Worst President Ever?

[Bunz]

I agree with the first point, but with respect to Carter's do-nothing performance, the fact that everybody seems to forget Gerald Ford speaks volumes!

For a long time I was not at all a Ford fan. But I think this was due to ignorance on my part. It wasnt until I managed to get a hold of his autobiography. He still isnt my favorite, but it made me appreciate just how messed up the situation we fell into was and he did the best he could as being a place holder President.
He wasnt perfect and some may be critical of the Nixon pardon, but I think it was the right thing to do after hearing his reasoning behind it. Lets just say I dont envy Ford. I, nor very few people in this country could have done what he did in keeping a very torn republic together. Certainly not a great President, but not a horrible one.
It is also interesting to note the players and personalities he mentions in a book published in 1979, and its relevance to what is happening today.

 

[PLC1]

What are the criteria for deciding who was the "worst"?

Each president had a unique set of challenges to face.

Take Carter for example. He faced a worldwide economic crisis brought on not by any of his policies, but by OPEC. The US faced a prime rate that went to 21%. The price of gasoline went up about 400%. Today's economic problems pale in comparison.

Nevertheless, the pres has little or nothing to do with the economic situation.

FDR promised two chickens in every pot, at a time when having any chicken in your pot was considered a great blessing. His "socialistic" ideas were passed by that great body we seem to forget when judging presidents, you know, the Congress. Whether it was WWII or changes in economic policy that brought us out of the depression is a matter of debate, but see above: The pres has little to do with the economy.

Reagan is remembered as the great conservative. When he was governor of California, he signed into law the biggest tax increase in the history of the state. As president, his economic policies proved to be the start of the monumental debt we see today. Of course, the Congress has the purse strings, not the president.

Our current government is busily spending the nation into the poorhouse. It could be argued that the out of control spending is the fault of Bush II, but, then, there is that great forgotten entity, the Congress. the same can be said for the ill advised military adventure in Iraq: Congress did authorize it.

Maybe the president isn't as important or as powerful as we'd like to believe.

As for who is the worst, let's just all hope it won't be the one we inaguarate in November, but if it is, remember:

The president isn't as powerful nor as important as many would like to believe.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

A real Democrat does not vote Republican. Ever hear of the Supreme Court? It's already stacked conservative and a moderately liberal Justice Stevens is 88 years old. The next president will have at least 2 upcoming openings to fill. With McCain, you'll get more like Scalia or Alito. Seven of the present nine Justices have been chose by Republicans. We don't need any more.

Discontinue your sniveling and act like a Democrat, either that or stop claiming you are one, because a real Democrat doesn't give over the Supreme Court to Repubs.

A real American never votes party line, just to vote for the party. You vote for best leader who you think will do the best for the Nation..Not just for your party because they are your party.

 

[Libsmasher]

The President is the leader. They take the heat or the praise. It was the case then, as it is now. I think most scholars would agree that the New Deal helped improve the economy signifigantly. His policies basically created the middle class, as it hadnt really existed on large scale before.

No, his policies created poor people. It was precisely government meddling in the economy that created the depression in the first place .The middle class existed before the depression - the depression made them homeless.

The SEC, FDIC, and TVA are still quite relavent to this day.

The TVA has always produced electricity at a price 20% more expensive than private producers, and FDIC was the ultimate cause of the savings and loan scandal in the 1990's. Some people have this irrational fixation on the idea that whatever is wrong, government can "fix" it, whereas the reality is, as Reagan said, that government is more often than not the problem, not the solution.

As for the generals comments, the generals dont make policy the President does. The Manhattan project was approved by FDR, among the advance in many other weapons. You give far to little credit to FDR.

You forget the vietnam war - Johnson put a bunch of ivy league civilians in charge of the war, who micromanaged it down to the platoon level - naturally, we lost the war. OF COURSE presidents decide the broad goals. As for the Manhattan project, it was a no-brainer - FDR acted after albert einstein, at the urging of Leo Szilard, made the danger clear to FDR.

In most studies on the subject, FDR is in the top 3 Presidents of all time, at the very least, the top 5. You put him last. Do you assume you are more wise than the academics that put those together? Or possibly your blind partisanship taking ahold.

No I didn't put him last, I said Jimmy Carter was last. As for FDR's ranking, you're using the argumentum ad authoritatem fallacy - OF COURSE historians, almost all libs nowadays, will rank him that way.

 

[Truth-Bringer]

No, this is not a thread about George Bush. He's just mildly bad. I'd like to nominate :

FDR - brought communism to America.
Wilson - brought imperial hubris to America.
Lincoln - brought fascism to America.

I see we have a gentleman and a scholar in our midsts... All worthy nominations.

We had a discussion about this earlier. I explain why Lincoln was a fraud here, and provide evidence of Wilson's folly here.

At the end of that thread, I changed my choice for worst President to Lincoln:

"if you want to rank by precedence, I might have to change my vote for Lincoln as the worst President instead of Wilson, because Lincoln's temporary Income Tax, greenbacks, and other usurpations laid the groundwork for Wilson's permanent changes."

 

[PLC1]

I see we have a gentleman and a scholar in our midsts... All worthy nominations.

We had a discussion about this earlier. I explain why Lincoln was a fraud here, and provide evidence of Wilson's folly here.

At the end of that thread, I changed my choice for worst President to Lincoln:

"if you want to rank by precedence, I might have to change my vote for Lincoln as the worst President instead of Wilson, because Lincoln's temporary Income Tax, greenbacks, and other usurpations laid the groundwork for Wilson's permanent changes."

And yet, were it not for Lincoln's leadership, the US would be broken into at least two different countries, and perhaps more. The civil war stopped the balkinization of the United States.

 

[Coyote]

It's too soon to pass judgement on "W" - though I suspect he will be rated among the worst.

People who rate Clinton among the worst don't know history well. Rating "worst" simpy upon ideology and not performance is also foolish.

I think among the worst would be Buchannon.

 

[KingClovis]

Clinton was and remains a criminal at heart. For every good thing he did, he did ten bad. Sorry. He's a crook.

 

[Napoleon]

It's a tie.

1. Abraham Lincoln - The only dictator in the history of the United States.

2. Richard Nixon - During his campaign, he lobbied the South Vietnamese to stay out of the peace talks which was in direct violation of the policy set by then President Johnson. He sent tens of thousands of Americans to their deaths for his own personal political gain.

 

[Bunz]

Clinton was and remains a criminal at heart. For every good thing he did, he did ten bad. Sorry. He's a crook.

I am not a fan of the man. His legal incident is what it is. I think it is often overlooked that Presidents almost universally, are morally flexible to some extent or another. I dont think the man is a crook, nor do I think Bush is evil or a crook himself. Or if by definition, Clinton is a crook, then every President we have had is probably a crook.

 

[Bunz]

1. Abraham Lincoln - The only dictator in the history of the United States.

He was not a dictator by any reasonable use of the term. Without Lincoln we probably would not have the United States in its current form. We can play what if all day long. But either way, I dont disagree with your part about Nixon.

 

[Bunz]

No, his policies created poor people. It was precisely government meddling in the economy that created the depression in the first place .The middle class existed before the depression - the depression made them homeless.

Yeah, and vast regional areas of America went from rural poor when he took office and less than a generation later were fully mobilized, with minimal unemployment, massive growth and improvement in the everyday lives of most Americans. His policies set the groundwork for the prosperity modern America enjoys. If FDR had not been re-elected in 1936, America could have taken a very different course in world history.

The TVA has always produced electricity at a price 20% more expensive than private producers, and FDIC was the ultimate cause of the savings and loan scandal in the 1990's.

Where were the private producers back in 1934? None of them had the ability to build the necessary infastructure, on the scale needed. The TVA did much more than produce electricity. Flood control and irrigation and allowed that whole region to be modernized. I am not going to get into what the TVA became. But there is little question in my mind, it was the right move to ensure growth and output from a region at the time.
Get the public infastructure available so that everyone benefits.

No I didn't put him last, I said Jimmy Carter was last. As for FDR's ranking, you're using the argumentum ad authoritatem fallacy - OF COURSE historians, almost all libs nowadays, will rank him that way.

Whose ranking should I use then? Yours? Are you a historical scholar?
Rush's? Or maybe Hannity's?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_rankings_of_United_States_Presidents
Because your not a lib, does that make you know more than them?

 

[Truth-Bringer]

FDR the worst? Yeah nothing like leading the country out of the greatest economic situation it has ever seen.

First of all, the government caused the Great Depression, and the current chairman of the Federal Reserve admits that the Fed was the main cause. Secondly, FDR didn't "lead the country out of it." His policies made it worse:

How FDR's New Deal Harmed Millions of Poor People

FDR Policies Prolonged Great Depression For Years

Hoover?

Hoover was a collectivist statist also, just like FDR. He was a terrible President as well.

 

[Truth-Bringer]

And yet, were it not for Lincoln's leadership, the US would be broken into at least two different countries, and perhaps more.

Irrelevant.

"...Besides, if it should become the great interest of those nations to separate from this, if their happiness should depend on it so strongly as to induce them to go through that convulsion, why should the Atlantic States dread it? But especially why should we, their present inhabitants, take side in such a question?...The future inhabitants of the Atlantic & Missipi [sic] States will be our sons. We leave them in distinct but bordering establishments. We think we see their happiness in their union, & we wish it. Events may prove it otherwise; and if they see their interest in separation, why should we take side with our Atlantic rather than our Missipi descendants? It is the elder and the younger son differing. God bless them both, & keep them in union, if it be for their good, but separate them, if it be better." - Thomas Jefferson

"Whether we remain in one confederacy, or form into Atlantic and Mississippi confederacies, I believe not very important to the happiness of either part. Those of the western confederacy will be as much our children & descendants as those of the eastern, and I feel myself as much identified with that country, in future time, as with this; and did I now foresee a separation at some future day, yet I should feel the duty & the desire to promote the western interests as zealously as the eastern, doing all the good for both portions of our future family which should fall within my power." - Thomas Jefferson

 

[PLC1]

Irrelevant.

"...Besides, if it should become the great interest of those nations to separate from this, if their happiness should depend on it so strongly as to induce them to go through that convulsion, why should the Atlantic States dread it? But especially why should we, their present inhabitants, take side in such a question?...The future inhabitants of the Atlantic & Missipi [sic] States will be our sons. We leave them in distinct but bordering establishments. We think we see their happiness in their union, & we wish it. Events may prove it otherwise; and if they see their interest in separation, why should we take side with our Atlantic rather than our Missipi descendants? It is the elder and the younger son differing. God bless them both, & keep them in union, if it be for their good, but separate them, if it be better." - Thomas Jefferson

"Whether we remain in one confederacy, or form into Atlantic and Mississippi confederacies, I believe not very important to the happiness of either part. Those of the western confederacy will be as much our children & descendants as those of the eastern, and I feel myself as much identified with that country, in future time, as with this; and did I now foresee a separation at some future day, yet I should feel the duty & the desire to promote the western interests as zealously as the eastern, doing all the good for both portions of our future family which should fall within my power." - Thomas Jefferson

I see. Keeping the nation together as a unit is "irrelevant" to whether Lincoln was the worst president. Dang, what a great analysis of history.