God is gonna get us.

[Dr.Who]

what you mean its not just a left wing conspiracy to pretend people listen to him?

If someone were to say that a lot of people listen to him and that someone were on the left it and they colluded with someone to make that statement then I would suppose that it would mean that. I am not aware of any such conspiracy, just people who ignorantly believe that he is representative of Christianity in general.

 

[Openmind]

More arguable it indicates that you don't understand the bible as thoruoughly as you could - granted it is a complex book and understanding it requires effort.

the book of Leviticus is written for believing Jews and no others. If one is Jewish and chooses to follow the Jewish laws so be it but if one is not Jewish and does not choose to follow the Jewish laws then certain statements in Leviticus has no bearing on his life. Why would one find offense from a rule that is not intended to apply to him?

Leviticus in a passage very near to the one you quote says that it is an abomination to eat shrimp. Again for one who chooses to live the life of an observant Jew he can follow that rule. For everyone else it does not apply.

There are in fact a variety of laws in the bible; Levitical, Abrahamic, Mosaic, etc. One must understand the context of things first. People like Pat no doubt are more accountable for their errors since they claim to understand but do not.

That's funny! Isn't it Leviticus who is the main opponent of homosexuality?

So, if one believes in the Bible, and (Jew or not Jew) believes in Leviticus' writing, it is an abomination both to eat shrimps and to engage in homosexual sex?

Well that put things into perspective!

Now, is there a "hierarchy of evils" in Leviticus "you shoudn't?"

 

[ProudLefty]

That's funny! Isn't it Leviticus who is the main opponent of homosexuality?

So, if one believes in the Bible, and (Jew or not Jew) believes in Leviticus' writing, it is an abomination both to eat shrimps and to engage in homosexual sex?

Well that put things into perspective!

Now, is there a "hierarchy of evils" in Leviticus "you shoudn't?"

http://www.fishoutofwaterfilm.com/

This is a great film that discusses the places in the Bible where homosexuality is discussed. It clearly shows that the Bible, in no way, speaks against homosexuality.

 

[Openmind]

http://www.fishoutofwaterfilm.com/

This is a great film that discusses the places in the Bible where homosexuality is discussed. It clearly shows that the Bible, in no way, speaks against homosexuality.

Thanks, good link! Except that I don't want to buy the whole DVD, but the trailer was interesting!

Anyone, I sure don't need to be convinced!

 

[Dr.Who]

That's funny! Isn't it Leviticus who is the main opponent of homosexuality?

So, if one believes in the Bible, and (Jew or not Jew) believes in Leviticus' writing, it is an abomination both to eat shrimps and to engage in homosexual sex?

Well that put things into perspective!

Now, is there a "hierarchy of evils" in Leviticus "you shoudn't?"

Books like Matthew are named after the author. Books like Romans are named after the intended audience. Leviticus is named after the priestly clan aka, levites, the book is not named after a person called Leviticus. It is in large part a list of rules that the priests must obey. If one is not a priest then those parts written to a priest would not apply. It does however, include things written to a more general Jewish audience too.

There are only a handful of references to homosexuality in the entire bible, OT or NT. These references are in both the OT and the NT and there is not one part of the bible that is the main opponent of homosexuality. Even taking all the references together they often do not even speak to the kind of homosexuality that is in vogue today; they are more likely to apply to the kind of homosexuality in which a rich Roman would engage in sex with his boy slave - wrong on so many levels. What the bible really says about homosexuality is complex and somewhat vague. What is certain is that it is mostly ignored and no where admired - which is not saying much.

If homosexuality is not God's plan for those who follow Him then that would be as important as any other plan God has for his followers. Take the example of Jonah. God intended Jonah to preach to the Ninnevites but Jonah wanted to preach to a different group. It was wrong for Jonah to preach to the Jewish people because it was not God's plan for his life. But it would not be wrong for Peter to preach to the Jewish people because that was part of God's plan for his life. The OT is written to Jews (specifically Jews thousands of years ago). The NT was written to Jews and gentiles a couple of thousand years ago. Some parts apply to people outside of those audiences but some do not. Anh part that applies is just as important as any part that does not apply so there is no "hierarchy of evils" A Christian today who is self-righteous is sinning just as much as a Jew 5000 years ago who age shrimp who is sinning just as much as any descendant of Adam who commits murder. But not every descendant of Adam is sinning when he eats shrimp.

If a person thinks that Leviticus applies to his life when in reality it does not and he eats shrimp is he sinning? Certainly doing what one thinks to be wrong is wrong even if it is objectively right; the disobedient intent is still there.

What about the Gay person who is not Jewish and who is not a believer in God or the bible? It matters not what he does in the bedroom as his rejection of God puts him in the position of being judged for the sins that do apply to him. If he is sleeping with men and a murderer then he will be judged as a murderer. If he is sleeping with men and a cheat then he will be judged as a cheat. Of course the same is true of the man who is sleeping with woman and is murdering or cheating. IMO he (the gay man) should not worry about how he will be judged for his homosexual lifestyle until after he has accepted God. Then what he does in the bedroom will be between him and God. Before he accepts God he should worry about what he has done that he knows himself to be wrong.

 

[Openmind]

Books like Matthew are named after the author. Books like Romans are named after the intended audience. Leviticus is named after the priestly clan aka, levites, the book is not named after a person called Leviticus. It is in large part a list of rules that the priests must obey. If one is not a priest then those parts written to a priest would not apply. It does however, include things written to a more general Jewish audience too.

There are only a handful of references to homosexuality in the entire bible, OT or NT. These references are in both the OT and the NT and there is not one part of the bible that is the main opponent of homosexuality. Even taking all the references together they often do not even speak to the kind of homosexuality that is in vogue today; they are more likely to apply to the kind of homosexuality in which a rich Roman would engage in sex with his boy slave - wrong on so many levels. What the bible really says about homosexuality is complex and somewhat vague. What is certain is that it is mostly ignored and no where admired - which is not saying much.

If homosexuality is not God's plan for those who follow Him then that would be as important as any other plan God has for his followers. Take the example of Jonah. God intended Jonah to preach to the Ninnevites but Jonah wanted to preach to a different group. It was wrong for Jonah to preach to the Jewish people because it was not God's plan for his life. But it would not be wrong for Peter to preach to the Jewish people because that was part of God's plan for his life. The OT is written to Jews (specifically Jews thousands of years ago). The NT was written to Jews and gentiles a couple of thousand years ago. Some parts apply to people outside of those audiences but some do not. Anh part that applies is just as important as any part that does not apply so there is no "hierarchy of evils" A Christian today who is self-righteous is sinning just as much as a Jew 5000 years ago who age shrimp who is sinning just as much as any descendant of Adam who commits murder. But not every descendant of Adam is sinning when he eats shrimp.

If a person thinks that Leviticus applies to his life when in reality it does not and he eats shrimp is he sinning? Certainly doing what one thinks to be wrong is wrong even if it is objectively right; the disobedient intent is still there.

What about the Gay person who is not Jewish and who is not a believer in God or the bible? It matters not what he does in the bedroom as his rejection of God puts him in the position of being judged for the sins that do apply to him. If he is sleeping with men and a murderer then he will be judged as a murderer. If he is sleeping with men and a cheat then he will be judged as a cheat. Of course the same is true of the man who is sleeping with woman and is murdering or cheating. IMO he (the gay man) should not worry about how he will be judged for his homosexual lifestyle until after he has accepted God. Then what he does in the bedroom will be between him and God. Before he accepts God he should worry about what he has done that he knows himself to be wrong.

Thanks for taking the time. I didn't know much of that.

I believe in following the "God" within me. I believe in my innate intuition of what is right and what is wrong.

I have known several very religious Jewish men who were either bisexual or homosexuals, and who could without any guilt follow their inclination.

I have know the son of a Catholic Deacon, who ended up committing suicide, because he could not reconcile his father's overwhelming homophobia (based on his Catholic beliefs, at least openly!) with his own nature as a gay man.

I give very little credence to either the Bible or the New Testament, except as a guide. I certainly do not take anything literally!

Still, it is interesting to learn where all the ridiculous believes of some people come from.

So I thank you.

 

[Apathy]

More arguable it indicates that you don't understand the bible as thoruoughly as you could - granted it is a complex book and understanding it requires effort.

Now what is to stop me from saying this? "I have a better understanding of the bible and faith than you do. I have a personal relationship with Jesus that you can only wish to have. When I read the bible I am reading it inspired by the holy spirit so I can get the true message of God, and you simply don't understand."

the book of Leviticus is written for believing Jews and no others. If one is Jewish and chooses to follow the Jewish laws so be it but if one is not Jewish and does not choose to follow the Jewish laws then certain statements in Leviticus has no bearing on his life.

So cherry pick the verses you like? I can respect that very Christian of you.

Why would one find offense from a rule that is not intended to apply to him?

Maybe because the law reveals the true nature of your bigoted genocidal deity? The hatefulness of the law itself a non-issue what it says about your deity is, and you deity is offensive. Just as vile and repugnant as the WBC.

Leviticus in a passage very near to the one you quote says that it is an abomination to eat shrimp. Again for one who chooses to live the life of an observant Jew he can follow that rule. For everyone else it does not apply.

So the OT doesn't count and homosexuality is cool now? Jesus said nothing about homosexuality, so there is no more basis for you to condemn homosexuals/homosexual marriage than the eating of shellfish as a Christian. Unless you admit to cherry picking...

There are in fact a variety of laws in the bible; Levitical, Abrahamic, Mosaic, etc. One must understand the context of things first. People like Pat no doubt are more accountable for their errors since they claim to understand but do not.

Decent three different sets laws for me to cherry pick from? Sweetness!!!

 

[pocketfullofshells]

More arguable it indicates that you don't understand the bible as thoruoughly as you could - granted it is a complex book and understanding it requires effort.

the book of Leviticus is written for believing Jews and no others. If one is Jewish and chooses to follow the Jewish laws so be it but if one is not Jewish and does not choose to follow the Jewish laws then certain statements in Leviticus has no bearing on his life. Why would one find offense from a rule that is not intended to apply to him?

Leviticus in a passage very near to the one you quote says that it is an abomination to eat shrimp. Again for one who chooses to live the life of an observant Jew he can follow that rule. For everyone else it does not apply.

There are in fact a variety of laws in the bible; Levitical, Abrahamic, Mosaic, etc. One must understand the context of things first. People like Pat no doubt are more accountable for their errors since they claim to understand but do not.

So god was for it, but you think changed her mind? And Context...odd how come when ever someone brings up the Koran , Context gets thrown out the window but the bible is all about context? And in what context does, kill someone for working on the sabbath or is gay ...not mean something bad? was god doing stand up and just joking around? Maybe god had a few to many drinks?

Christians in general love to just pick and choose from the bible at convenience. of course thats probably best...if they did not, that would be one bad place to live...

 

[Apathy]

So god was for it, but you think changed her mind? And Context...odd how come when ever someone brings up the Koran , Context gets thrown out the window but the bible is all about context? And in what context does, kill someone for working on the sabbath or is gay ...not mean something bad? was god doing stand up and just joking around? Maybe god had a few to many drinks?

Christians in general love to just pick and choose from the bible at convenience. of course thats probably best...if they did not, that would be one bad place to live...

Well said... I may add that everything is literal until they get cornered then it's figurative.

 

[ProudLefty]

What is not clear to me is why there are so many differing Christian religions, and so many factions within each religion. There seems to be hundreds, if not thousands, of very specific, very different Christian factions. How come? Is the Bible that ambiguous?

 

[ThisTooShallPass]

What is not clear to me is why there are so many differing Christian religions, and so many factions within each religion. There seems to be hundreds, if not thousands, of very specific, very different Christian factions. How come? Is the Bible that ambiguous?

There are not differing Christian "religions." There are differing denominations. Some of them split off due to legitimate doctrinal differences, others simply due to regional and historical differences.

You are more aware of splintering among the Christians because I assume you live in a Christian nation and you are exposed to it every time you drive down a semi-busy street in a reasonably sized city. You have less exposure to the splintering of, say, the Muslim and Jewish faiths for that same reason.

 

[ProudLefty]

There are not differing Christian "religions." There are differing denominations. Some of them split off due to legitimate doctrinal differences, others simply due to regional and historical differences.

You are more aware of splintering among the Christians because I assume you live in a Christian nation and you are exposed to it every time you drive down a semi-busy street in a reasonably sized city. You have less exposure to the splintering of, say, the Muslim and Jewish faiths for that same reason.

Good point! All religions seem to suffer from this inability to decide what God wants. It amazes me that such an all powerful being is such a lousy communicator.

 

[Lagboltz]

Good point! All religions seem to suffer from this inability to decide what God wants. It amazes me that such an all powerful being is such a lousy communicator.

Had to laugh. However the people are great communicators, with probably over a million prayers per second.

 

[ProudLefty]

Had to laugh. However the people are great communicators, with probably over a million prayers per second.

Good question! Wait a minute... let me ask Him.

.

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.

.

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1.6 million per Earth second.

 

[PLC1]

Is the Bible that ambiguous?

Why, yes, as a matter of fact, it is. Why else would there be so much disagreement about what it says?

How could it possibly be unambiguous? It is a series of books (biblia) that were written by many different authors, mostly in languages now dead, over thousands of years.

We can't even agree on what the Second Amendment of the Constitution says, and it was written in English only a few hundred years ago.