Abortion: Right or Wrong?

[samsara15]

About partial birth abortion, just use basic common sense, logic and reasoning. Try really hard to think of any reason a sick and dying woman could benefit from a forced breech delivery, then try to find any reason why holding the head of the child inside the woman’s body till the child can be killed before you let the rest of the baby be born could ever even in one single case save a woman’s life. If anyone can come up with a real excuse how this could save a woman’s life I will concede that there are cases when a partial birth abortion can save the life of a mother.

I do not have an answer for you. Pandora, I make the assumption that the doctors act out of what they preceive to be the best interests of all involved, that the doctors are not evil, purely profit driven people, which may or may not be true. I certainly have my doubts about the motives of doctors in many other cases, in regards to the care they give people, so perhaps your doubts and fears are justifable, in many cases.

 

[ASPCA4EVER]

Pandora Said: About partial birth abortion, just use basic common sense, logic and reasoning. Try really hard to think of any reason a sick and dying woman could benefit from a forced breech delivery, then try to find any reason why holding the head of the child inside the woman’s body till the child can be killed before you let the rest of the baby be born could ever even in one single case save a woman’s life. If anyone can come up with a real excuse how this could save a woman’s life I will concede that there are cases when a partial birth abortion can save the life of a mother.

Without the 'ACTUAL MEDICAL RECORDS' for the reason/cause that a doctor and the mother decides that a 'LATE TERM ABORTION' is the only 'OPTION'...would be like arguing you out of the reason why we grow up with unrealistic fears of the 'BOOGIE MAN/THE DARK/THINGS UNDER OUR BED'.

Your imagination has no foundation for your irrational thought process...but you'll cling to that as a 'LOGICAL TRUTH'...you are what you 'FEEL' and you are passionate about it too! Yet, you keep pleading with the rest of us to provide you a 'REASON' to change your mind...hmm How were you able to arrive at this 'LOGICAL TRUTH' without the facts and medical records that brought about this illogical thought processes??? Your 'LOGICAL TRUTH' is based only on what you were told by some wrong intentioned biased agenda driven humans! You've been brain washed and no one can change your mind and undo the fabrication that they {the agenda driven Pro-Life crowd} have provide you with!

The 'BOOGIE MAN' may still be out there lurking around every dark corner of the world just waiting to get 'YOU' too...LOL

 

[Pandora]

I do not have an answer for you. Pandora, I make the assumption that the doctors act out of what they preceive to be the best interests of all involved, that the doctors are not evil, purely profit driven people, which may or may not be true. I certainly have my doubts about the motives of doctors in many other cases, in regards to the care they give people, so perhaps your doubts and fears are justifable, in many cases.

No one seems to have an answer to that question. I think some doctors are bad, not sure I would go as far as evil, I also think some are in it just for the money, and some are in it more for their personal agenda.

My vet is a good example, he is not in it for the money, he is in it more for promoting the treatment of animals in a way he feels is right. He will spay your pet for the lowest possible cost just because he thinks it’s important and he is a diet Nazi, he is not happy unless you can see your dogs ribs, and he does not think you should feed your dog people food or feed them more than once a day.. Other vets have other ideas, some care more about the $$ Doctors are no different.


I commend you for your answer, others just ignore the question all together and/or rant and rave and scream that you’re crazy or stupid instead of admitting they don’t know. There is nothing wrong with not knowing.

I am glad you tried to see it from my point of view, I do thank you for that. I guess that’s all anyone who bothers to write on these forums really wants…People to try and see it from their point of view and consider another train of thought.

I do try to understand the partial birth abortion and any value gained from it or benefit added to a woman’s life for having it, and I really just can not.

I am happy to say ... in some cases a partial birth abortion in the 7th 8th or 9th month could be needed in some cases to save a woman's life and here is why...{explanation here} but I can not find even the smallest reason hypothetical or not.

When and if someone presents to me a case scenario where it could really save a woman’s life, I will happily change my stance to...In some cases though they might be rare, it’s a needed thing.

Till that information is presented to me I can not agree or believe it could ever save a woman’s life.

 

[Pandora]

Without the 'ACTUAL MEDICAL RECORDS' for the reason/cause that a doctor and the mother decides that a 'LATE TERM ABORTION' is the only 'OPTION'...would be like arguing you out of the reason why we grow up with unrealistic fears of the 'BOOGIE MAN/THE DARK/THINGS UNDER OUR BED'.

Your imagination has no foundation for your irrational thought process...but you'll cling to that as a 'LOGICAL TRUTH'...you are what you 'FEEL' and you are passionate about it too! Yet, you keep pleading with the rest of us to provide you a 'REASON' to change your mind...hmm How were you able to arrive at this 'LOGICAL TRUTH' without the facts and medical records that brought about this illogical thought processes??? Your 'LOGICAL TRUTH' is based only on what you were told by some wrong intentioned biased agenda driven humans! You've been brain washed and no one can change your mind and undo the fabrication that they {the agenda driven Pro-Life crowd} have provide you with!

The 'BOOGIE MAN' may still be out there lurking around every dark corner of the world just waiting to get 'YOU' too...LOL

Your insults on the other thread were better done. These insults seem kind of flat...

 

[ASPCA4EVER]

Your insults on the other thread were better done. These insults seem kind of flat...

OOOOHHH, your just sooo mean and hateful...pass her the kleenex, I hear a crying jag coming this way!

Your ignorance and failure to respond to points about the topic is getting blatantly old and you have an abundance of pompous superiority that begs for sympathy and a passionate swift kick in the arse to restart your brain!!!

Continue to 'wail away' about how you just can't reach a different conclusion when your ability to manufacture the hysteria is so, so very self serving and well done!!! LOOKING GOOD MASTER OF HYSTERIA

 

[Pandora]

OOOOHHH, your just sooo mean and hateful...pass her the kleenex, I hear a crying jag coming this way!

Your ignorance and failure to respond to points about the topic is getting blatantly old and you have an abundance of pompous superiority that begs for sympathy and a passionate swift kick in the arse to restart your brain!!!

Continue to 'wail away' about how you just can't reach a different conclusion when your ability to manufacture the hysteria is so, so very self serving and well done!!! LOOKING GOOD MASTER OF HYSTERIA

I did respond to point; it is you that could not. I gave a list of reason why I believed what I do. You have nothing but rants and screaming and insults. You can not reply with any facts or even meaningful dialog, you scream and rant and say ROFLMAO then yell more insults. You call me ignorant but it is you who can not give any examples, even a hypothetical one as to why partial birth abortion is ever able to save a woman's life.

Your insults say more about you than they do me. So again I will ask you to please give even just one hypothetical example of how partially birthing a child after you have forced a sick and dying woman to deliver breech can ever save even one woman’s life.

I think you will either just ignore this like you did on the other thread or come back with more screaming and yelling insults, I don’t think you will even try to validate your opinion with an example of any sort.

Unlike you, I have no issues with you having an opinion, even one that differs from mine.. I respect that we all have a right to our own opinion. Also unlike you I think giving examples and explanations as to our opinions is helpful if you are going to have a meaningful dialog with someone.

 

[n0spam4me]

Space the Final frontier
that is the SPACE between Human ears!

... A woman gets off the bus and walks into a clinic .. (is she pregnant or just carring a bit of extra weight? ... & who's business is that?)
She is there for some time, (who is watching the clock here?) and then she leaves, gets back on the bus and is gone...
WHAT JUST HAPPENED? and without violating Doctor patient confidence, who's business is it to know?

What ... Big Brother is watching? BIG BROTHER IS A VOYEUR!

 

[ASPCA4EVER]

Pandora SPEWS: even a hypothetical one as to why partial birth abortion is ever able to save a woman's life.

Your insults say more about you than they do me. So again I will ask you to please give even just one hypothetical example of how partially birthing a child after you have forced a sick and dying woman to deliver breech can ever save even one woman’s life.

Well, here's a fine example of 'hysteria' and the 'rantings of the imaginary mind'...LMAO

You've made up your own reasons for despising Dr. Tiller and the service for which he is/was needed and the medical reasons that women have to search Dr. Tillers of the world out and seek his/their help...so why don't you just sit there in your little box of confusion and create your own hypothetical justification that best suits your world of 'make believe' and satisfy your own delusional mind...OMG...your world must be a very, very scary place in which to reside!!!

 

[Pandora]

Well, here's a fine example of 'hysteria' and the 'rantings of the imaginary mind'...LMAO

You've made up your own reasons for despising Dr. Tiller and the service for which he is/was needed and the medical reasons that women have to search Dr. Tillers of the world out and seek his/their help...so why don't you just sit there in your little box of confusion and create your own hypothetical justification that best suits your world of 'make believe' and satisfy your own delusional mind...OMG...your world must be a very, very scary place in which to reside!!!

I see I was right; you have nothing to offer but insults. No dialog, nothing of value. You can not defend your beliefs, all you can do is scream nonsensical insults at members who disagree with you... yet you can not articulate why you believe what you do, even in something as easy as a hypothetical.

 

[ASPCA4EVER]

I see I was right; you have nothing to offer but insults. No dialog, nothing of value. You can not defend your beliefs, all you can do is scream nonsensical insults at members who disagree with you... yet you can not articulate why you believe what you do, even in something as easy as a hypothetical.

ROTFLMAO...arguing with an 'hysteria driven imaginary' mind and you want me to post an offset argument about this non-factual trumpeted up B.S. that you have created within that 'hysteria'. Your the only one that seems to be doing the screaming and yet you have NO FACTS, none: no medical records, no facts to post, just your hysteria driven make believe world that you have created and now that you've stated it more then 100 times it's become 'YOUR TRUTH'. And you think that makes you believable.

My beliefs haven't changed any you just are ignoring the repetitive statements: Late Term Abortions are necessary and for the women that have no other option this is what they have left to survive!! And for the 'creepy/mind bent few such as yourself'; it is none of your business the WHAT/WHY/HOW that they have to arrive at those decisions.

And as I've told you...beware the make believe world that you've surrounded yourself in...that boogie man might still be lurking under your bed...LMAO

Thanks for the laughs...I was in dire need of a wonderful LMAO moment...you've so filled the bill 4 today. LOOKING GOOD

 

[Pandora]

Late Term Abortions are necessary and for the women that have no other option this is what they have left to survive!!

You say this with such conviction of fact, yet you have no facts or proof and reason and logic are not on your side.. But you scream and cackle that I am wrong because I do not believe that forcing a woman to deliver breech and partially birthing a child then killing it before fully delivering the child is the only way to save a woman’s life.

Logic and reason is on my side. I can name other ways to end a woman’s pregnancy faster and safer for both the mother and child besides partial birth abortion, In fact partially birthing a breech child then killing it is the least safe way for the mother and the only for sure deadly way for the child.

There are C sections; there are normal deliveries that are faster and safer than breech. Both are more healthy for the woman and for sure more healthy for the child.

Lets say if for some odd reason in a hypothetical a woman’s body was backward and it was better for her to deliver breech it still would not help her to hold the babies head inside of her until you could stab the baby in the back of the head and be sure the baby is dead before letting the babies head leave her body. Even if her body were backward it would be better to let the baby out ASAP, killing the baby is not going to save the woman’s life, not even in your alternative universe.

 

[ASPCA4EVER]

Pandora Said: Logic and reason is on my side. I can name other ways to end a woman’s pregnancy faster and safer for both the mother and child besides partial birth abortion, In fact partially birthing a breech child then killing it is the least safe way for the mother and the only for sure deadly way for the child.

There are C sections; there are normal deliveries that are faster and safer than breech. Both are more healthy for the woman and for sure more healthy for the child.

Awww, yes, that old argument about your safer ways of delivery...think about that for just a nanosecond...Hmmm. If all hospitals/doctors were of the mindset to provide those services then why {drum roll please}...why would there ever, EVER be the need for Dr. Tiller and his medical services???

Now, you just keep preaching the: "I've got logic and reason on my side" diatribe but you've missed connecting those huge dots AGAIN!!! But carry on chasing your 'LOGIC/REASONING' around in those cyclonic circles the dizziness will overcome your thinking processes and when you've bounced off of the floor you might knock some sense into your 'LOGIC/REASONING'...LMAO

 

[Pandora]

Awww, yes, that old argument about your safer ways of delivery...think about that for just a nanosecond...Hmmm. If all hospitals/doctors were of the mindset to provide those services then why {drum roll please}...why would there ever, EVER be the need for Dr. Tiller and his medical services???

Now, you just keep preaching the: "I've got logic and reason on my side" diatribe but you've missed connecting those huge dots AGAIN!!! But carry on chasing your 'LOGIC/REASONING' around in those cyclonic circles the dizziness will overcome your thinking processes and when you've bounced off of the floor you might knock some sense into your 'LOGIC/REASONING'...LMAO

Yes that old "factual" argument always seems to get in the way. Now if you are talking about a woman 5 months pregnant, you have a point. The baby will not survive delivery and if a woman really would die if she continued a pregnancy it might be the only possible solution. But there just is no reasoning behind intentionally killing a partially birthed child to save a woman’s life if that child is viable and can live outside the womb.

So to your question of "{drum roll please}...why would there ever, EVER be the need for Dr. Tiller and his medical services???"

The answer is... there would not ever be a reason to partially birth then kill a child who is viable just to save a woman’s life.

If there were any possible reason to partially birth then kill a viable child just to save a woman’s life you would have posted it in red and bold and italic and underlined it all instead of posting rude and vile personal attacks to me.

 

[Bob the Builder]

Awww, yes, that old argument about your safer ways of delivery...think about that for just a nanosecond...Hmmm. If all hospitals/doctors were of the mindset to provide those services then why {drum roll please}...why would there ever, EVER be the need for Dr. Tiller and his medical services???

Well, first of all, the only "need" for those services is in cases of legitimate jeopardy to the life of the mother, or in cases of rape or incest (which are handled with a simple injection when the patient goes to the hospital), so the "need" for an abortion is an extremely rare event, and can be handled in any hospitals surgical center.

 

[Pandora]

Well, first of all, the only "need" for those services is in cases of legitimate jeopardy to the life of the mother, or in cases of rape or incest (which are handled with a simple injection when the patient goes to the hospital), so the "need" for an abortion is an extremely rare event, and can be handled in any hospitals surgical center.

The current argument is partial birth abortion done in the 7th 8th and 9th month by the abortionist tiler (To save a woman's life).

Only 2 or 3 doctors in the US do this type of abortion, tiler was one of them.

We are disagreeing here on how partially birthing in an intentional breech delivery of a viable child to a dying woman then holding the child’s head inside the woman till the child can be killed before the head of the child can be delivered will in some way save this woman's life.

I am apparently crazy because I think breech delivery is dangerous and far more hurtful to a dying woman’s body than a C section or natural delivery. I am also insane because I do not feel that holding the babies head inside the woman till the baby can be stabbed in the back of the head and killed will somehow save said woman’s life.