Quran burning

[zakiyeh]

What do you think of the riots going on in Afghanistan and the murder of Americans by Islamists?

I said once that I don't approve the killing. I don't know the exact intentions and conditions of the riots today; If the people are still angry of the Quran burning or If they want the U.S soldiers out. This is not the first time the U.S military acts unpleasantly there. We should remember that it is the Afghans' home. and they have the right to want U.S army out of their country. If U.S military acts provoke a somewhat war or fight, there is no fight or war without victims, weather we like it or not. Now I've read that President Karzai has went on national television and appealed for calm. I wish there would be calm again; But I should admit that I also wish that U.S would take out It's soldiers.

 

[zakiyeh]

I see you've been brainwashed. Most Americans didn't have any clue about Islam or wanting any part of going to war with Muslims....but if you go back into recent history, you can see where we have been very much on their radar.

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Iran can take credit for a lot of the above. It seems most of what has been done to Americans started when your Ayatollah came to power. I'm actually surprised we've never gone after Iran.

Actually U did try to . But your helicopters were smashed in the sand storm in Tabas and your plan was ruined!(24-25 april 1980)
There was also a non-miltary plane bombed by U.S navy's rockets which killed the 290 civilians, 66 of which wee children and it was not a mistake.(3 june 1988)
And If I'm of to mention the indirect actions and those that were supported or approved by U.S I should mention Saddam's attack to Iran which was supported by arming him and also the recent terrors of our scientists and many more.

Of course there is more to these I've mentioned but Its more important to mention that U.S was supporting the Shah's regime who was hated by it's own people and believed in no freedom of speech and opinion and killed and tortured his opponents in the jails in the most cruel way. That is why Iran became enemy of the U.S.
Ayatullah Khomeini was most beloved by Iranians and by other Muslims because he taught them to stand for their rights.
It appears that U.S supports the enemies of Muslims all over the world.. There is no need to attack them directly to become their enemy.

 

[zakiyeh]

How old are you?

I have defended young people from Iran because the ones I know are not crazy Jew haters like the older ones there who are caught up in Islam to the point of thinking its ok to kill others.

The Jew haters in Iran also seem to be the older groups not the younger. I pray you are old!

We don't hate jews. We hate the zionists who kill our brothers for claiming their land. We don't believe it's o.k to kill others but we believe to defend our land and our religion. I was born five years after Iran's revolution, but I've heard and read enough of what the hell it was for most people in the time of Shah. My own dad has been prisoned by SAVAK at 15 and tortured just because of taking part in some students political group and printing Imam khomeini's words. The SAVAK were taught the methods of torturing by Mossad.

 

[Gipper]

First, the US already had a foothold in the ME. They did not need to invade a 12th century backward tribal nation to gain a foothold in the ME. The US has a huge naval base, carrier fleet, and other military installations in the Gulf and they were there BEFORE 9/11. And, it is apparent to all that the US will soon be leaving Afghanland, just as they left Iraq. Did you hear???? We left Iraq!!!

So, the first part of your statement is completely and utterly false and as such, ignorant to believe.

Second, you think the US government wants to put a cruel face on Islam. This again is wrong and completely at odds with reality. The US continually does all it can to cooperate with Muslim nations and Muslims including Bush calling Islam a religion of peace and BO apologizing for every thing the US has NOT done, while bowing to Saudi tyrants. Immigration from ME nations has increased since 9/11. CAIR which monitors every little thing that happens to Muslims in America, has hardly file a lawsuit for actions taken by authorities against Muslims.

In my view, Islamists commit heinous and murderous acts every day somewhere in the world...this is what makes the world see Islam as cruel. Stop the killing and people will not think Islam murderous.

So, I ask you to reconsider what you stated based and don't believe the lies spouted by radical Muslims.

Hey Zaki, I see you responded to other postings, why not this one?

 

[zakiyeh]

Hey Zaki, I see you responded to other postings, why not this one?

I needed more time on that since it's a more difficult issue to discuss! actually I'm fighting my little boy now over the keyboard . Don't worry I will soon!

 

[RoccoR]

zakiyeh, et al,

Heart warming, but yet - it doesn't give me that warm and fuzzy feeling about Iran, or its intentions.

Injection Note: I have no special animosity towards Iranians or (for that matter) any special affinity for Israelis. They are both, in my eyes, equal dangerous nations (but for slightly different reasons) and the people of both are unwilling to look back on the history (their history) and accept it for what it is - and learn from it.​

We don't hate jews. We hate the zionists who kill our brothers for claiming their land. We don't believe it's o.k to kill others but we believe to defend our land and our religion. I was born five years after Iran's revolution, but I've heard and read enough of what the hell it was for most people in the time of Shah. My own dad has been prisoned by SAVAK at 15 and tortured just because of taking part in some students political group and printing Imam khomeini's words. The SAVAK were taught the methods of torturing by Mossad.

(COMMENT)

Israel was born more than half a century ago. For better or for worse, it was a decision made by men that were influenced by war, religious persecution, and genocide on a level not seen since the the days of the Inquisition. Men are imperfect, even more so, the politics of nations are imperfect. And so the wisdom exercised more than a half century ago may also have been imperfect. But it is what it is.

Zionism is a 200 year old hope for the Jewish People in the reestablishment of an ancient homeland. It is, unquestionably, based on both political and religious foundation. But it has, as an objective, peaceful Jewish Sovereignty as its core. It leadership is man made, and thus imperfect, and the peacefulness landing on rocky ground when it almost immediately resulted in the first, of a series, of Israel-Arab Wars.​

​

Now Iran is not an Arab Country. It is a Persian Country. And it is some distance from the area in dispute; one on the Mediterranean Sea - the other on the Persian Gulf. It is not now, nor has it ever been, a plaintiff in the disputed or a holder of a legitimate claim to injury on its people. It's ties to the conflict are highly suspect.​

Today, you speak of SAVAK - today I speak of the Quods Force. The leadership of men has not changed in the last century. The Iranian people have not changed. They are what they are. And if you have been around to see the savagery of the Iranian people in 1979, you would know there is not much difference between the two Iranians (Shah era - Supreme Leader era). The entire region is pot marked with a savage history - this is not to say that other nations (like America) do not have its dark moments in history.

As the nations of the world try to bring peace and reconciliation to the entire region, the question becomes: What contribution is Iran going to make in build a safer world?

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Pandora]

We don't hate jews. We hate the zionists who kill our brothers for claiming their land. We don't believe it's o.k to kill others but we believe to defend our land and our religion. I was born five years after Iran's revolution, but I've heard and read enough of what the hell it was for most people in the time of Shah. My own dad has been prisoned by SAVAK at 15 and tortured just because of taking part in some students political group and printing Imam khomeini's words. The SAVAK were taught the methods of torturing by Mossad.

You only hate the Jews who kill your brothers? I am assuming you mean Palestinians?



You don’t care that your brother targeted civilians, women and children in café’s or on busses to blow up? It’s after events like this that the Israeli army “targets” your brothers.



You say you only hate Zionist Jews but basically that means any Jew who won’t tolerate their families being blown up in cafes or on busses.



Your lovely president wants to drive every Jew into the sea. Does he just hate the Zionists too?



I hate terrorist Palestinian’s but I don’t think they should be wiped off the map or driven into the sea.

 

[Alias]

We don't hate jews. We hate the zionists who kill our brothers for claiming their land. We don't believe it's o.k to kill others but we believe to defend our land and our religion. I was born five years after Iran's revolution, but I've heard and read enough of what the hell it was for most people in the time of Shah. My own dad has been prisoned by SAVAK at 15 and tortured just because of taking part in some students political group and printing Imam khomeini's words. The SAVAK were taught the methods of torturing by Mossad.

What you've heard is Islamist propaganda. It was not YOUR land when Israel was founded. It was where you and the Jews and Christians lived together. There had been only one nation there and that nation was Israel and then it became occupied land for a couple thousand years. It never became YOUR land until Israel became a nation and that was not acceptable for the Islamists who feed you propaganda daily. Islam is the problem, not Israel. You're gonna experience a disaster unless you and your Islamist pals back off.

 

[zakiyeh]

First, the US already had a foothold in the ME. They did not need to invade a 12th century backward tribal nation to gain a foothold in the ME. The US has a huge naval base, carrier fleet, and other military installations in the Gulf and they were there BEFORE 9/11. And, it is apparent to all that the US will soon be leaving Afghanland, just as they left Iraq. Did you hear???? We left Iraq!!!

So, the first part of your statement is completely and utterly false and as such, ignorant to believe.

Second, you think the US government wants to put a cruel face on Islam. This again is wrong and completely at odds with reality. The US continually does all it can to cooperate with Muslim nations and Muslims including Bush calling Islam a religion of peace and BO apologizing for every thing the US has NOT done, while bowing to Saudi tyrants. Immigration from ME nations has increased since 9/11. CAIR which monitors every little thing that happens to Muslims in America, has hardly file a lawsuit for actions taken by authorities against Muslims.

In my view, Islamists commit heinous and murderous acts every day somewhere in the world...this is what makes the world see Islam as cruel. Stop the killing and people will not think Islam murderous.

So, I ask you to reconsider what you stated based and don't believe the lies spouted by radical Muslims.

I'm happy they leaved Iraq. I think tho soldiers and their families and Iraqis are happy to. It hadn't been as the U.S had planned. It is quite always not with the Muslims, especially after Iran's revolution which affected the Muslims world and tought them to stand for themselves. Iraqians were happy to be ridden of Saddam. They were a weak nation but still strong enough in culture not to accept your type of government and culture. Afghanistan too have suffered from Alghaede. The recent riots show however greetfull they might be of u it doesn't mean u can change their beliefs and culture.
Iran is an enemy of U.S.A. and Afghanistan was it's closest and weakest neighbour. Why do u think the government would miss the opportunity?
"Osama Bin Laden was a CIA fabrication." and another interseting fact is that "Both he and the Taliban in Afghanistan that protects him are products of the 10-year-long, U.S.-backed war against the ex-USSR occupation of Afghanistan. After Russian troops invaded Afghanistan in 1979, the U.S. trained bin Laden and thousands of other Arab men.Back then, President Ronald Reagan liked to call bin Laden and his cohorts "freedom fighters."
So u see I think the U.S soldiers have been sent there to clear a mess first made by the ones who sent them and they failed. Muslims if ever have killed have killed in defence. I again declare that I don't approve all the killings but I think u should look at the other side of the coin too and see all the innocent Muslims killed in History.
And wasn't it your previous president that called Iran as one of the axes of evil?
HTML:
http://socialistworker.org/2001/377A/377A_02_BinLaden.shtml

 

[zakiyeh]

Also to Gipper:
If U.S does any act in cooperation with Muslims it's just for it's own benefits. Their hatred and opposition to Islam is evident to me and they have good reason for it (other than the apparent riots and the terrors u hear) which should be discussed more deeply in another opportunity. There have been many Muslim civilians killed in the name of fighting to stablish democracy. What kind of democracy can be stablished by force?
So whatever u say about your government being a smily face to Islam I just cant believe. Of course Islam is not all a smiley face too and that is because it looks for justice and justice can't always be made by silence and smiley faces. There are misunderstandings by ignorant Muslims which sometimes make a mess but simply that is not all the story...

 

[zakiyeh]

zakiyeh, et al,

Heart warming, but yet - it doesn't give me that warm and fuzzy feeling about Iran, or its intentions.

Injection Note: I have no special animosity towards Iranians or (for that matter) any special affinity for Israelis. They are both, in my eyes, equal dangerous nations (but for slightly different reasons) and the people of both are unwilling to look back on the history (their history) and accept it for what it is - and learn from it.​

​

(COMMENT)

Israel was born more than half a century ago. For better or for worse, it was a decision made by men that were influenced by war, religious persecution, and genocide on a level not seen since the the days of the Inquisition. Men are imperfect, even more so, the politics of nations are imperfect. And so the wisdom exercised more than a half century ago may also have been imperfect. But it is what it is.

Zionism is a 200 year old hope for the Jewish People in the reestablishment of an ancient homeland. It is, unquestionably, based on both political and religious foundation. But it has, as an objective, peaceful Jewish Sovereignty as its core. It leadership is man made, and thus imperfect, and the peacefulness landing on rocky ground when it almost immediately resulted in the first, of a series, of Israel-Arab Wars.​

​

Now Iran is not an Arab Country. It is a Persian Country. And it is some distance from the area in dispute; one on the Mediterranean Sea - the other on the Persian Gulf. It is not now, nor has it ever been, a plaintiff in the disputed or a holder of a legitimate claim to injury on its people. It's ties to the conflict are highly suspect.​

Today, you speak of SAVAK - today I speak of the Quods Force. The leadership of men has not changed in the last century. The Iranian people have not changed. They are what they are. And if you have been around to see the savagery of the Iranian people in 1979, you would know there is not much difference between the two Iranians (Shah era - Supreme Leader era). The entire region is pot marked with a savage history - this is not to say that other nations (like America) do not have its dark moments in history.

As the nations of the world try to bring peace and reconciliation to the entire region, the question becomes: What contribution is Iran going to make in build a safer world?

Most Respectfully,
R

Thank you.
I've not come here to ask for warm feelings for Iran. I just wanted to know what people outside my country think about such issues.
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.
.
The world has changed much since the time of the prophets. We prefer to stick to our routine life rather than care for God and good and bad and such meanings. But I think the world is coming to a point which some important meanings which were to be forgotten need to be unveiled again. We will never come to a consensus unless our believes about God and the intention of Man's creation and his mission on earth and the life after death and heaven and hell, etc become the same. For example if I believe there is a life after death which never ends and my deeds decide my place there, I can't stand injustice in favor of peace! If there is to be injustice and evil, I would rather die in favor of justice and good rather than live in a provisional peace.

Peace can't always be gained peacefully; although it evidently is better if it could.
let's be clear. We're not here on earth for fun. In this world there is good and there is evil and they aren't to be conciliating or shaking hands together, and we should open our eyes to see which side were playing a role at. At least this is what I believe.
...
And at last the word savagery you use is some other deep topic which I just can't talk about it now! Some of it is about technology, modernity and it's definitions on development, etc ...

Now Iran should try to stand on it's own feet and show the face of true Islam to the world and the misguided Muslims. That true Islam, if known and obeyed will save the world itself.

 

[cashmcall]

1: If you want to have a fight over the land and who was there first..and go back to the Romans...well its going to be long debate...however guess who was actually there living in modern times...Arabs and Palestinians. If we are going to go back to who lived where 2000 years ago and base things today on that, well American is fucked...and Most of EU is going to need new maps.

2. its 2012...you can stop talking about who was herding goats in 500AD...its not relevant...

3. straw man, carry on.

4. Not a fact, there have been many times where other Religions have lived under Islam..and there have been bad...you know there have been many times when being Jewish or Muslim was horrible under Christians. I know its easy to forget but Christians can be pricks to other religions as well...there are tens of thousands of dead who can tell you about that.

5. I forget, the jews where there...then the Palestinians just magically ended up with there land..then when the jews came back after WWII in large numbers...they took no land of course...and the Palestinians just randomly ended up in Refugee camps with no homes. ( you know just saying fact at the end does not in fact make it one)

6. Bullshit...you really think the Palestinians where there..and just happen to leave all the best lands open for someone else to take while they took the worse? I have a brige to sell you as well..you know you dont even have to study history just think harder and these things your saying would sound stupid.

7. Nations the Palestinians and civilians there did not have power over said we are going to go to war...Israel who has done nothing but hurt these same people says stay...What do you think most people would do...listen to the people who are not with you telling you to stay as a human shield for them...or get the fuck out of the way of the Armys and the war about to go down...I mean if your stupid and don't care about living sure maybe you stay...if you have half a brain you get out. Of course after when you try to go back to your home...to bad...taken...your fault for being smart. wait I mean they could go back, but choose to go live in camps for the fun of it...Just like the Jews in Germany did I am sure.

8..They lost there homes and the Jewish groups will not let them back...so its others fault for not taking them in? I am going to go in your house Force you out, then blame your neighbors for not letting you stay there...I mean its not my fault they would not let you stay.

9. Some of the first "terrorist groups" in the area where Jewish ones before the state of Israel. Also how is that the other Arab states are to blame for not taking them in...yet those same nations when they attacked a Fake nation placed on the boarders...all of the sudden the Palestinians are part of them? Make up your mind. If Israel had been placed anyplace...its neighbors would have gone to war...as again, its a fake made up nation that was just placed there.

10. When Mohammad arose threw the ranks of Heaven after being taken the angel Gabriel ( I belive that was the one that took him) ...where was he taken then since you seem to know and all the Muslims seem to not know. Also is your contention that because Jews have a older book that talks about a place...they can just do what ever they want and kick anyone else out for the rest of time? If not I fail to see your point even if you belived that stupid idea that its not important to Muslims.

Once again you are wrong on every issue..what I stated was fact.. I do not have time for this..there is no talking to you..By the way what are you so angry about?

 

[dogtowner]

By the way what are you so angry about?

it runs in the (political) family.

 

[steveox]

What im so angry about is the courts giving terrorist a free pass like life in prison. If you attempted a dangerous terrorist act you should go right into death row until the day youre executed.

 

[zakiyeh]

You only hate the Jews who kill your brothers?I am assuming you mean Palestinians?
You don’t care that your brother targeted civilians, women and children in café’s or on busses to blow up? It’s after events like this that the Israeli army “targets” your brothers.
You say you only hate Zionist Jews but basically that means any Jew who won’t tolerate their families being blown up in cafes or on busses.

Your lovely president wants to drive every Jew into the sea. Does he just hate the Zionists too?

I hate terrorist Palestinian’s but I don’t think they should be wiped off the map or driven into the sea.

according to Islam, all Muslims are brothers


Where did you get the "after". We need to study history. The fight is over land not in answer to such blows up. Those blows up, weather I approve or not (which I don't) are themselves an answer to attacks and taking away their homes... It seems that you believe it's right to fight back for the family being blown up and kill many mothers and children again? So why not accept it from the other side. There would never be a stop to the fights going on then, would there? Another fact is that the number of Palestinians killed is incomparable to the Jews killed. I've been through this issue in my previous posts. I just not have the time to discuss it over again now.


Yes of course he just hates them! Although what he said was the repeat of what Imam Khomeini had said before.
Don't get it wrong. It's not the Jews he talked about. We have Jews who live in our country in peace. It is Israel's government as an illegal state.The facts about the illegality of Israel which I have mentioned some in other threads are available if you wish to know... There should be no state ruled by these murderer Zionists called Israel...that is all we say!
Now of course If Palestinians want their homes back, those Jews who are actually living in their homes should cooperate or find somewhere else to live ... I don't know how or where. It was a mistake to bring them and settle them in others homes, sending them to camps...