Anti Wall st Protests

[Openmind]

Dogtowner - have you read The Spirit Level?

You probably haven't. It is the work of a couple of people from Cambridge Univeristy and it gathers punlic domain data on all of those indeces of citizen well being

Drug abuse
Alcohol abuse
Prison population
Recidivism
Mental Health
Suicide
Stress and Anxiety

etc

It then plots these against the distribution of wealth in all of the countries in the western world and what comes out is this

The actual wealth of your nation is much less important to citizen wellbeing than the distribution of the wealth

So rich countries like Japan that are wealthy but quite equal have much happier and healthier citizens than the US which is welathy but very unequal

Sweden is ralatively poor but still very happy because there is great equality wheras poor Portugal's citizens fare really badly and the wealth is very unequally spread

The book is very sober and very testable - read it and see if you can fault it

I couldn't.

The US is the worst country in the western world for inequality and for citizen well being

But then a walk down the streets of Baltimore would tell you that

Yes. I actually posted a video of a man exposing all those negative correlation between very large difference in wealth and all the social "evils" that increased as the gap between the wealthy and the rest widened.
But no one bothered to watch it. . .apparently "they don't like watching videos!" . . .especially when they are based on FACTUAL data and clearly expressed a truth that they don't want to hear.

But thank you for trying to bring this subject back up. I hope you succeed in raising some interest for this important study!

 

[Openmind]

Alias, I think I should be paid a decent living wage

I actually make significantly more than that although what i do for a living is utterly worthless

But that is the irony of it all

The less important what you do is the more you get paid for it

The really important jobs like nursing and teaching and manufacturing earn you relatively modest wages

Bankers are the ultimate example

They make nothing and they take nearly everything and anyone who supports them is either a banker or a half wit

You are correct, of course. And I believe we are beginning to experience a new awareness around the world about the damage done by great inequalities, however, it appears that the US is lagging behind for this ALSO!

The DAVOS meeting in Switzerland is a good example of the new awareness and concern about those inequalities and about the destructive, runaway form of Capitalism that too many in the US (especially among the GOP) continue to serve as a God. Billionaires are currently meeting with heads of states in Switzerland and discussing how to give new life (and new moral) to capitalism.

Thomas Enders, Chief Executive Officer of Airbus, talks during 'The Global Business Context' meeting. Leaders are being asked to urgently find ways to reform a capitalist system that has been described as 'outdated and crumbling.

Some 70 billionaires are joining more than 2,500 business and political leaders at the World Economic Forum’s annual meeting in Davos, Switzerland, this week, in a bid to give their views on how to boost the world's economy and political status. Many of the rich attendees have said that economic disparity needs to be addressed

Chastened leaders of the global business elite admitted that the Western free-market model has come up short and faces being shoved aside by emerging power state capitalism.

Some business leaders agree with the protesters that the financial community has behaved abominably, and say many demonstrators are serious people, who should be taken seriously.

All the above quotes come from

 

[steveox]

Lets face it,,,What has Washington done for us lately? They vote their pay raises but wont give us a pay raise. The only system give pay raises is WELFARE. The more Babies a woman has the more the Welfare system gives her.

 

[GenSeneca]

The DAVOS meeting in Switzerland is a good example of the new awareness and concern about those inequalities and about the destructive, runaway form of Capitalism that too many in the US (especially among the GOP) continue to serve as a God.

The primary basis of Capitalism is Individual Rights, the role of government under a Capitalist model is to equally protect the individual rights of all citizens. A Capitalist model does not allow government to provide bailouts, subsidies, tax breaks/incentives, or take any other action that would interfere with the free market or result in citizens being unequally treated at the hands of government.

The economic system your blaming for our country's hardships, whatever system that may be, is certainly not Capitalism, nor does it bear any resemblance to Capitalism.

 

[GenSeneca]

I agree $9 an hour should be federal standards.

Only $9? Why not $10, or better yet $15? If $15 is good, $20 is even better... Hell, it's a government mandate, go for $50. Why not?

 

[GenSeneca]

Not all Christians oppose justice for the poor.

What "justice" are the poor being denied?

 

[GenSeneca]

The minimum wage should be set at a rate which allows someone a dignified life in the area in which they work

Define your subjective use of the word "dignified" in the above statement... Then, when you tell us about all the "stuff" someone needs to be able to own/purchase in order to live a "dignified" life, perhaps we can have an actual conversation about how much it takes to accomplish that.

 

[Openmind]

The primary basis of Capitalism is Individual Rights, the role of government under a Capitalist model is to equally protect the individual rights of all citizens. A Capitalist model does not allow government to provide bailouts, subsidies, tax breaks/incentives, or take any other action that would interfere with the free market or result in citizens being unequally treated at the hands of government.

The economic system your blaming for our country's hardships, whatever system that may be, is certainly not Capitalism, nor does it bear any resemblance to Capitalism.

With all due respect, YOUR definition of what is or isn't "capitalism" seems to differ greatly from the opinion expressed at DAVOS by over 70 Billionaires who. . .obviously have had a long history of benefitting from "Capitalism."
Now, it may be that, unfortunately, your idealized and encapsulated "theory" of capitalism has disappeared over the last couple of decades, and what we are left with, what we have been struggling to overcome, what has brought the US (and many countries in the world) down to its knees has little to do with "capitalism," and on this we may agree.

The fact is that what most people today try to defend as "capitalism" and as the core of American spirit and eonomics has been so deformed that it no longer provide any advantages that were (for right or wrong) attached to the idealized idea of "American Capitalism."

Lobbyists, corporate subsidies, run away attempts to "create" economic instruments based on NOTHING but a psychological illusion have NOTHING to do with the original idea of Capitalism, but it has become the "flavor" of capitalism that is being so protected by the GOP that it has been allowed to destroy our markets, and to cause the crash of 2008, the high level unemployment, and the huge (and increasing) gap between the top 1% and the rest of the American people.

And that IS the type of capitalims that convention in Switzerland is beginning to look at (better late than ever) as detrimental to EVERYONE except a very few.

 

[dogtowner]

With all due respect, YOUR definition of what is or isn't "capitalism" seems to differ greatly from the opinion expressed at DAVOS by over 70 Billionaires who. . .obviously have had a long history of benefitting from "Capitalism."
Now, it may be that, unfortunately, your idealized and encapsulated "theory" of capitalism has disappeared over the last couple of decades, and what we are left with, what we have been struggling to overcome, what has brought the US (and many countries in the world) down to its knees has little to do with "capitalism," and on this we may agree.

The fact is that what most people today try to defend as "capitalism" and as the core of American spirit and eonomics has been so deformed that it no longer provide any advantages that were (for right or wrong) attached to the idealized idea of "American Capitalism."

Lobbyists, corporate subsidies, run away attempts to "create" economic instruments based on NOTHING but a psychological illusion have NOTHING to do with the original idea of Capitalism, but it has become the "flavor" of capitalism that is being so protected by the GOP that it has been allowed to destroy our markets, and to cause the crash of 2008, the high level unemployment, and the huge (and increasing) gap between the top 1% and the rest of the American people.

And that IS the type of capitalims that convention in Switzerland is beginning to look at (better late than ever) as detrimental to EVERYONE except a very few.

the answer to what government has brought is not more government

 

[Aus22]

Yesterday , The Australian Prime Minister was attack by Aboriginals . These have been occupying land in Canberra for 40 years. Unlike the anti Wall St Protestors they were allow to c=occupy park land. They launched a violent attack on the Prime Minister and Opposition leader when the thought they would be moved

 

[Openmind]

the answer to what government has brought is not more government

And the answer to what the (supposedly) "Free Market" has brought is NOT more manipulated "Free Market."

 

[dogtowner]

And the answer to what the (supposedly) "Free Market" has brought is NOT more manipulated "Free Market."

thats my point, if the government manipulates the market then its not free.

 

[Openmind]

thats my point, if the government manipulates the market then its not free.

But if the big corps manipulate the market, if Wall Street inventes unethical means to make more money and if their dishonesty is not checked by any regulations, you consider that it is"free?"

 

[dogtowner]

But if the big corps manipulate the market, if Wall Street inventes unethical means to make more money and if their dishonesty is not checked by any regulations, you consider that it is"free?"

that's the definition yes. the financial markets are heavily regulated yet for all that effort it made no difference. and for that matter there are none at fault based on who has gone to prison. I read an interesting opinion piece some time back that regulaton forced financial markets to become smart (where they were not before). the idea being that its basically a very simple business but that regulation forced it to get creative. the government is pretty unsuccessful at preventing trouble.

 

[GenSeneca]

70 billionaires go to a beach full of people. Not one single person there is using sunscreen. At the end of the day, all the people at the beach have bad sunburns. The 70 billionaires blame sunscreen while ignoring the fact it was never used. They further conclude there must be some problem with how the sunscreen is formulated and decide to meet in Davos to redisign its formulation. The media praises the billionaires for their compassion, trusts their wisdom on the subject as infallible, and eagerly shares the billionaires recommendation that people coat themselves in Crisco to protect themselves from the sun.