Homophobia: The truth is out there.

Anytime I hear someone refer to the Bible as the "literal" word of GOD, I know it is a circular argument and there is nothing to gain from engaging in a debate with fanatics.


Have fun!

Believing in a literal word of god does not necessitate a circular argument. though clearly many people use the bible to create circular arguments. Of course making circular arguments is not the sole domain of bible believers.
 
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Not fanatics.It is clearly dealing with God's Laws.God says homosex is abomination,so it is.We can't outsmart God and laws He demands us to obey.

If the bible is true and it says that then it would be true. But the only people you could ever convince would be people who already believe the bible is true and agree that it says that. Is that your audience?

By the way, is eating shrimp an abomination?
 
Not fanatics.It is clearly dealing with God's Laws.God says homosex is abomination,so it is.We can't outsmart God and laws He demands us to obey.

Which law does God demand we obey? The law of Moses? The Law of Abraham? The Law of Adam? The Law of Christ?

Which law does God demand a Jew obey? Which law does God demand an unbeliever to obey? Which Law does God demand a believer obey?
 
There no verses in the Bible that you can't be black or white or of other color.God condemns racism and human judging against people on age,class,sickness,or health.But God strictly condemns GLBT,

GLBT =
Gay
Lesbian
Bisexual
Transgender

Can you provide a verse condemning each of those? I don't think so.

If you did provide such a verse then Openmind would still be correct that we are to love each of those.
 
God never makes sins as homosexuality,adultery,abortions,etc.Sin is a human desire and temptation that comes from cursed fallen archangel Lucifer who is Satan.Homosexuals as well as other rebels are created by Satan.God never sins and never does mistakes.

It is true that sin is the product of man's mind.

If homosexuals were created by Satan then what they do would NOT be the product of their own minds. As a person with a nature that was CREATED they would not be accountable for being who they are.

On the other hand if all people choose their own actions then all people would be accountable for what they choose.

Those who claim to know that anyone's sexual lifestyle is completely determined or completely chosen is buying propaganda. The bible does not say that gay people have made a choice nor does it say that they were created that way. Science does not say that being gay is a choice or that it is determined either. The bible does not say that being gay is a choice or determined either. It does say that people who were something like gay but may or may not have been what we call gay were later not that something - if anything these people, whoever they were, were changed through a miracle. Are you praying for miracles or are you hitting people over the head with law? If they were created by Satan then why blame them for what Satan did?
 
If the bible is true and it says that then it would be true. But the only people you could ever convince would be people who already believe the bible is true and agree that it says that. Is that your audience?

By the way, is eating shrimp an abomination?
Jesus The Messiah competed the ceremonial Kosher laws in New Testament dealing with shell fish,pork,other meats that were unclean during the times of Old Testaments.Now you can ejoy crabs,shrimps,oysters,and pork products as much as you wish,and all these good for you.However,Lord Jesus retained and enforced the moral laws dealing with all kinds of crime,idolatry,and sexual immorality that is also includes GLBT as we see in Old Testament Leviticus 18:22 and its reendorsement in New Testament in Romans 1:26-32,Second Peter 2,Jude 1:1-6.
 
It is true that sin is the product of man's mind.

If homosexuals were created by Satan then what they do would NOT be the product of their own minds. As a person with a nature that was CREATED they would not be accountable for being who they are.

On the other hand if all people choose their own actions then all people would be accountable for what they choose.

Those who claim to know that anyone's sexual lifestyle is completely determined or completely chosen is buying propaganda. The bible does not say that gay people have made a choice nor does it say that they were created that way. Science does not say that being gay is a choice or that it is determined either. The bible does not say that being gay is a choice or determined either. It does say that people who were something like gay but may or may not have been what we call gay were later not that something - if anything these people, whoever they were, were changed through a miracle. Are you praying for miracles or are you hitting people over the head with law? If they were created by Satan then why blame them for what Satan did?
The Bible describes gays as people who desire to live in this life of sin as well as other people who get indulged in many other sins.Romans 1:1-32.
 
Jesus The Messiah competed the ceremonial Kosher laws in New Testament dealing with shell fish,pork,other meats that were unclean during the times of Old Testaments.Now you can ejoy crabs,shrimps,oysters,and pork products as much as you wish,and all these good for you.However,Lord Jesus retained and enforced the moral laws dealing with all kinds of crime,idolatry,and sexual immorality that is also includes GLBT as we see in Old Testament Leviticus 18:22 and its reendorsement in New Testament in Romans 1:26-32,Second Peter 2,Jude 1:1-6.

Who was required to abstain from shellfish, the gentiles or the Jew or those in Christ?

Paul speaks of the Law being fulfilled, when he says we are dead to the Law, when he says that we are not under the law but under grace, when he says "Now before faith came, we were confined under the law, kept under restraint until faith should be revealed. So that the law was our custodian until Christ came, that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a custodian" and "discharged from the law, dead to that which held us captive, so that we serve not under the old written code but in the new life of the Spirit, and "For freedom Christ has set us free; stand fast therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery"

Did he mean that we were really only dead to some of the law, that only some of the law was our custodian? It seems an odd way to discuss the Law if he really only meant some of the law.

When those who tried to re-enslave people came his response was: For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. He of course means that if you accept some of the law then you deny that you are dead to the law and you must therefore obey all of it.

The distinction between ceremonial law and judicial law is man-made, the bible makes no such statement or distinction between parts of the law. James says: “For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.” The Law is seen as unified, there is only one Law of Moses and it is the entirety of the first five books of the bible.

For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

Are people save by law or by grace? If by grace then grace is sufficient and is all that is needed. The law is useful to lead one to grace and to teach but obeying the law is not only worthless for a believer but it is a step backward into slavery.

The Adamic law teaches that all who sin die. The Abrahamic law teaches that those who have faith are justified. The Mosaic law teaches that Jews alone who can obey all the written code are justified through works - though that is impossible. The Law of Christ teaches that both Jews and Gentiles can receive the justification of Abraham through faith and fulfill the Mosaic Law.

For a believing Jew he no longer must follow a legal code but it is superceded by the Law of Christ. For a Gentile he is not bound by the Mosaic Law but is bound by Adamic Law - to do what is right as his conscience dictates and to be judged against his own conscience. For the Gentile Christian he never had the Mosaic law but does have the Law of Christ which teaches that he should love what is right not to win himself salvation but to honor God.

When you speak to unbelieving Gentiles and tell them that they are damned because they have not followed the Mosaic Law you are mistaken because they were never given that law to begin with. If you tell them they must do what is right then you must appeal to their conscience. When you speak to any who have sinned either by violating their conscience or by violating the law of Moses you must help them to see salvation through faith.

Homosexuality is really such a small and unimportant issue barely mentioned in all of the bible, sometimes in the Mosaic law which does not apply Gentiles, and sometimes in the Law of Christ which is a message to those who have already believed - but never are there any written instructions on the subject to those who are neither Jew nor Christian. Why would you drive people from Christ by attempting to circumcise those who would be better off receiving faith?


I didn't take as much time as I could and that is not my best post. I also did not put quotes in the KJV as I am sure you would like - but you are free to look up any quote in the KJV.
 
The Bible describes gays as people who desire to live in this life of sin as well as other people who get indulged in many other sins.Romans 1:1-32.


Why would you expect a letter to Roman Christians to be received by American gentiles?

There are a million ways a person's conscience can convict him. The passage you quoted says that these people knew about God and understood what was expected. Doesn't it make sense to help people admit their own sin by starting a discussion of what they already agree to be sin? If I were trying to help a man who felt guilty about the murders he had committed and he was also gay but felt it was natural and right would he not be more likely to seek a savior for his murders than for his homosexuality?

If an idolater worshiped in the temple and while there as part of his worship of idols engaged in an orgy with both men and woman, in a passage primarily about idolatry would I be condemning his idolatry or his homosexual behavior?

If you believe gay men are created by satan but the bible says that these men above no longer engaged in the orgies wouldn't it make more sense that these were straight men who were engaging in idolatry but chose to stop than that they were gay men who had no choice but somehow made the choice to stop?

If a gay man were also a pedophile which would be more reprehensible? And if I called him a homosexual offender would I not be making a distinction between him and another gay man who was not a pedophile?

For in the roman world the idea that a man would have a romantic attraction to another man was unheard of. Older men took advantage of young boys and engaged in orgies at the temple but the homosexuality of that time was virtually not comparable to what people in 20th century America do.
 
Why would you expect a letter to Roman Christians to be received by American gentiles?

There are a million ways a person's conscience can convict him. The passage you quoted says that these people knew about God and understood what was expected. Doesn't it make sense to help people admit their own sin by starting a discussion of what they already agree to be sin? If I were trying to help a man who felt guilty about the murders he had committed and he was also gay but felt it was natural and right would he not be more likely to seek a savior for his murders than for his homosexuality?

If an idolater worshiped in the temple and while there as part of his worship of idols engaged in an orgy with both men and woman, in a passage primarily about idolatry would I be condemning his idolatry or his homosexual behavior?

If you believe gay men are created by satan but the bible says that these men above no longer engaged in the orgies wouldn't it make more sense that these were straight men who were engaging in idolatry but chose to stop than that they were gay men who had no choice but somehow made the choice to stop?

If a gay man were also a pedophile which would be more reprehensible? And if I called him a homosexual offender would I not be making a distinction between him and another gay man who was not a pedophile?

For in the roman world the idea that a man would have a romantic attraction to another man was unheard of. Older men took advantage of young boys and engaged in orgies at the temple but the homosexuality of that time was virtually not comparable to what people in 20th century America do.
Before saying that homosexual equality is civil rights issue,please come and visit this http://www.jesus-is-savior.com You need to learn what God truly say about gays and who gays are in His Jurisdiction.And learn more on other wicked on this site I recomend.
 
Before saying that homosexual equality is civil rights issue,please come and visit this http://www.jesus-is-savior.com You need to learn what God truly say about gays and who gays are in His Jurisdiction.And learn more on other wicked on this site I recomend.

Hmmm? Im not sure you know what I need. i visited that site - it was filled with many links and not very well organized. I saw a couple of things I would disagree with right off the bat too. I visited the link called "the bible and homosexuality" I found it to be not very well thought out and starting with a preconceived notion which it then attempted to support with the bible.

Homosexuality should not be a civil rights issue but since a civil right is one that is granted by the civil authorities and since these rights are being debated as an issue they are a civil rights issue whether one agrees or not.

I se you have not answered any questions I asked of you.
 
Before saying that homosexual equality is civil rights issue,please come and visit this http://www.jesus-is-savior.com You need to learn what God truly say about gays and who gays are in His Jurisdiction.And learn more on other wicked on this site I recomend.


Well, I tried to humor you and I went to that site!

Talk about HELL! this is the most ridiculous, hateful, fearmongering site I've ever seen! It is obviously trying to appeal to a mix of extreme Liberterians, and extreme religious fanatics. . . with a twist of "conspiracy theories" thrown in for good measure!

Now, no wonder you believe in hell! If you read that site too often. . .you may actually believe that you are ALREADY in hell!

Do you have problems sleeping at night? I sure would!
 
Jesus The Messiah competed the ceremonial Kosher laws in New Testament dealing with shell fish,pork,other meats that were unclean during the times of Old Testaments.Now you can ejoy crabs,shrimps,oysters,and pork products as much as you wish,and all these good for you.However,Lord Jesus retained and enforced the moral laws dealing with all kinds of crime,idolatry,and sexual immorality that is also includes GLBT as we see in Old Testament Leviticus 18:22 and its reendorsement in New Testament in Romans 1:26-32,Second Peter 2,Jude 1:1-6.

I am sorry to tell you so bluntly but that is just not correct and trying to retain part of the law for believers is exactly the kind of legalism that Paul warned of.

Nevertheless, even if these parts of the law were to be obeyed by believers today gentiles in America are not bound by the Law of Moses (1 cor 9:21).
 
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Warning people who are indulged in GLBT sin that God will cast them to Hell for homosexuality,unless they seek Jesus and repent of gay sin,is not a homophobia,but doing a way of love to your neighbor.Homophobia is when it comes to violence against sexually disoriented people instead of warning them regarding their gay sin.Opposing GLBT agenda is not a homophobia,too.It is a right way to protect our God given moral Judeo-Christian values,our families,our children and their future.Remember that gays mostly sick predators who pray on boys.Pedophiles are common among them.Remember Jesse Dirkhising of Arkansas tragedy.
 
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