Abortion doctor shot to death

[Pandora]

Pandora, this isn't really an abortion argument...you want the law changed it should be done the right way. Many in the anti abortion movement have refused to condemn Tiller's murder..like Randall Terry for example:

"George Tiller was a mass murderer and we cannot stop saying that," Terry said. "He was an evil man - his hands were covered with blood."

What tiller was doing actually was not legal. He had just gone through a trial because he had been breaking the rules. The rules say you can only have a late term abortion if the woman’s health depends on it and you must have a second opinion. tiller was giving them for any reason not just the health of the mother and he was not getting a second opinion.

Using your line of thinking about accepting that what he was doing is legal....What Adolph Hitler did was legal too … according to the laws of Germany at the time. Should the Jews have protested with signs or just accepted that it just sucks to be a Jew in those days?

 

[Popeye]

What tiller was doing actually was not legal. He had just gone through a trial because he had been breaking the rules. The rules say you can only have a late term abortion if the woman’s health depends on it and you must have a second opinion. tiller was giving them for any reason not just the health of the mother and he was not getting a second opinion.

Using your line of thinking about accepting that what he was doing is legal....What Adolph Hitler did was legal too … according to the laws of Germany at the time. Should the Jews have protested with signs or just accepted that it just sucks to be a Jew in those days?

Earth to Pandora... just because you're on trial doesn't mean you're guilty. We went through this argument back in March...Tiller was acquitted of those charges brought by a zealous anti choice prosecutor. It's interesting that you claim to know the real truth, when a jury saw it differently.

Why do anti choicers always bring up Hitler and slavery?...It does absolutely nothing to further your argument. Unlike Nazi Germany or slavery, there's choice here..women can have an abortion or they can choose not to. All we want is for you and your kind to stay out of the business of a woman's reproductive rights..is that really asking too much?

 

[ASPCA4EVER]

What tiller was doing actually was not legal. He had just gone through a trial because he had been breaking the rules. . The rules say you can only have a late term abortion if the woman’s health depends on it and you must have a second opinion. tiller was giving them for any reason not just the health of the mother and he was not getting a second opinion.

Using your line of thinking about accepting that what he was doing is legal....What Adolph Hitler did was legal too … according to the laws of Germany at the time. Should the Jews have protested with signs or just accepted that it just sucks to be a Jew in those days?

You are so far off of the 'mark for reality' and what he was charged with as to be sending your posts about this topic from MARS! GOOD GRIEF...no wonder you told Siho that she typed up a 'wonderful post' about horse semen and deviant sex!!! What do you know about the 'LAWS' of Germany during Hitlers Rain of TERROR...once again your hysteria is masking an ability to learn something like the FACTS!!!

Doctor Tiller was a good doctor...you are so biased and prejudiced about the need for his type of surgical skills that you can't get beyond the 'hype' and look at the facts! He's saved many a women from a horrendous death due to pregnancy complications...and those women had horrible, horrible decisions to make...but carry on with your sublime ignorance and prejudiced opinions, you wear it well!

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Its ok, they can justify it by saying it saved lives...of courses that just what terrorist groups always say....

......And, anyone else who insists God is on their-side.

​

"Many in the "pro-life" anti-abortion movement seem to me to only be pro-life in the case of abortion -- unlike those who hold an ethic of life across a range of moral issues, not only abortion but also war and the death penalty, This makes "pro-life" in regard to abortion not only an inconsistent ethic, but an unstable one."

 

[Mr. Shaman]

I hope this backfires big time on the self righteous anti abortion movement.

.....And, their Mentor.....BILL-O THE CLOWN!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Pandora]

Earth to Pandora... just because you're on trial doesn't mean you're guilty. We went through this argument back in March...Tiller was acquitted of those charges brought by a zealous anti choice prosecutor. It's interesting that you claim to know the real truth, when a jury saw it differently.

Why do anti choicers always bring up Hitler and slavery?...It does absolutely nothing to further your argument. Unlike Nazi Germany or slavery, there's choice here..women can have an abortion or they can choose not to. All we want is for you and your kind to stay out of the business of a woman's reproductive rights..is that really asking too much?

A second opinion in your own office by a non doctor is not a real second opinion.

Pro lifers always bring up Hitler and Slavery because there is something similar in those cases as in abortion cases, all the victims were considered "non persons" by the people victimizing them.

 

[Pandora]

You are so far off of the 'mark for reality' and what he was charged with as to be sending your posts about this topic from MARS! GOOD GRIEF...no wonder you told Siho that she typed up a 'wonderful post' about horse semen and deviant sex!!! What do you know about the 'LAWS' of Germany during Hitlers Rain of TERROR...once again your hysteria is masking an ability to learn something like the FACTS!!!

For as much as I do not agree with someone I can still find the view they are coming from interesting. It’s a whole lot better than just flame throwing personal insults. You should try it. Attempting to see something from another person’s point of view and acknowledging their point of view rather than just trying to find personal ways to insult them. It might do you some good to give it a try.

Doctor Tiller was a good doctor...you are so biased and prejudiced about the need for his type of surgical skills that you can't get beyond the 'hype' and look at the facts! He's saved many a women from a horrendous death due to pregnancy complications...and those women had horrible, horrible decisions to make...but carry on with your sublime ignorance and prejudiced opinions, you wear it well!

The need for his type of surgical skill?

Force a baby who can easily live outside the womb to be born breech, then right before the head of this baby comes out, hold the head in and stab the baby in the back of the neck with a sharp object and keep it there till you are sure the baby is dead, then pull the dead child out of the "mother"

That is surgical skill?

Then for kicks and giggles he would give if the mother wanted it and for of course an extra fee… pictures of the dead baby, she could even get pictures of her and her dead baby together, she can get a baptism certificate for her dead baby and feet and hand prints of her dead baby.

But wait! It was not a baby right, because we normally baptize our fetus and get pictures and foot prints.

That abortionist killed babies, his specialty was killing babies who were viable and able to live outside the mothers womb just like any newborn baby does.

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

Force a baby who can easily live outside the womb to be born breech, then right before the head of this baby comes out, hold the head in and stab the baby in the back of the neck with a sharp object and keep it there till you are sure the baby is dead, then pull the dead child out of the "mother"

That is surgical skill?

Then for kicks and giggles he would give if the mother wanted it and for of course an extra fee… pictures of the dead baby, she could even get pictures of her and her dead baby together, she can get a baptism certificate for her dead baby and feet and hand prints of her dead baby.

But wait! It was not a baby right, because we normally baptize our fetus and get pictures and foot prints.

That abortionist killed babies, his specialty was killing babies who were viable and able to live outside the mothers womb just like any newborn baby does.

Do you actually have proof of this where Tiller was concerned?

 

[Pandora]

Do you actually have proof of this where Tiller was concerned?

Proof of what part? I said a lot.

There is an older thread about tiller when he first got off on his charges a few months ago, in that thread I posted FROM TILLER'S website how he offers baptisms for the dead babies, hand and feet prints, pictures with and without the parents. If that is the part you are talking about it’s on a thread from a couple of months ago.

If you are talking about the children being viable, his specialty was partial birth abortions in the 7th 8th and 9th month. People would come from other states to see him since he was one of the only two doctors I think who did it that late in the pregnancy. You can look up the survival rate of babies born during that time and find that these days they live in most cases.

If you are talking about how the abortion is done when the baby is that big you can look up some pretty disturbing information even real partial birth abortions. I have seen them and I DO NOT recommend viewing them.

 

[Popeye]

Proof of what part? I said a lot.

There is an older thread about tiller when he first got off on his charges a few months ago, in that thread I posted FROM TILLER'S website how he offers baptisms for the dead babies, hand and feet prints, pictures with and without the parents. If that is the part you are talking about it’s on a thread from a couple of months ago.

If you are talking about the children being viable, his specialty was partial birth abortions in the 7th 8th and 9th month. People would come from other states to see him since he was one of the only two doctors I think who did it that late in the pregnancy. You can look up the survival rate of babies born during that time and find that these days they live in most cases.

If you are talking about how the abortion is done when the baby is that big you can look up some pretty disturbing information even real partial birth abortions. I have seen them and I DO NOT recommend viewing them.

Viable like this Pandora?

Would you deny a woman a late term abortion who is carrying this?

 

[Pandora]

Viable like this Pandora?

Would you deny a woman a late term abortion who is carrying this?

Oh that is a sad picture. What is wrong with the baby?

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

Proof of what part? I said a lot.

There is an older thread about tiller when he first got off on his charges a few months ago, in that thread I posted FROM TILLER'S website how he offers baptisms for the dead babies, hand and feet prints, pictures with and without the parents. If that is the part you are talking about it’s on a thread from a couple of months ago.

If you are talking about the children being viable, his specialty was partial birth abortions in the 7th 8th and 9th month. People would come from other states to see him since he was one of the only two doctors I think who did it that late in the pregnancy. You can look up the survival rate of babies born during that time and find that these days they live in most cases.

If you are talking about how the abortion is done when the baby is that big you can look up some pretty disturbing information even real partial birth abortions. I have seen them and I DO NOT recommend viewing them.

I was asking specifically about Tiller's behavior, the killing of viable babies, etc. Since I posted that I have done some research on it and I ended up with more questions than answers. There seems to be no agreement as to whether these are perfectly normal health babies/fetuses or whether these are the special case abortions dealing with danger to the mother, deformities, or permanently incapacitated fetuses--microcephalic or hydrocephalic for instance.

This is such a personal issue to a woman that I think the Federal government and public opinion may be too blunt an instrument to deal with it properly. I can understand wanting foot prints etc. if the baby was crippled or deformed such that it could not live except as a vegetable, but again, these are such personal issues that I am glad that I am not the one who has to sit in God's chair and pass judgment.

A woman here in Portland just threw her two kids off the Sellwood Bridge into the Willamette River apparently to get revenge on her husband during an ugly custody battle. A person who does that cannot be in their right mind and I'm glad that I won't be sitting on the jury that decides her punishment. The little boy died but the girl lived, they were pulled out of the water by a man and his wife who live along the river and took their boat out in the dark when they heard the calls for help.

 

[top gun]

OK First Top Gun, Tiller's specialty was partial birth abortion in the last months of pregnancy. What he did was not covered under Row vs. Wade. R v. W gave rights to an abortion until the baby was VIABLE, babies live on their own even as early as the 5th month now sometimes and almost always in the 7th month. His specialty was killing babies after partially birthing them in the 7th 8th and 9th month. Every one of them were VIABLE.

But you are right; this does set back the on going fight for the lives of babies and also for the rights of gun owners.

He was not being arrested and I see that everyone knows exactly what he was doing so I must assume he was operating legally.

I think Popeye's pictures make the point perfectly that the Lunatic doctor killers just can't admit. There are severe birth defect detected late term... and sometimes women have serious medical issues late term.

It's my deepest hope that this crazy assassination sets the anti-choice lunatic zealots so far back in the eyes of reasonable people that they are treated as disrespectfully as possible.

Not bombed... or shot... or even physically hurt... we shouldn't be like them... but treated with all the indignation & disrespect they so rightly deserve. This case had been settled by our court system 4 decades ago.

They've went way to far... and I think even they know it now.

 

[Pandora]

I was asking specifically about Tiller's behavior, the killing of viable babies, etc. Since I posted that I have done some research on it and I ended up with more questions than answers. There seems to be no agreement as to whether these are perfectly normal health babies/fetuses or whether these are the special case abortions dealing with danger to the mother, deformities, or permanently incapacitated fetuses--microcephalic or hydrocephalic for instance.

I am sure some of the babies had health issues. Some of them had downs syndrome but not all. Some were perfectly normal babies. His records were not accessible, but now that he is dead we might be able to see some of the medical records with numbers instead of the women’s names. I am sorry but the idea that a partial birth abortion has to be done because the baby is causing danger to the mother is not possible. If a woman lets say were 7 or 8 months pregnant and her kidneys were failing because the baby was taking too much out of her. A doctor might have to induce labor and have her deliver the baby early so her kidneys could recover, or he might give her a C Section.

But remember the law says if the baby’s head comes out it’s a human being and has to be given medical treatment if born alive and this is the reason why partial birth abortions are done by delivering the baby breech.

Now go back to the woman who has kidneys that are failing but she is 8 months pregnant with a baby she wants.

What doctor would recommend forcing her to do more damage and harm to her own body by having a baby delivered breech and if getting that baby out of her body ASAP is a must to protect the woman’s kidneys why would he hold the head inside the woman’s body long enough to stab the baby in the back of the neck? Why not just deliver it? Partial birth abortion is impossible to do for the reasons of health or life of the mother, though an induced early delivery and an incubator is very possible and reasonable.

This is such a personal issue to a woman that I think the Federal government and public opinion may be too blunt an instrument to deal with it properly. I can understand wanting foot prints etc. if the baby was crippled or deformed such that it could not live except as a vegetable, but again, these are such personal issues that I am glad that I am not the one who has to sit in God's chair and pass judgment.

I do not understand wanting foot prints for a baby you just had a doctor kill. I do not understand wanting pictures of that either, and most especially a baptism certificate. Now if a woman was pregnant and not having an abortion because she wanted her child and the child was born dead then I can see wanting all those things. You see it as a child of yours that died not a fetus or what ever it is people think of their children when making appointments with tiller.

I don’t know what mood you were in when you typed this but its strange I can feel like a caring tone. A feeling I never get from anyone else on either side. I know my posts are blunt and harsh when talking about this topic and most people on the other side are also. Something felt different when reading your post, something I liked

A woman here in Portland just threw her two kids off the Sellwood Bridge into the Willamette River apparently to get revenge on her husband during an ugly custody battle. A person who does that cannot be in their right mind and I'm glad that I won't be sitting on the jury that decides her punishment. The little boy died but the girl lived, they were pulled out of the water by a man and his wife who live along the river and took their boat out in the dark when they heard the calls for help.

The kids are here in Eugene, the daughter will return to the Meadowlark school once she is better. It was such a horrible story. I remember a few years ago a woman 8 or 9 months pregnant with a perfectly normal and healthy baby had a partial birth abortion because she got in a fight with her husband and wanted to hurt him. I do not believe in hurting / killing children period. How is it we can see the horror of what this Portland woman did but not of what other women do legally every day?

 

[Pandora]

He was not being arrested and I see that everyone knows exactly what he was doing so I must assume he was operating legally.

I think Popeye's pictures make the point perfectly that the Lunatic doctor killers just can't admit. There are severe birth defect detected late term... and sometimes women have serious medical issues late term.

It's my deepest hope that this crazy assassination sets the anti-choice lunatic zealots so far back in the eyes of reasonable people that they are treated as disrespectfully as possible.

Not bombed... or shot... or even physically hurt... we shouldn't be like them... but treated with all the indignation & disrespect they so rightly deserve. This case had been settled by our court system 4 decades ago.

They've went way to far... and I think even they know it now.

Not possible to have a partial birth abortion for the health or life of the mother
as for birth defects, that is true some were because of that... I think its terrible to kill a child just because they have some defect but lets say I am in the minority and everyone on planet earth thought it was good and just to kill any child who might be born with some imperfection... why cant we at least kill them as painfree as we do our dogs?