Lunatic Religious Right guns down another doctor

[PLC1]

And you would be correct. Sorry when I saw your link with you saying... and here's some more... I just assumed they we're like the ones already posted. My bad I should have checked.

But I have looked now...

And those too are some pictures that bring out a lot of emotions. But I keep going back to the same conclusion. The fetus is not the only thing in this equation. And we cannot, never will, never have found a way to force women to carry a child to term against her will.

On that we can agree. There is no way to force a woman to carry a child to term.

The best we can do is educate and encourage. Seeing pictures of babies that have been burned and dismembered through abortion should help to educate, don't you think?

As I said before, there is a very fine line between late term abortion and infanticide.

It's using her body... she has the control whether I personally like it or not.

Yes, she does.

Isn't it sad that so many women choose to kill their babies?

That being the case I don't want women to be injured or to die as they did before abortion was legal. And I don't think a woman that has an abortion should be brought up on murder charges.

That only leaves me with do everything to prevent unwanted pregnancy... tons of birth control & education... including talks on abstinance... and try and have as many support service to help women CHOOSE to continue a pregnancy.

While certainly not great my any means that's the most fair scenario I can see in this imperfect world.

Yes, that is probably the best we can do, under the circumstances.

That, and make adoption simpler, cheaper, and easily available.

 

[Pandora]

You may be right on the compromise issue on this one.

After reading your post I don’t know, I think we both compromised a ton, you more than I ever thought … If I read the post right.

I just can't take that option away from women. I have seen just too many circumstances where it needed to be an option... and remember the real compromise is that no one ever has to have an abortion... it's a free will thing.

I don’t understand this part … the real compromise is that no one ever has to have an abortion. There are cases where its an absolute must, like pregnancy in the tubes. Its fairly common and will kill you and the baby both if there is not an abortion, as sad as that is.

And I don't want women forced back to the days of death with them having unqualified doctors, or themselves, often in unsterile and certainly unsafe conditions doing this themselves. I have two daughters... this is a very important issue to them and hence to me.

I don’t either, I think we should change the laws where its pain free for the baby being aborted and no woman ever has to have a breech delivery on purpose. If there is really a case of the life of the mother at stake, then c section quickly or normal delivery quickly and get the baby in an incubator quickly. If the reason for partial birth abortion is something like those pictures Popeye posted, babies with no brain exc. Then still the woman should not have to deliver breech and the baby could be “put down” at least as humane as we do our doggies.

The only other compromise is really what's already been established. After "viability" where there's the great likelihood that the woman's life support is really not completely needed unless there's a life of the mother or serious birth defect issue that's when you've waited too long and should go through with the pregnancy.

Here is where I was shocked (in a happy way) the “You’ve waited too long and should go through with the pregnancy.” I agree but I never thought you would. I also think the woman should not be forced to keep the baby or pay for the baby. If she really does not want it, there should be something set up that the adoptive family pays for the bills or something. And in the event it is life of the mother or horrible deformities that the baby could not survive, no forced breech delivery, and humane killing of the baby.

I don't like abortion. I hope no one has to have one. But I can't put myself between the woman and her own body. I know I'd go balistic if some stranger tried to control my body in this way... so I just don't think that it's my place to dictate this onto women either.

But I do understand your reasoning and I can definitely respect someone for not wanting an abortion.

OK Top Gun, what are we going to fight about now? We agreed pretty much all the way around. I guess we are going to have to stick to fighting over obama, who sucks by the way.

Oh oh I heard this funny saying today,

A recession is when your neighbor has lost his job.
A depression is when you have lost your job.
A recovery is when obama loses his job.

Funny huh

 

[top gun]

On that we can agree. There is no way to force a woman to carry a child to term.

The best we can do is educate and encourage. Seeing pictures of babies that have been burned and dismembered through abortion should help to educate, don't you think?

As I said before, there is a very fine line between late term abortion and infanticide.

Yes, she does.

Isn't it sad that so many women choose to kill their babies?

Yes, that is probably the best we can do, under the circumstances.

That, and make adoption simpler, cheaper, and easily available.

I didn't go line by line here because I think we have some basic points of agreement.

Pregnancy & Abortion...

Great effort at seeing it's not an issue in the first place

Great support to give multiple good options if the situation occurs

Disliked but has to be a choice over a mandate

 

[top gun]

After reading your post I don’t know, I think we both compromised a ton, you more than I ever thought … If I read the post right.

I think we are both good people who just look at the circumstance somewhat differently. We can coexist.

I don’t understand this part … the real compromise is that no one ever has to have an abortion. There are cases where its an absolute must, like pregnancy in the tubes. Its fairly common and will kill you and the baby both if there is not an abortion, as sad as that is.

I was referring to... in elected ones.

I don’t either, I think we should change the laws where its pain free for the baby being aborted and no woman ever has to have a breech delivery on purpose. If there is really a case of the life of the mother at stake, then c section quickly or normal delivery quickly and get the baby in an incubator quickly. If the reason for partial birth abortion is something like those pictures Popeye posted, babies with no brain exc. Then still the woman should not have to deliver breech and the baby could be “put down” at least as humane as we do our doggies.

I always hope for better medical technology as well.

Here is where I was shocked (in a happy way) the “You’ve waited too long and should go through with the pregnancy.” I agree but I never thought you would. I also think the woman should not be forced to keep the baby or pay for the baby. If she really does not want it, there should be something set up that the adoptive family pays for the bills or something. And in the event it is life of the mother or horrible deformities that the baby could not survive, no forced breech delivery, and humane killing of the baby.

The woman has to take some responsibility and move to make her decision in a timely manor. That's not unreasonable.

OK Top Gun, what are we going to fight about now? We agreed pretty much all the way around. I guess we are going to have to stick to fighting over obama, who sucks by the way.

Oh oh I heard this funny saying today,

A recession is when your neighbor has lost his job.
A depression is when you have lost your job.
A recovery is when obama loses his job.

Funny huh

So close... so so close

But if Obama were to leave office we'd be back to stuff like this...

Republican Convention Schedule

Minneapolis, MN

4:00 PM - Opening Prayers and Massages Administered by Rev. Ted Haggard
4:05 PM - Presentation of Confederate Colors
4:10 PM - Pledge of Allegiance to 9/11
4:15 PM - Invocation of John McCain's POW Experience
4:30 PM - George W. Bush Speech on Legacy of Peace and Prosperity, Canceled
4:45 PM - Dick Cheney Instructional Seminar on Waterboarding, Canceled
5:00 PM - Karl Rove Speech on Government Accountability, Canceled
5:15 PM - Tribute to the U.S. Constitution, Canceled
5:30 PM - VP Beauty Contest and Swimsuit Competition, featuring Sarah Palin, Condoleezza Rice, and Rudy Giuliani
5:45 PM - Tribute Film to John McCain's Houses
6:00 PM - Free Jack Abramoff Pep Rally
6:15 PM - Free Tom DeLay Pep Rally
6:30 PM - Free Ted Stevens Pep Rally
6:45 PM - Invocation of John McCain's POW Experience
7:00 PM - VP Briefing Session: The Busy Mom's Guide to Battling Islamic Terrorism
7:15 PM - Larry Craig "Family Values" Lecture and Toe-Tapping Exhibition
7:30 PM - Restroom Break
7:45 PM - Invitation to "Strip Down and Get Relaxed," delivered by Mark Foley via Instant Message
8:00 PM - Lecture on the Effectiveness of Abstinence-Only Education – Sarah Palin
8:15 PM - Accidental Reference to "Obama bin Laden"
8:30 PM - Tribute to a "Nation of Whiners" – McCain Economic Adviser Phil Gramm
8:45 PM - Invocation of John McCain's POW Experience
9:00 PM - Group Sing–Along: "Bomb Bomb Bomb, Bomb Bomb Iran"
9:15 PM - Mitt Romney Endorsement of Jockey Underwear
9:30 PM - Joke Interlude: McCain Tells the One About the Lawyer and the Catfish
9:45 PM - Rallying Call to "Drill Here, Drill Now," Followed by Unveiling of an Oil Rig on Speaker's Platform
10:00 PM - Halliburton Seminar: Profiting from the Next 100 Years of War in Iraq
10:15 PM - Parade of Alaskan Delegates Across Glitter-Encrusted Bridge to Nowhere, led by Sarah Palin
10:30 PM - Ceremonial Shattering of Glass Ceiling with Shotgun Blast Fired by Palin
11:00 PM - John McCain Acceptance Speech and Plea to Delegates to "Get Off My Lawns"
11:30 PM - Closing Invocation of John McCain's POW Experience
12:00 AM - Rapture and Farewell to Bush and Cheney

 

[PLC1]

I didn't go line by line here because I think we have some basic points of agreement.

Pregnancy & Abortion...

Great effort at seeing it's not an issue in the first place

Great support to give multiple good options if the situation occurs

Disliked but has to be a choice over a mandate

Miracle of miracles, I think we have a basic agreement between you, me, and Pandora.

Don't expect that to happen often.

Abortion is terrible. Sometimes it is a necessary evil. Often, all too often, it is practiced as a form of birth control. Outlawing it is not the answer; it must be a choice. The best course is to encourage the choice not to have an abortion whenever possible.

Come to think of it, isn't that what Obama said when he was speaking to the College of Notre Dame?

C'mom, Pandora, admit it. Obama agrees with you, at least on one issure.

 

[Pandora]

Come to think of it, isn't that what Obama said when he was speaking to the College of Notre Dame?

C'mom, Pandora, admit it. Obama agrees with you, at least on one issure.

obama says a whole lot of things but the trick is to watch what he does, not what he says.


he says "no more ear marks" then agrees to 900 of them

he says "all bills will be online for 5 days for us to look over" then he signs them the second he can get congress to pass them when no one has read the damn crap

he says, " I will have no lobbyists" then he hires not just lobbyists but ones who lobbied for departments he puts them in.

So on and so on

he says abortion is bad but he voted to kill babies living outside the womb if they were meant to be abortions.

I don’t listen to what he says anymore, I just watch what he does.