Capitalism worked

[Pandora]

Bill Clinton. He had little money, and ascended all the way to president. Now... he's wealthy. Jeffrey Skilling, Enron CEO, tons of money. How much power did he have since he's now serving 24 years? Clinton committed felonies, and complete skirted justice..

Didn't he have his license to practice law taken away for 5 years or something?

 

[Andy]

Andy seems to have a perception that if it's not manual labour then it's not work. I'm wondering if this goes as far as saying that if a person made his fortune by flipping houses or trading stocks then he hasn't worked a day in his life, as Andy puts it.

Flipping houses and trading stock requires work and effort. When you do such things, you are a producer. You produce wealth by fixing up a home and reselling it. Or you produce by trading stocks for a profit.

Being on the public dole for life produces nothing. Any idiot can be elected.

"You know the one thing that's wrong with this country? Everyone gets a chance to have their fair say." -- Bill Clinton in 1993, Philadeplphia.

"Who ARE these people?" -- Al Gore while looking at busts of the Founding Fathers at Monticello

"I actually did vote for the $87 billion, before I voted against it." —Sen. John Kerry, on voting against a military funding bill for U.S. troops in Iraq

Finding himself talking to the controversial rock star Courtney Love, widow of Kurt Cobain, at a Hollywood party, Mr. Gore attempted to charm her by telling her he was a fan. "He goes 'I'm a really big fan'," said Love. "And I was like 'Yeah, right. Name a song, Al'." The answer came limply back: "I can't name a song, I'm just a really big fan."

 

[Andy]

Didn't he have his license to practice law taken away for 5 years or something?

Indeed he did. But he has made millions on speeches at sympathetic liberal universities, he was given a 6-figure salary from business he supported during his administration, like scandal ridden InfoUSA, and from book deals that never sold much. I'm still looking for someone that actually read his book. Not to mention his continuing connection to the Lippo banking Group that funneled money to him for missile technology sold to China, which is not passed off to Iran.

 

[Andy]

It's part of the solution and a significant part of the issue which is being addressed. That was, the cost of gasoline to Americans and not the cost of a barrel of oil. It's disingenuous to put it down and I'm not going to spend my time trying to convince you. I need to reorganize my time and it makes sense to me to just ignore stupidity based on partisan politics.

Right, the cost of a barrel of oil in no way effects the cost of gasoline, which is why inflating tires will help... I agree with you. An argument based on this um... 'logic' would be a waste to try and convince me. In fact it would be a waste to try and convince any rational persons of that argument.

No, not 10% but do you even care how much.

So do you think that reducing less than a fraction of 1% of the worlds oil consumption is going to in any way, reduce the cost of gasoline?

It has been predicted that India and China alone could be demanding somewhere around 120 million barrels a day in the next 30 years. The world currently produces about 85 or 86 million barrels a day and the US uses 20mm/day. And you think that an additional million barrels a day is significant if it comes online in 3 to 5 years time? I'm not saying that it wouldn't but you need to weigh the costs of offshore drilling and drilling in ANWR with the benefits. We could talk about that.

You mention China, yet China has an off shore drilling rig right near Florida in Cuban waters. So clearly they think drilling is the way to go. If they are drilling there, why not us?

1 Million is the base figure for ANWR. This is how much they know we can get now easily. It is possible after drilling and exploring in that area, that would could produce much more. But the outer continental shelf (ocs) in the gulf of mexico, could produce vastly more than that.

So the answer is yes, I do believe that drilling could easily vastly increase the supply of crude oil, and reduce the price. Remember, all we really have to do is produce enough to cover our own consumption. If we can increase our own production of oil to the point we don't need to import, our prices will drop considerably, while the rest of the world oil market is irrelevant.

 

[UShadItComing]

Andy asked:

So do you think that reducing less than a fraction of 1% of the worlds oil consumption is going to in any way, reduce the cost of gasoline?

No Andy, and once again with feeling. inflating tires to the high end of the proper pressure and keeping them there is going to save a significant % on gasoline. Not to mention keep your highways safer.

You mention China, yet China has an off shore drilling rig right near Florida in Cuban waters. So clearly they think drilling is the way to go. If they are drilling there, why not us?

And so is the US drilling offshore cause I've seen the rigs. Just not everywhere offshore and depending on what 'offshore' means.

1 Million is the base figure for ANWR. This is how much they know we can get now easily. It is possible after drilling and exploring in that area, that would could produce much more. But the outer continental shelf (ocs) in the gulf of mexico, could produce vastly more than that.

Some tradeoffs are not worth it but that's up to you what you do with your country. I would stay away from it because it's an electioneering scam and nothing more. But it's a good one that's going to work well with stupid lemmings granted!

So the answer is yes, I do believe that drilling could easily vastly increase the supply of crude oil, and reduce the price. Remember, all we really have to do is produce enough to cover our own consumption. If we can increase our own production of oil to the point we don't need to import, our prices will drop considerably, while the rest of the world oil market is irrelevant.

Trouble is Andy, until a few months ago all you cons were saying that the continental US had lots of oil but the liberals wouldn't permit drilling and exploration or the oil companies were holding back to keep the price up. Now we have you as one example of a con implying that the price of oil is because of a shortage. Now we know that the reason why the oil companies weren't drilling and exploring in the continental US was because you're tapped out. Try to bullsh-t somebody else Andy, I've been active on the peakoil forum for years now and I know all the lines from the cons.

 

[Andy]

No Andy, and once again with feeling. inflating tires to the high end of the proper pressure and keeping them there is going to save a significant % on gasoline. Not to mention keep your highways safer.

Ok so lets recap. Oil prices are high. Obama's plan is 'ya'll inflate yer tires'. We established it would not reduce oil consumption by 1%. When asked if less than one percent reduction in oil usage would result in lower oil prices, you said "No Andy..." and then "proper pressure... is going to save a significant % on gasoline"

So... basically Obama's national energy plan, is nothing more than a gasoline savings tip, for private individuals to a save, at most, 3.3% on gasoline a year? A gas savings tip that can be found in a million places all over the net and in every car magazine, every news paper, and has been broadcasted on network news more times than I can count... yet admittedly, will have no impact on the oil prices that we're dealing with?

This is how supporters of Obama think he should deal with national policy, by reciting the owners manuel of a car? Yeah I think doing an oil change once every 3 months, and having a tune up every 5 years, will improve engine performance and improve milage. Don't forget to check your belts and hoses. Ok now I'm ready to be president.

And so is the US drilling offshore cause I've seen the rigs. Just not everywhere offshore and depending on what 'offshore' means.

In this case, the outer continental shelf, which 90% of the acres there are off limits by federal law.

Some tradeoffs are not worth it but that's up to you what you do with your country. I would stay away from it because it's an electioneering scam and nothing more. But it's a good one that's going to work well with stupid lemmings granted!

See, this is the beauty of Capitalism. Let us say for example, that you are right. Let us say that (insert whoever) Shell, blows $10 Billion on drilling in (where ever it is you claim it's a scam). Who loses? Shell loses. Not us.

On the other hand, in a socialistic economy, who loses? Us, the tax payers that fund the public company.

Just like France with their 1/3rd more maintenance techs, than rail cars. Who loses? The people of France. They pay for that stupidity.

Trouble is Andy, until a few months ago all you cons were saying that the continental US had lots of oil but the liberals wouldn't permit drilling and exploration or the oil companies were holding back to keep the price up. Now we have you as one example of a con implying that the price of oil is because of a shortage. Now we know that the reason why the oil companies weren't drilling and exploring in the continental US was because you're tapped out. Try to bullsh-t somebody else Andy, I've been active on the peakoil forum for years now and I know all the lines from the cons.

The two statements are not contradictory. Is it possible there is plenty of oil in the ground, and a shortage of oil produced and available for sale? Why yes, yes it is.

So, is it possible that liberals preventing drilling could cause a shortage of crude oil production? Yes, yes it is.

Here are some facts. The US geological survey, claims there is as much as 1 trillion barrels of oil in the lower 48 states that is not being tapped.

In fact, the idea we are tapped out, is a joke. You must have your mind completely closed off to any external data to believe this.

As I stated in other posts, one guy in Indiana, rented a drilling rig, drilled a well in his back yard, and is selling crude oil from his home. If we're 'tapped out', how did he do that?

Anthony Young, the owner of a combination gas station and short-order cafe on a state highway in Tennessee, bought a drilling rig, and has drilled 72 wells and struck oil on 57 of them. Wait, we're tapped out! That's not possible!

The real answer is, we are not entirely sure just how much oil is in our land. Why? Because we haven't looked for it. Why do we know there is oil in ANWR? Because we looked there. How do we know there is billions of barrels of oil in OCS? Because we looked. There are tons of lands all across our country that could have tons of oil, and we'll never know, unless we look.

 

[Dr.Who]

Ok so lets recap. Oil prices are high. Obama's plan is 'ya'll inflate yer tires'. We established it would not reduce oil consumption by 1%. When asked if less than one percent reduction in oil usage would result in lower oil prices, you said "No Andy..." and then "proper pressure... is going to save a significant % on gasoline"

So... basically Obama's national energy plan, is nothing more than a gasoline savings tip, for private individuals to a save, at most, 3.3% on gasoline a year? A gas savings tip that can be found in a million places all over the net and in every car magazine, every news paper, and has been broadcasted on network news more times than I can count... yet admittedly, will have no impact on the oil prices that we're dealing with?

This is how supporters of Obama think he should deal with national policy, by reciting the owners manuel of a car? Yeah I think doing an oil change once every 3 months, and having a tune up every 5 years, will improve engine performance and improve milage. Don't forget to check your belts and hoses. Ok now I'm ready to be president.

Unless he doesn't want prices to go down. Then his national policy would be something that sounds more like "forks for you" or "fork you" I don't know, the Youtube quality was poor on that one. So why does he want us all to have forks anyway?

 

[Andy]

Unless he doesn't want prices to go down. Then his national policy would be something that sounds more like "forks for you" or "fork you" I don't know, the Youtube quality was poor on that one. So why does he want us all to have forks anyway?

See I actually expect politicians to say stupid things. I have rarely if ever, found one that didn't say ridiculous statements throughout their career, unless they just didn't talk much.

But what gets me is the supporters of them! I mean, when McCain says something dumb, supporters bemoan it. You know, man I'll still vote for him, but what the crud was he thinking there??

Obama supporters actually embrace the stupidity! Yeah new national policy! Tire inflation! We need public air pumps at every street corner! Now we got a darn good energy plan thanks to Obama!

This is the guy who spent 22 years in the Church of hate, and then played it off like he didn't know, or disagreed with everything taught there, and supporters bought it completely! Yeah Obama doesn't believe all that anti-white, G-d damn America stuff... I know cause he said so!

With supporters this completely stupid... I couldn't possibly vote for him, just cause of the crowd that it would link me to. Sorry... I'm just not that plain stupid. The quality of a leader is not much better than the quality of the group that follows him. If they are this 'Forrest Gumpish' (Obama always told me...), then we clearly do not need him as president.

 

[UShadItComing]

Ok so lets recap. Oil prices are high. Obama's plan is 'ya'll inflate yer tires'. We established it would not reduce oil consumption by 1%. When asked if less than one percent reduction in oil usage would result in lower oil prices, you said "No Andy..." and then "proper pressure... is going to save a significant % on gasoline"

Oh my dawwwg Andy, you are really grasping at straws now. Did you think that was Obama's only plan? Yes, inflating tires will save on gas consumption and I think it's estimated to be significant. What is wrong with you lad? You don't cut your nose off to spite your face. If you do that then you will always make $24,000 a year!

So... basically Obama's national energy plan, is nothing more than a gasoline savings tip, for private individuals to a save, at most, 3.3% on gasoline a year? A gas savings tip that can be found in a million places all over the net and in every car magazine, every news paper, and has been broadcasted on network news more times than I can count... yet admittedly, will have no impact on the oil prices that we're dealing with?

No Andy, it's not his plan.

This is how supporters of Obama think he should deal with national policy, by reciting the owners manuel of a car? Yeah I think doing an oil change once every 3 months, and having a tune up every 5 years, will improve engine performance and improve milage. Don't forget to check your belts and hoses. Ok now I'm ready to be president.

No Andy, you're not ready yet but you are getting it as well or better than old McCain.

In this case, the outer continental shelf, which 90% of the acres there are off limits by federal law.



See, this is the beauty of Capitalism. Let us say for example, that you are right. Let us say that (insert whoever) Shell, blows $10 Billion on drilling in (where ever it is you claim it's a scam). Who loses? Shell loses. Not us.

I claimed is a scam? Come back Andy, come back.

On the other hand, in a socialistic economy, who loses? Us, the tax payers that fund the public company.

See my question to Rob and the Gen as to my confusion on what you're on about now.

Just like France with their 1/3rd more maintenance techs, than rail cars. Who loses? The people of France. They pay for that stupidity.

That is my point with keeping just 500 beds and relying on others to pick up a surge. Maybe you're a smarter young man than I gave you credit for.

The two statements are not contradictory. Is it possible there is plenty of oil in the ground, and a shortage of oil produced and available for sale? Why yes, yes it is.

Ho hum.

So, is it possible that liberals preventing drilling could cause a shortage of crude oil production? Yes, yes it is.

In theory it is possible. In practice and experinence it is hogwash!

Here are some facts. The US geological survey, claims there is as much as 1 trillion barrels of oil in the lower 48 states that is not being tapped.

Probably more but the mere fact that you would make that claim tells me that you are out to lunch. With rabid righties probably! The earh probably still has 100 times the amount of oil that has ever been taken out of the ground still there. YOu're not ready for a serious discussion on that at this time.

In fact, the idea we are tapped out, is a joke. You must have your mind completely closed off to any external data to believe this.

THe preponderance of evidence says you are wrong and your head's about a yard up your rectum.

As I stated in other posts, one guy in Indiana, rented a drilling rig, drilled a well in his back yard, and is selling crude oil from his home. If we're 'tapped out', how did he do that?

How many million barrels a day is he producing? LOL

Anthony Young, the owner of a combination gas station and short-order cafe on a state highway in Tennessee, bought a drilling rig, and has drilled 72 wells and struck oil on 57 of them. Wait, we're tapped out! That's not possible!

Dear silly Andy, do you often rely on these kind of Anecdotal stories?

The real answer is, we are not entirely sure just how much oil is in our land. Why? Because we haven't looked for it. Why do we know there is oil in ANWR? Because we looked there. How do we know there is billions of barrels of oil in OCS? Because we looked. There are tons of lands all across our country that could have tons of oil, and we'll never know, unless we look.

You should have started looking before oil got expensive but you didn't. And it's because of the mean liberals who wanted to bring on this crisis because McCain always has said that he was in favour of alternative energy. Didn't he?

Who the fu-k cares, you're toast because you weren't interested in alternative energy because you cons always insisted there was lots of oil left. So stop crying to Canada for 5 million barrels a day. Alright already?

 

[GenSeneca]

you weren't interested in alternative energy

Under President Bush, Wind Power alone saw a 300% expansion.

Environmentalists used lawsuits and obstacles in Congress to shut down or thwart the other planned sites, it would have been a 500% increase... Ted Kennedy even shut down one that would have been 22 miles off the coast of where he has a summer home, and he didn't want to risk it spoiling his view.

 

[Libsmasher]

Under President Bush, Wind Power alone saw a 300% expansion.

Environmentalists used lawsuits and obstacles in Congress to shut down or thwart the other planned sites, it would have been a 500% increase... Ted Kennedy even shut down one that would have been 22 miles off the coast of where he has a summer home, and he didn't want to risk it spoiling his view.

I remember that - an example of how only average people suffer from rich libs bad ideas - they always get an exemption for themselves. Remember Al Gores's megawatt house?

 

[BigRob]

No Andy, It's not his plan.

Please articulate his plan for us.

Probably more but the mere fact that you would make that claim tells me that you are out to lunch. With rabid righties probably! The earh probably still has 100 times the amount of oil that has ever been taken out of the ground still there. YOu're not ready for a serious discussion on that at this time.

Didn't you just claim we were "tapped out."

You should have started looking before oil got expensive but you didn't. And it's because of the mean liberals who wanted to bring on this crisis because McCain always has said that he was in favour of alternative energy. Didn't he?

People have been looking for years. Before oil got expensive none of it was actually viable to use in the market for the most part.

Who the fu-k cares, you're toast because you weren't interested in alternative energy because you cons always insisted there was lots of oil left. So stop crying to Canada for 5 million barrels a day. Alright already?

There is a lot of oil left, if we would be allowed to drill it. And once the US does switch over to alternatives, I hope Canada can find a new market to export to.

 

[UShadItComing]

Please articulate his plan for us.

I think it's got something to do with exploring all forms of alternative energy and not relying so heavily on oil. But that's not the point is it. The point being that it's stupid to scoff at inflating tires to close to the max.

Didn't you just claim we were "tapped out."

For christ sake, I'm not going to go back to the beginning and hold your hand through this again.

People have been looking for years. Before oil got expensive none of it was actually viable to use in the market for the most part.

So now it's not the bad libs who kept you from drilling?

There is a lot of oil left, if we would be allowed to drill it. And once the US does switch over to alternatives, I hope Canada can find a new market to export to.

I'm not going to go back to the beginning and try to get you to understand the difference between affordable oil and oil that's not affordable. As for Canada finding a new market to export to: Have you morphed into a Abomination or a Sihoette? You're wasting my time now and I ain't gonna play that game.

Or are you really just stupid? Your choice pal.

 

[GenSeneca]

I think it's got something to do with exploring all forms of alternative energy and not relying so heavily on oil.

Wow, thats a really detailed plan.. I can see why it impresses you so much.

 

[UShadItComing]

Wow, thats a really detailed plan.. I can see why it impresses you so much.

I've decided to treat you like a grownup for a while so have a look at my response to the same issue on the other thread. It has to do with Obama's plan to reduce gas prices or his lack of a plan, whatever.