Worst President Ever?

[Bunz]

On the other hand, forcing a state to remain a part of the United States is kind of against the point, isn't it? Once a democracy loses the consent of its people to govern, what is it?

This is the crux of the whole thing right? Well an interesting side note, from statehood until the early 90s there was a fairly active peaceful secession movement in Alaska. Either to move to Canada or become and independant country. Known as the "Alaska independance party" has had quite a few members who were actually elected. Namely former Governor Wally Hickel, and long long long time state rep Carl Moses.
It is no secret that the feds told the leadership of that organization that a peaceful sucession just wouldnt happen. In fact one of its leaders, Joe Vogeler was murdered in some very suspicious circumstances.
The movement has largely faded from public view for the most part. It never came to a vote in Alaska, for a number of reasons but there was certainly a sizable number of people here who wanted out of the USA, and probably still do.
I am not convinced that AK could be an Independant country, but it is a novel idea.

 

[scottmusk@insightbb.com]

Johnson who put us in Veitnam

 

[PLC1]

This is the crux of the whole thing right? Well an interesting side note, from statehood until the early 90s there was a fairly active peaceful secession movement in Alaska. Either to move to Canada or become and independant country. Known as the "Alaska independance party" has had quite a few members who were actually elected. Namely former Governor Wally Hickel, and long long long time state rep Carl Moses.
It is no secret that the feds told the leadership of that organization that a peaceful sucession just wouldnt happen. In fact one of its leaders, Joe Vogeler was murdered in some very suspicious circumstances.
The movement has largely faded from public view for the most part. It never came to a vote in Alaska, for a number of reasons but there was certainly a sizable number of people here who wanted out of the USA, and probably still do.
I am not convinced that AK could be an Independant country, but it is a novel idea.

Alaska might be quite successful, having enormous natural resources and a small population.

I think California would be better off as an independent country as well. We'd have something like the sixth largest economy in the world, and not have the baggage of having to maintain a military presence all over the world. Since we joined the union of our own free will, it is logical that we should be able to leave the same way. We did, after all, leave Mexico and become independent without having to fight any nasty war to do it. Bring back the Bear Flag Republic!

 

[Rhodri]

Worst President Ever?....Nancy Reagan

 

[Bunz]

Johnson who put us in Veitnam

I dont disagree that Johnson wasnt a great President, but give credit where it was due. The American military presence in Vietnam began in 1950 under Truman, escalated by Eisenhower, escalated by Kennedy, Johnson poured troops into the area. I am not sure he actually had much choice if one looks at the situation he was facing at the time. But Nixon worked to end it. It took quite awhile, but either way, the American presence in Indochina was a 25 year effort and cant be placed at the foot of a single President.

 

[Bunz]

Alaska might be quite successful, having enormous natural resources and a small population.

I think California would be better off as an independent country as well. We'd have something like the sixth largest economy in the world, and not have the baggage of having to maintain a military presence all over the world. Since we joined the union of our own free will, it is logical that we should be able to leave the same way. We did, after all, leave Mexico and become independent without having to fight any nasty war to do it. Bring back the Bear Flag Republic!

Certainly nothing against you PLC, but if California got out of the US. My feelings wouldnt be hurt

Again, the issue is that considering what California is, as the most poppulous state, there is not a realistic scenario I can see this being done peacefully.
As Alaska is too resource wealthy and its location is to strategic place in the world for a peaceful separation to happen.

 

[PLC1]

Certainly nothing against you PLC, but if California got out of the US. My feelings wouldnt be hurt

Again, the issue is that considering what California is, as the most poppulous state, there is not a realistic scenario I can see this being done peacefully.
As Alaska is too resource wealthy and its location is to strategic place in the world for a peaceful separation to happen.

That's interesting you should say that about California. There is a poster from Texas on another forum who said the same thing. I believe his term for California was "not worth a bucket of warm spit."

We would most certainly take a lot of Democratic electors with us, wouldn't we? This must be the biggest blue state in the union.

But, of course, independence is just a pipe dream for the reasons you state.

 

[Bunz]

That's interesting you should say that about California. There is a poster from Texas on another forum who said the same thing. I believe his term for California was "not worth a bucket of warm spit."

We would most certainly take a lot of Democratic electors with us, wouldn't we? This must be the biggest blue state in the union.

But, of course, independence is just a pipe dream for the reasons you state.

I meant it as a joke of course. I do see California as being actually a very vital part of the country just as every other part is. I shouldnt make a crude joke at the expense of 35million people. My apologies.

It mostly comes from some bad experiences in California. Well entirely LA. But I have actually seen quite a bit of California and there are some pretty areas.
The redwoods are neat, and the amount of farms is impressive. I just cant imagine how the millions of people live the way they do in the greater LA area.

 

[PLC1]

I meant it as a joke of course. I do see California as being actually a very vital part of the country just as every other part is. I shouldnt make a crude joke at the expense of 35million people. My apologies.

It mostly comes from some bad experiences in California. Well entirely LA. But I have actually seen quite a bit of California and there are some pretty areas.
The redwoods are neat, and the amount of farms is impressive. I just cant imagine how the millions of people live the way they do in the greater LA area.

I can't either, really. LA is a long way from my world.

 

[Dr House]

No, this is not a thread about George Bush. He's just mildly bad. I'd like to nominate :

FDR - brought communism to America.
Wilson - brought imperial hubris to America.
Lincoln - brought fascism to America.

FDR all the way. Though the other two you mentioned do deserve an honorable mention IMO.

FDR the worst? Yeah nothing like leading the country out of the greatest economic situation it has ever seen.

FDR did nothing but prolong the Depression. Without his retarded Keynesian policies (supply sabotage, anyone?), the Depression would've been over in less than four years. Instead it showed no signs of ending until after the man had met his maker.


-Dr House

 

[SW85]

Grant? Harding? Andrew Johnson? Taylor? Pierce? Buchanan?

Harding, I think, is underrated. Sure his government was corrupt (though he, himself, appears to have been clean), but he reversed the brutal excesses of the Wilson administration (which is one of the worst in my book) and was one of the louder voices for racial integration at a time when it was unpopular in both parties and pretty much everywhere in the country.

My conception of "worst President" scales thus: with the positively good at the top (Washington, Lincoln), those who merely didn't foul up good times second (Reagan, Harding, a few of the Reconstruction and post-Reconstruction Presidents), the feckless and incompetent third (Pierce, Buchanan), and the positively destructive last. I count Wilson among that last bunch, along with Teddy Roosevelt and a small smattering of others.

 

[Bunz]

FDR did nothing but prolong the Depression. Without his retarded Keynesian policies (supply sabotage, anyone?), the Depression would've been over in less than four years. Instead it showed no signs of ending until after the man had met his maker.

You do realize of course that his new deal policies set in place the infastructure, which lead to manufacturing capacity, which allowed for military assistance to our allies, which then in turn after America entered the war, allowed for massive and unprecedented growth and prosperity. It set the tone of the second half of the 20th century where America enjoyed economic prosperity unlike any seen in history.

 

[Bunz]

I can't either, really. LA is a long way from my world.

Yeah, I hear that. In 93 my family went to see an LA kings game in the old Forum, we got turned around a bit and ended up being lost in Inglewood/Crenshaw at night less than a year after the riots. For a kid from Alaska, it was very scary. Then I got pickpocketed at LAX. Vommitted at Disneyland...bad experiences in LA.

 

[Libsmasher]

Yeah, I hear that. In 93 my family went to see an LA kings game in the old Forum, we got turned around a bit and ended up being lost in Inglewood/Crenshaw at night less than a year after the riots. For a kid from Alaska, it was very scary. Then I got pickpocketed at LAX. Vommitted at Disneyland...bad experiences in LA.

You should check it out now - illegal aliens moving into watts, blacks and mexicans are now killing each other on the street in broad daylight - this used to be done at night and for a perceived gang affiliation - now you just have to be the wrong skin color. Los Angeles, anaheim, garden grove, santa ana, and many other places in southern california are essentially part of mexico. The destruction of society by illegal aliens down here, clear and obvious, is ignorable by libs who live in northern states - of course, the lib media is not about to give you a clue.

 

[Libsmasher]

You do realize of course that his new deal policies set in place the infastructure, which lead to manufacturing capacity, which allowed for military assistance to our allies, which then in turn after America entered the war, allowed for massive and unprecedented growth and prosperity. It set the tone of the second half of the 20th century where America enjoyed economic prosperity unlike any seen in history.

That's nonsense - factories had to be completely re-tooled to make war materiel after the war started.