Christians loving their genocidal God is like Jews adoring Hitler, and just as foolish.

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Christians loving their genocidal God is like Jews adoring Hitler, and just as foolish.

As above, so below.

Above.
God condemned Christians to hell and extinction.

Below.
Hitler condemned the Jews to extinction.

Result.
The same expected results if both plans are successful. Except that God gets the bonus of the smell of burning human flesh. Um, Um, Good.

The Jews know not to call evil good. They would not bend the knee to Hitler.

Christians and all the other Abrahamic faiths, bend the knee to God. Christians and Muslims thus call evil good.

The Christian and Muslim version of Eden as a fall is reversed from the Jewish version and is wrong.

Christians and Muslims should have usurped the moral of the story when they usurped and altered the Jewish myths. Reading this myth literally has been quite harmful. Remember the Dark Ages and the Inquisitions.

If, as above so below is to be the dream of religion, and it is as we are to match laws with heaven, then the near perfect analogy above of as above so below must be brought into synch.
If you are a Christian or Muslim, please justify why you bond the knee to a God that does not deserve that title. A God who would blame his own creation for his errors in creating.
The claim that your God is good does not hold water in either the esoteric world, or in this one. Not in the literal world or the fantasy world of the Gods.

I know that you likely inherited your God and did not choose him for yourself. You can do better. You can find a God who owns up to his errors and repents to his victims, as he can, if he was man enough, instead of blaming others for his errors.

I think it time for believers to reject the genocidal God and stop wishing for the tyranny above in heaven, --- while trying to live in a democracy here below. Bring democracy to heaven by telling your tyrannical God where to go.

The jury is in my friend and fellow believers. Religions are out. The tipping point is est., 2050.

To believe is good but to believe in a condemning God is foolish.

God may have begun as foolish, --- Hebrews 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; --- but God is almost ready to obey his better. Mankind.

Is it time to alter Christianity or will Christian let it die?

Will Christianity revive itself by returning to a more Jewish view? After all, the entire Bible was written by Jews.

If Jews are bright enough to reject the one who would annihilate them, why are Christians not following that good example and lovingly bending the knee to a proven tyrant, while at the same time promoting a less tyrannical life here on earth?

Seems a tad hypocritical to me my friends. Trust me on this.

Regards
DL

 

[Jason76]

A lot of times we don't know the whole story. For instance, Noah's flood and the Cannanite genocide were targeting monster beings, not people. Supposedly, they were half demon. Even in Sodom and Gommorah, the target wasn't homosexuality, but hateful people who also happened to rape.

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

A lot of times we don't know the whole story. For instance, Noah's flood and the Cannanite genocide were targeting monster beings, not people. Supposedly, they were half demon. Even in Sodom and Gommorah, the target wasn't homosexuality, but hateful people who also happened to rape.

According to Rabbis, the Sodom story is a story of hospitality and not sexuality at all.

Noah's flood was targeting the Nephelim who were produce by the son's of God using the earth as a brothel.

God would have been a more moral God instead of the prick he shows himself to be if he just would have kept his sons in heaven with him.

That or do a quick reboot and not use genocide against those he says he loves unconditionally.

Regards
DL

 

[Jason76]

according to Rabbis, the Sodom story is a story of hospitality and not sexuality at all.

Noah's flood was targeting the Nephelim who were produce by the son's of God using the earth as a brothel.

God would have been a more moral God instead of the prick he shows himself to be if he just would have kept his sons in heaven with him.

That or do a quick reboot and not use genocide against those he says he loves unconditionally.

Regards
DL

It's all about free will. Angels and humans have free will to do what they want, much as a worker can agree to a contract and then break it.

Yes, the homosexuality thing with Sodom and Gommorah is mostly religious right propoganda.

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

It's all about free will. Angels and humans have free will to do what they want, much as a worker can agree to a contract and then break it.

Yes, the homosexuality thing with Sodom and Gommorah is mostly religious right propoganda.

Agreed.

I do not see free will as you do if you believe it comes from a creator God.

We cannot help but sin.
To to have a creator God punish us for only being able to follow his God given nature, --- that defaults to sin, --- would make that God a vile demiurge indeed. At least to this Gnostic Christians.

Regards
DL

 

[cashmcall]

Some of your claims about what the Jew's believe or didn't believe are way off base but I won't go into that right now..You know Why people aren’t listening to Christians..

Because Jesus didn’t condemn bad people. He condemned “stiff” people. We condemn the bad ones and affirm the stiff ones. Whether it was a prostitute or a tax collector or an outcast…Jesus reached out to them. It was a motley crew of riff-raff that followed him around, and it never embarrassed him or made him feel uncomfortable. It still doesn’t. But he’s still angry at the “stiff” ones.

One of the most radical statements Jesus ever made is found in Matthew 9. We’ve sanitized it and made it fit our molds, and thus allowed it to lose its power. I’m referring to these words of his: “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice.’ For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners” (verses 12-13).

The difference between Jesus and us is that he didn’t condemn the bad people—he loved them and understood them even though he would have been perfectly justified in condemning them. We, on the other hand, can’t condemn the bad people because we are them. Therefore, our only alternative is to tell them, as fellow beggars, where we found our hope.

I believe that one of the reasons the world isn’t attracted to our churches is because they think what we have is only for good people. Therefore, they think, it isn’t for them. We have done a poor job informing the world that Christians aren’t perfect, just forgiven and accepted and slowly getting better. Jesus said, “But I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself” (John 12:32). If that isn’t happening, maybe it’s because we have been lifting ourselves up instead of him. Maybe it’s because we are giving the false impression that we’re good people and that Jesus only loves good people. Maybe it’s because we’re flying under false colors—ours rather than his.

I love this story I read of the Anglican priest who saw an elderly woman who, because of the thought of her sin, stopped herself from drinking from the communion cup. The priest finally stuck it under the woman’s nose and said, “Take it, woman! It’s for sinners! It’s for you.”

It’s a relief. I’m better than I was before I knew Christ, but my goodness still isn’t enough to attract anyone to anything. But I can point to him. People like him a lot better than they like me anyway.

After all, as Christians, we don’t have anything to prove. All we’re called to do is to point to Christ. Then we run to him for mercy, forgiveness, love and acceptance. And that is quite attractive to us and to them.

If you doubt me…Read Luke 7:36-50 & Romans 5:6-11

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Some of your claims about what the Jew's believe or didn't believe are way off base but I won't go into that right now..You know Why people aren’t listening to Christians..

Because Jesus didn’t condemn bad people. He condemned “stiff” people. We condemn the bad ones and affirm the stiff ones. Whether it was a prostitute or a tax collector or an outcast…Jesus reached out to them. It was a motley crew of riff-raff that followed him around, and it never embarrassed him or made him feel uncomfortable. It still doesn’t. But he’s still angry at the “stiff” ones.

One of the most radical statements Jesus ever made is found in Matthew 9. We’ve sanitized it and made it fit our molds, and thus allowed it to lose its power. I’m referring to these words of his: “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice.’ For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners” (verses 12-13).

The difference between Jesus and us is that he didn’t condemn the bad people—he loved them and understood them even though he would have been perfectly justified in condemning them. We, on the other hand, can’t condemn the bad people because we are them. Therefore, our only alternative is to tell them, as fellow beggars, where we found our hope.

I believe that one of the reasons the world isn’t attracted to our churches is because they think what we have is only for good people. Therefore, they think, it isn’t for them. We have done a poor job informing the world that Christians aren’t perfect, just forgiven and accepted and slowly getting better. Jesus said, “But I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself” (John 12:32). If that isn’t happening, maybe it’s because we have been lifting ourselves up instead of him. Maybe it’s because we are giving the false impression that we’re good people and that Jesus only loves good people. Maybe it’s because we’re flying under false colors—ours rather than his.

I love this story I read of the Anglican priest who saw an elderly woman who, because of the thought of her sin, stopped herself from drinking from the communion cup. The priest finally stuck it under the woman’s nose and said, “Take it, woman! It’s for sinners! It’s for you.”

It’s a relief. I’m better than I was before I knew Christ, but my goodness still isn’t enough to attract anyone to anything. But I can point to him. People like him a lot better than they like me anyway.

After all, as Christians, we don’t have anything to prove. All we’re called to do is to point to Christ. Then we run to him for mercy, forgiveness, love and acceptance. And that is quite attractive to us and to them.

If you doubt me…Read Luke 7:36-50 & Romans 5:6-11

Sure. Run to Christ with his genocidal son murdering father.

You go ahead and sell yp0our soul to Satan. I have a God that thinks your misogynous and homophobic religion is satanic.

Any time you want to discuss your poor morals and reliance on human sacrifice then I am here for you.

You are correct in that God has no need for sacrifice yet you think it moral for him to sacrifice his own son.

Real consistent thinking friend.

Regards
DL

 

[Jason76]

Agreed.

I do not see free will as you do if you believe it comes from a creator God.

We cannot help but sin.
To to have a creator God punish us for only being able to follow his God given nature, --- that defaults to sin, --- would make that God a vile demiurge indeed. At least to this Gnostic Christians.

Regards
DL

We all sin, but a person controlled by sin can run into a lot of problems. There are so many people in prison because of enslavement to sin. If they had been able to resist sin, then probably they wouldn't be behind bars. Of course, though, a lot if sin is pleasurable. Nonetheless, it's impossible for many to play with fire without getting burned. Even the most slick and cunning, often run into problems eventually.

 

[cashmcall]

I used to love Christian apologetics,

I relished the debate. I enjoyed the back and fourth of logic and reason. I cherished the depth of the answers that honest study provides. In some ways, I still do. However, as I’ve come to grow in my faith as a Christian, I’ve also come to realize that apologetics are often all about ego.

My most recent faith struggle is not one of intellect or doubt. I don’t really do that anymore. Sooner or later you just figure out there are some guys who don’t believe in God and they can prove He doesn’t exist, and there are some other guys who do believe in God and they can prove He does exist, and the argument stopped being about God a long time ago and now it’s about who is smarter, and honestly I don’t care.

Don’t misunderstand me. I firmly believe that Christianity is an internally consistent worldview that rationally explains what we encounter in our world. I also maintain that there are powerful, logical reasons for believing in the Christian God..

Unfortunately, apologetics as a practice is rarely about those things. It is about the debate, and here are three reasons why I am giving it up.

Evangelism is about communicating the good news. In fact, the verb euangelizo in the Greek literally means “to bear the good news.” It derives from angelos, or “messenger.” The entire idea is that Christ has come to redeem us, to draw us together, and to restore us to God and to each other. Evangelism, then, is a unifying act. It invites others into the ongoing work of God.

The act of debate does not do this. Rather than inviting people into the unifying grace of our risen Lord, it establishes two opposed camps who then engage in a rhetorical battle to prove who is right. It is about deconstruction rather than construction. It is about attacking others rather than engaging them.

I have yet to meet anyone that has come to know Christ as the result of an intense debate. I know many who have had to wrestle with honest questions on their journey to respond to God’s grace, but these were seldom done within the debate arena. Instead, these were explored within the context of safe, vulnerable relationships.

And that’s precisely the problem. Rather than building safe, vulnerable relationships, the arena for common apologetics establishes hostile divisions. It isn’t about evangelism; it is about winning an argument.

Pride may not be one of your struggles. If not, then good. You’re a better person than I am.

For me, pride is a recurring battle. I often feel compelled to correct misinformation or to defend God against popular misrepresentations. I easily get defensive and am quick to leap into the fray to argue on behalf of the intellectual credulity of the faith. I usually feel the need to have the last word.

These are not positive qualities. The problem is, under the label of being an apologist, I can justify every last one of them. I can be sarcastic and condescending, and honestly believe that I am doing it “for Jesus.” I can present myself as the final authority on matters of intellect and the word, and believe that this is a beneficial representation. I can abandon love for the sake of truth, and convince myself that this is actually ok.

The thing is… I’m not alone. As a blogger out here in wonderland, I am often privy to conversations and debates taking place in the online world. You see it in blog posts, in comments, and on social media. The apologists in nearly every area, Christian or otherwise, allow the debate to reinforce their pride.

Worse, they allow that pride to infect their capacity to care.

This is ultimately where it hurts.

If you observe any ongoing debate, whether it be in person or online, it inevitably degrades into hostility if it goes on long enough. The combination of division and pride typically leads to condescension, sarcasm, or unabashed verbal attacks.

This leaves a lingering impact on those involved. On those outside the faith, this reinforces the perspective that Christians are hateful and rude. To the Christian apologist, it often leaves frustration and anger. The end result is of benefit to nobody: the non-Christian is driven further from the faith and, ironically, so is the apologist.

Why? Because the heart of the faith is love. When the means of our evangelism reinforces our pride and results in division and hostility, then we are moving away from that love. If we want to honestly communicate the truth of Jesus, we do it through the loving relationships that we establish even with those who challenge us.

This does not mean that we avoid study or that we cease to engage the misaligned views of our culture. However, I am convinced that the debate forum of today’s social apologetics is not the proper medium. Donald Miller is more right than he knows. The argument stopped being about God a long time ago and now it’s about who is smarter.

And I honestly don’t care anymore… I will state my case with honesty, but I will not argue…

Thanks for reading.. Doug

 

[paf_2]

Well, as a general rule I don't believe everything I have read in the bible. The portrayal of God in it is something I really have a hard time swallowing especially in the old testament. This God condemns people, kills people floods the earth then stands around saying it was for the good of man kind. I don't buy it, no the God I know of is a loving and forgiving God who unlike man can forgive a person their faults if they as for forgiveness, and not pass judgment. This is the God I was taught about yet that God in the old Testament is nothing like this and there are times when I wonder is this really thee portrayal of God we want to bring forth. Maybe it has to do with the readings of the bible wanting to put fear into people , but for me these stories just kind of have me questioning the fact that if God is a loving and forgiving God, why is he doing these things. So, I tend to have a hard time with the old testament of the bible in general, mainly for the portrayal of God. I don't think that all that is in the bible is based on actual truth.

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

We all sin, but a person controlled by sin can run into a lot of problems. There are so many people in prison because of enslavement to sin. If they had been able to resist sin, then probably they wouldn't be behind bars. Of course, though, a lot if sin is pleasurable. Nonetheless, it's impossible for many to play with fire without getting burned. Even the most slick and cunning, often run into problems eventually.

Yes and strange, that a country like the U.S. which touts itself as a Christian nation has the greatest amount of sinners in jail as compared to atheist nations.

Strange that atheists can handle sin better than Christians.

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

I used to love Christian apologetics,

Yes. Apologetics can be fun and rewarding for those who seek God.

It is garbage when Christians and Muslims are in play because they are both idol worshiping religions and no longer seek our true God.

Those apologists have discarded their logic and reason for faith in an immoral, homophobic and misogynous Gods.

Shame on Christians and Muslims.

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Well, as a general rule I don't believe everything I have read in the bible. The portrayal of God in it is something I really have a hard time swallowing especially in the old testament. This God condemns people, kills people floods the earth then stands around saying it was for the good of man kind. I don't buy it, no the God I know of is a loving and forgiving God who unlike man can forgive a person their faults if they as for forgiveness, and not pass judgment. This is the God I was taught about yet that God in the old Testament is nothing like this and there are times when I wonder is this really thee portrayal of God we want to bring forth. Maybe it has to do with the readings of the bible wanting to put fear into people , but for me these stories just kind of have me questioning the fact that if God is a loving and forgiving God, why is he doing these things. So, I tend to have a hard time with the old testament of the bible in general, mainly for the portrayal of God. I don't think that all that is in the bible is based on actual truth.

I agree and see little truth is scriptures when not read as myths.

Regards
DL

 

[Jason76]

Those apologists have discarded their logic and reason for faith in an immoral, homophobic and misogynous Gods.

Most of this, at least in regard to Christians, comes from mixing church and state. In reality, Christians should be so concerned with their own piety, that they have no time to point fingers at other people's sin. However, once church and state is mixed, then Christians feel a religious duty to impose rules on everyone. Of course, this situation leads to all kinds of hypocrisy.

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Most of this, at least in regard to Christians, comes from mixing church and state. In reality, Christians should be so concerned with their own piety, that they have no time to point fingers at other people's sin. However, once church and state is mixed, then Christians feel a religious duty to impose rules on everyone. Of course, this situation leads to all kinds of hypocrisy.

Good insight on church and state.

You are right in that Christianity fosters hypocrisy and I would add inhumanity to man.

Here is some history and then a bit of what I think useful for those who seek a God. God as in their higher minds.

The thinking shown below is the Gnostic Christian’s goal as taught by Jesus but know that any belief can be internalized to activate your higher mind.

This method and mind set is how you become I am and brethren to Jesus, in the esoteric sense.

When you can name your God, I am, and mean yourself, you will begin to know the only God you will ever find. Becoming a God is to become more fully human and a brethren to Jesus.

Regards
DL