.

But what I want to tell you is this: it's very distressing to have one's routine altered in this way.
Still,
I know that the water is going to come back on soon.

Suppose I had no way to know when it was going to come back on.

Suppose I had a baby who had just been weaned and needed water very badly, and I had no way to know when it was going to come back on.

Suppose I had an aged parent who was clamoring for water and I didn't know when it was going to come back on.
And,
No one would be able to wash or go to the toilet either ...outside there would quite possibly be danger too, so we'd have to stay indoors for an unspecified length of time.

Something might even come pounding in or fall and hit babies while they sleep and they would never sleep completely at peace for the rest of their lives ...which would also have implications into the next generations.

That's all I wanted to say to you and I hope it didn't ramble too much because of the state of me ...that this small catastrophe (tiny really in the larger scheme of things) has brought to me a hint of what it must be like to live in a country at war.

Is that really the optimal way to go about putting this world to rights, in your opinion ?

 

[Friendindeed]

Fantastic exit.
RIP thread.

 

[Friendindeed]

Do about what?

Do about the problem you posed of Islam=radical Islam. The question was way back in the thread, I would have liked to see you answer that.

 

[palerider]

Is that really the optimal way to go about putting this world to rights, in your opinion ?

All of the "inconveniences" you mention were going on to a greater degree while saddam was in power, except of course, in his palaces plus there was always the possibility of his republican guard hauling you out in the middle of the night for a torture or rape session as the result of something that one of your relatives said about saddam.

There are times when war is the lesser of two evils. The number that have died since this war began has been less than the number that saddam would have killed just doing business as usual.

 

[palerider]

Do about the problem you posed of Islam=radical Islam. The question was way back in the thread, I would have liked to see you answer that.

I take the time to learn who the enemy and why he hates me and vote for representatives who have taken the time to learn the same. That is what we do here, as opposed to strapping on bombs and telling those nearby that allah is greater just before we kill them.