Question 4 for Christians

[Dr.Who]

I'm talking about evil that comes about regardless of what humans do e.g. hurricans, tsunamis, earthquakes etc.

Well you believe that they occur regardless of what humans do but the Bible says that they are a result of the fall of man and the resulting curse which has a purpose; to show us that sin is not without consequences.

 

[Dr.Who]

Science can be proved through observation and experience. Whether or not God really exists cannot be proved just because Jesus said it to people.

Actually it can't. Science rests upon a bed of assumptions just as religion does. Only to the extent that we share the assumptions it makes sense to us.

Neither science nor religion can ever really be proven. But if we agree on some basic fundamental assumptions then we can build on those.

 

[9sublime]

Well you believe that they occur regardless of what humans do but the Bible says that they are a result of the fall of man and the resulting curse which has a purpose; to show us that sin is not without consequences.

Please explain to me how the fall of man is a sufficent reason for tsunamis being allowed to happen on Earth.

 

[Federal Farmer]

Please explain to me how the fall of man is a sufficent reason for tsunamis being allowed to happen on Earth.

Do/did you spank your children when they were disobedient?

 

[pocketfullofshells]

Do/did you spank your children when they were disobedient?

Did you spank all the kids in the Neighborhood when your kid was disobedient?

That god is petty and scum if that is the reason behind killing so many . I would never bow or worship that god.

 

[Federal Farmer]

Did you spank all the kids in the Neighborhood when your kid was disobedient?

That god is petty and scum if that is the reason behind killing so many . I would never bow or worship that god.

I notice you didn't answer the question, why? Sorry buddy, but I'm not playing the Liberal 2-step. You asked a question, I answered it, I asked you a question, you tried to dodge it. And not even very well I might add.

 

[numinus]

Please explain to me how the fall of man is a sufficent reason for tsunamis being allowed to happen on Earth.

The fall of man IS the reason for the human condition.

I honestly do not know what insurmountable moral question you are grappling with right now. You will not find the purpose of natural calamities in religion. Nor is any justification forthcoming. What religion provides is some comfort inspite of them.

Be not afraid. Jesus admonished his disciples at the start and at the very end of his ministry. It did not mitigate the hardships his apostles faced, did it?

And now, more than ever, is the human race faced with fear and uncertainty. Frankly, I can find nothing more necessary today than this exhortation.

 

[9sublime]

I honestly do not know what insurmountable moral question you are grappling with right now. You will not find the purpose of natural calamities in religion. Nor is any justification forthcoming. What religion provides is some comfort inspite of them.

So your God is supposed to be all loving, all powerful and all seeing, yet natural evil such as tsunamis still exist. And you don't find it odd that this is a total contradiciton you cannot explain, and you still swallow down religion??? Surely you can see the huge, unexplained contradiciton completley rinses religion for all its worth.

I'm not going to believe in lies just to comfort me.

Federal farmer, please explain to me why and how it is justifiable to wipe out 250,000 with a tsunami for a spank on the bottom. I'll agree with pocket, sounds like God is a total arse.

 

[Federal Farmer]

Federal farmer, please explain to me why and how it is justifiable to wipe out 250,000 with a tsunami for a spank on the bottom. I'll agree with pocket, sounds like God is a total arse.

Most little children think that their parents are being "mean to them" when they punish them too, but thankfully most of us grow out of it by the time we're in our early 20's, seems that you two just haven't gotten there yet. As far as anyone being an "arse", that would be you two, for continually insisting on trying to play your little "God doesn't exist, and you can't prove it" game.

OK, not that the silly little "fun and games" are out of the way, nobody is seriously saying that God sent the tsunami, or any other natural disaster to punish anyone. The point was that natural disasters are just that, natural, and if people are dumb enough to live in low lying areas that flood on a regular basis, the deserve what they get. Same for the idiots that live in earthquake zones, hurricane country, tornado alley, or any place else that is routinely trashed. Take the idiots in New Orleans for instance. They knew they were living in a city that is 12' below sea level, surrounded by 25' tall levees, and they had the gall to act surprised when Katrina flooded them out? Take the idiots that live in tornado alley, and have been wiped out 5 times in the past 20 years. They KNOW that they live in an area that gets hit by tornadoes, and yet they continue to live there. What about the idiots who live in the mountains and get wiped out by avalanches? They know it snows there (a LOT), they know they're on the side of a mountain, they know that avalanches happen frequently, yet they choose to remain. How about the raving idiots like Harry Truman who had his home on Mt. St. Helen's, and refused to leave even after he was told that it was about to erupt? He knew it was coming, and yet he stayed, and he paid for his idiocy with his life. IDIOTS. Please note the frequent use of the word "idiot" as my favorite description of those people; I use it intentionally, because that's what they are. If they're not smart enough to move away from a place that routinely gets wiped out, then I thank God that they're dead, because they were too stupid to be allowed to continue to populate the Earth and procreate even more idiots. Ever hear of the Darwin Awards? THEY WON!

Like I said before, God isn't some mid-level micro-manager, and anyone who thinks he is really doesn't understand God.

 

[numinus]

So your God is supposed to be all loving, all powerful and all seeing, yet natural evil such as tsunamis still exist. And you don't find it odd that this is a total contradiciton you cannot explain, and you still swallow down religion??? Surely you can see the huge, unexplained contradiciton completley rinses religion for all its worth.

I'm not going to believe in lies just to comfort me.

LOL.

There is no contradiction -- only a fundamental dichotomy in human nature. Can you honestly live in the fullness of life without the possibility of death hanging over your head? Can you really be happy without ever experiencing pain and suffering?

The fact is, the full range of human emotions is necessary, however averse you might feel about a certain aspect of it. Otherwise, how are you expected to learn anything?

Within your existence lies the purpose for it. The only lie, imo, is to assert existence without any rational purpose, whatsoever.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

I notice you didn't answer the question, why? Sorry buddy, but I'm not playing the Liberal 2-step. You asked a question, I answered it, I asked you a question, you tried to dodge it. And not even very well I might add.

I dont have kids

you did not ask me that question, I just responded to it.

But dont worry I know you cant come up with a good response so are just dancing out of it. It a common dance on the Right these days.

and my Response shows the flaw of your argument. That somehow God kills tens of thousands including small kids who had don't nothing wrong, out of some anger at Disobedience?

 

[pocketfullofshells]

Most little children think that their parents are being "mean to them" when they punish them too, but thankfully most of us grow out of it by the time we're in our early 20's, seems that you two just haven't gotten there yet. As far as anyone being an "arse", that would be you two, for continually insisting on trying to play your little "God doesn't exist, and you can't prove it" game.

OK, not that the silly little "fun and games" are out of the way, nobody is seriously saying that God sent the tsunami, or any other natural disaster to punish anyone. The point was that natural disasters are just that, natural, and if people are dumb enough to live in low lying areas that flood on a regular basis, the deserve what they get. Same for the idiots that live in earthquake zones, hurricane country, tornado alley, or any place else that is routinely trashed. Take the idiots in New Orleans for instance. They knew they were living in a city that is 12' below sea level, surrounded by 25' tall levees, and they had the gall to act surprised when Katrina flooded them out? Take the idiots that live in tornado alley, and have been wiped out 5 times in the past 20 years. They KNOW that they live in an area that gets hit by tornadoes, and yet they continue to live there. What about the idiots who live in the mountains and get wiped out by avalanches? They know it snows there (a LOT), they know they're on the side of a mountain, they know that avalanches happen frequently, yet they choose to remain. How about the raving idiots like Harry Truman who had his home on Mt. St. Helen's, and refused to leave even after he was told that it was about to erupt? He knew it was coming, and yet he stayed, and he paid for his idiocy with his life. IDIOTS. Please note the frequent use of the word "idiot" as my favorite description of those people; I use it intentionally, because that's what they are. If they're not smart enough to move away from a place that routinely gets wiped out, then I thank God that they're dead, because they were too stupid to be allowed to continue to populate the Earth and procreate even more idiots. Ever hear of the Darwin Awards? THEY WON!

Like I said before, God isn't some mid-level micro-manager, and anyone who thinks he is really doesn't understand God.

Ok is you live in CAli, or the Gulf Coast, or the midwest ( tornado ally) , they we all should die becuse we are dumb? Tell m where are the safe places to live? Its Amazing how much of a **** your god is.

 

[Dr.Who]

Please explain to me how the fall of man is a sufficent reason for tsunamis being allowed to happen on Earth.

God is Holy, Just, and Merciful.

Justice demands that every wrong be answered for.
Mercy demands that there is an opportunity for atonement and forgiveness.
Holiness demands that God remains apart from sin.

It is this apartness that separates us from the protecting love of God. Before the fall God walked with Adam in the Garden and enjoyed a close personal relationship with him. There were no natural disasters and God would not have permitted them. Afterward God was far away and communion was broken.

But God uses this apartness and the consequences to tell us about our sin. Being separated from God is the definition of Hell and experiencing the separation from God here on Earth and the ensuing natural disasters is a forshadowing of hell.

The universe speaks about his existence and his plan for us, you only need to listen. God created a great wonderful universe for us to enjoy. It became corrupted when mankind became corrupted. Our relationship with God is corrupted and this is the gravest of all problems. We can look at the corruption of the world to understand the corruption of our relationship.

A good and loving God would provide a remedy. Not the remedy where all the natural disasters are avoided but the separation called hell they point to still awaits. That would not be loving. A loving God would provide a remedy that brought man closer to Him and restored the broken relationship. A loving God would provide a remedy for Hell even if it meant allowing tsunamis.

And He did. Jesus is the remedy. Atonement has always been the remedy from the first few chapters of Genesis to the last chapter of Revelation. The plan was in place before the fall. Your salvation from hell does not depend on your being smart or handsome or any work of your own. It depends on one quality that even the most feeble-minded of guilty persons possesses - faith. The one quality that all guilty persons posses in all of the earth is faith and it is the one thing that is needed to be forgiven. Have faith that God loves you and you will be forgiven. The rest are details. Who is this God that loves you? If you have created your own version of God then you have not had faith in Him. But if you have any understanding of the God who forgives then that is enough. You may not know that he is also called Jesus, but then again you might. Using that name is optional even if it is best.

 

[Federal Farmer]

I dont have kids

you did not ask me that question, I just responded to it.

But dont worry I know you cant come up with a good response so are just dancing out of it. It a common dance on the Right these days.

and my Response shows the flaw of your argument. That somehow God kills tens of thousands including small kids who had don't nothing wrong, out of some anger at Disobedience?

You answered it, so you took the question as your own. If it didn't apply to you, then why did you answer it?

Also, quit flinging the flaming strawmen, and reeking Red Herrings PFOS. You and the other secularists are the only ones claiming that God is responsible for killing anyone, and frankly it's seriously indicative of a severe inferiority complex that is in serious need of professional psychiatric assistance. I have yet to see anyone else on this board, in any of these discussions seriously forwarding the proposition that God is responsible for any of the things that you attribute to him (well, OK, I did throw one out there as an attempt at humor, but you completely missed it).

The only arguments that I've made are that all of these occurrences are the result of natural forces, and that God isn't some mid-level, micro-managing functionary, and nothing you've said in any way contradicts either of those.

 

[Federal Farmer]

Ok is you live in CAli, or the Gulf Coast, or the midwest ( tornado ally) , they we all should die becuse we are dumb? Tell m where are the safe places to live? Its Amazing how much of a **** your god is.

Again with the trying to blame the God that you don't believe in for natural occurrences. Really, you should study Engineering so that you can learn how to build a bridge and get over yourself.

And as to your question concerning where people live, if you choose to live there, that's on you, but don't blame God for your stupidity. I grew up on the Gulf Coast, and after surviving Camille, I left there as fast as I could It only took one time for me to figure out that living in a place that is a magnet for the "aww sh*ts" was retarded stupid to the 10th power. Some people however are much slower than I am, and if they get killed, well, let's just say that I hope it's BEFORE they could procreate and pass the "stupid gene" on to the next generation.